What to do if ur boss is openly hostile

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  • #614884

    GolemGorilla
    Member

    What is the best thing to do if ur boss is openly hostile to Frumkeit?

    #1060257

    TheGoq
    Participant

    How do you know frumkeit is the reason he does not like you?

    #1060258

    Joseph
    Participant

    Report him to the EEOC for workplace discrimination.

    #1060259

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    How did he become your boss?

    #1060260

    GolemGorilla
    Member

    The Goq How do you know frumkeit is the reason he does not like you?

    My boss donated land and money to create a JCC Campus, and made and an invitation to all the synagogues and temples in the community except for the orthodox shul, that they would for free get a building on the JCC campus, when the orthodox rabbi of the orthodox shul approached him and said the orthodox shul would give him $100,000 to have a building also on the campus, he responded by saying this to him ” in ??????? will I ever allow an orthodox shul to have a buliding on my JCC campus”.

    #1060261

    GolemGorilla
    Member

    RebYidd23 How did he become your boss?

    I am a top computer engineer at the third largest computer company in the world.

    #1060262

    GolemGorilla
    Member

    Lior Report him to the EEOC for workplace discrimination.

    I don’t thing it would be practically for me to report on him, because he is the CEO of the third largest computer company in the world.

    #1060263

    frumnotyeshivish
    Participant

    In this case it doesn’t seem that there was any workplace issue. Anyone who has a boss that isn’t frum could feel the same way: “my boss doesn’t wear a yarmulka and is therefore hostile to frumkeit.”

    Why does it affect your work? In other words: how is it in any way relevant that this guy is your boss?

    #1060264

    Reb Golem Gorilla (is that what G&G stands for?),

    Your added comment that he is a yid and an ‘affiliated’ (perhaps heavily so) yid is a major difference.

    Though I have not personally dealt with one in a business setting, they are unfortunately notoriously the hardest because you stand as a representative against who they are (or so they think).

    Another important distinction is how long has he been your boss. Did you move into a higher position and now have him as your boss – or switched companies – or this is a long standing problem.

    My suggestion (if it is relatively new relationship or gig) is stick to your Torah guns. Find reasonable, healthy parameters for your frumkeit vis-a-vis what food you eat (and how you attain said food), how to fit in mincha into your schedule, how many hours before Shabbos to leave, your Chol HaMoed/Purim/Fast Days schedule etc. Figure out what you are comfortable with (probably good to include your Rav and wife in the brainstorming), and just do it. Keep at it, do your thing, and of course do a great job at your job. Of course, that is easier said then done – but if you have come to the conclusion that you are reasonable (and you are), and you are who you are (and they technically can’t stop you) – then that’s that. Over time, I assume that the tensions will mellow, and perhaps a mutual respect can develop. Reb GG does this, I don’t like it, but what I am supposed to do about it.

    Another thing is be aware of your boss’s life. There could be a time that comes up where you can slip in a nice thought or what have you – and it could melt the ice very quickly. In addition things likea fresh box hamentaschen on (or around) Purim, Happy New Years cards on Rosh HaShana etc. might be taken the wrong way, but if done without any sense of frummyness also might over time be a good way to connect.

    Hatzlacha,

    DQB

    #1060265

    BarryLS1
    Participant

    GolemGorilla: You didn’t say he is difficult on you,just that he is hostile to Frumkeit. If that is so, set the right example that he may come to understand that his judgement is wrong. He did hire you, or allow your hire, didn’t he?

    Most of these guys, who are hostile, do it out of guilt. At issue here, for the sake of your job, how does he treat you? Just don’t compromise your principles, That would just show him that we’re fakers. Just be mentchlach about what and how you do things and be respectful. He may come around.

    #1060266

    akuperma
    Participant

    Re: How to deal with a boss who is hostile to frumkeit

    1. Do you job very well. Legally marginal employees are protected, but being a valued employee is a better strategy.

    2. Be consistent and open about halacha.

    3. Don’t try to pull anything (e.g. if you take off during the summer to go to the country, don’t even think about taking off hol ha-Moed or other days that don’t have a prohibition of melachas). Be willing to come in super-early and to work super-late to make up time. Be the one anxious to cover on Sundays (or Saturday night ) and Thanksgiving and their religious holidays.

    4. If that fails, you can file a complaint against the company with the EEOC of the local equivalent. If you have hired an attorney, he/she can advise you on the details. Many large cities in the US have frum organizations that can help.

    5. The CEO of a corporation is not relevant since you are working for the corporation, not the CEO. His personal animosity doesn’t matter; what the corporation does is what matters. Remember that most CEO’s are employees, albeit rich ones. If you are high enough in the corporation that you have anything to do with the CEO, the local frum legal community may now a member of the Board of Directors who can help.

    6. If it comes to suing, large corporations have “deep pockets”, meaning that lawyers love to sue them since if they win there is a big payday (for the lawyers). The bigger, the better.

    #1060267

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    What he does in his personal life is his business. As long as he leaves his personal preferences at the door leave it at that.

    Besides it seems you heard about his donations from the newspaper or some outside source and not from him directly

    And do not in any way preach even indirectly to him, Just like you are entitled to your freedom of relgion, so is he

    #1060268

    flatbusher
    Participant

    Hostility by a boss could mean he wants to fire you. Maybe you just want to meet with him and tell him you feel he has become hostile and you would like to know what you can do to improve your relationship with him

    #1060269

    oomis
    Participant

    Unless I misunderstand, you appear to have no grounds for complaint. Is your boss hostile to YOU for being frum, or did he just refuse to accommodate a frum shul in the same way as the non-frum? Believe it or not, that may legally be his prerogative. He cannot treat you badly for being religious, but he had no obligation to treat other religious people the way you want him to. It could be that you might have grounds for complaint that he created a hostile work environment, but honestly, I don’t think it will fly. Obviously I may not have the whole picture here, but based on what I read and understood, it feels like you can’t do too much.

    #1060270

    GolemGorilla
    Member

    Daniel Q Blog Reb Golem Gorilla (is that what G&G stands for?),

    Your added comment that he is a yid and an ‘affiliated’ (perhaps heavily so) yid is a major difference.

    Though I have not personally dealt with one in a business setting, they are unfortunately notoriously the hardest because you stand as a representative against who they are (or so they think).

    Another important distinction is how long has he been your boss. Did you move into a higher position and now have him as your boss – or switched companies – or this is a long standing problem.

    My suggestion (if it is relatively new relationship or gig) is stick to your Torah guns. Find reasonable, healthy parameters for your frumkeit vis-a-vis what food you eat (and how you attain said food), how to fit in mincha into your schedule, how many hours before Shabbos to leave, your Chol HaMoed/Purim/Fast Days schedule etc. Figure out what you are comfortable with (probably good to include your Rav and wife in the brainstorming), and just do it. Keep at it, do your thing, and of course do a great job at your job. Of course, that is easier said then done – but if you have come to the conclusion that you are reasonable (and you are), and you are who you are (and they technically can’t stop you) – then that’s that. Over time, I assume that the tensions will mellow, and perhaps a mutual respect can develop. Reb GG does this, I don’t like it, but what I am supposed to do about it.

    Another thing is be aware of your boss’s life. There could be a time that comes up where you can slip in a nice thought or what have you – and it could melt the ice very quickly. In addition things likea fresh box hamentaschen on (or around) Purim, Happy New Years cards on Rosh HaShana etc. might be taken the wrong way, but if done without any sense of frummyness also might over time be a good way to connect.

    Hatzlacha,

    DQB

    Yes, my boss is conservative jewish, and he says to me ” Orthodox Jews are backwards”, besides that when he gave me and all the other employees are annual hoilday bonus, he gave us for it, one large slice of treif pizza, a can of soda pop, and a few pieces of candy, when I and all the other Orthodox Jews requested that he get us a kosher slice of pizza, to accommodate are kashrus need’s, he refused to do so.

    #1060271

    midwesterner
    Participant

    So the CEO of the third largest computer company in the world is depriving you of a whole slice of kosher pizza? Big deal! (If your annual bonus is really just a slice of pizza and a can of soda, maybe you should try somewhere else.)

    There seems to be some disputes in how to define who is the third largest computer company in the world, after Samsung and Apple. Some say Lenovo, others say Xiaomi. Both are based in China and both have Chinese CEOs.

    #1060272

    GolemGorilla
    Member

    akuperma Re: How to deal with a boss who is hostile to frumkeit

    1. Do you job very well. Legally marginal employees are protected, but being a valued employee is a better strategy.

    2. Be consistent and open about halacha.

    3. Don’t try to pull anything (e.g. if you take off during the summer to go to the country, don’t even think about taking off hol ha-Moed or other days that don’t have a prohibition of melachas). Be willing to come in super-early and to work super-late to make up time. Be the one anxious to cover on Sundays (or Saturday night ) and Thanksgiving and their religious holidays.

    4. If that fails, you can file a complaint against the company with the EEOC of the local equivalent. If you have hired an attorney, he/she can advise you on the details. Many large cities in the US have frum organizations that can help.

    5. The CEO of a corporation is not relevant since you are working for the corporation, not the CEO. His personal animosity doesn’t matter; what the corporation does is what matters. Remember that most CEO’s are employees, albeit rich ones. If you are high enough in the corporation that you have anything to do with the CEO, the local frum legal community may now a member of the Board of Directors who can help.

    6. If it comes to suing, large corporations have “deep pockets”, meaning that lawyers love to sue them since if they win there is a big payday (for the lawyers). The bigger, the better.

    I have been working for my boss since 1986, I have won the employee of the year award consistently for the past 29 years almost now, I infact created the key computer chip in his computer’s, that’s worth billions of dollars.

    #1060273

    GolemGorilla
    Member

    midwesterner So the CEO of the third largest computer company in the world is depriving you of a whole slice of kosher pizza? Big deal! (If your annual bonus is really just a slice of pizza and a can of soda, maybe you should try somewhere else.)

    There seems to be some disputes in how to define who is the third largest computer company in the world, after Samsung and Apple. Some say Lenovo, others say Xiaomi. Both are based in China and both have Chinese CEOs.

    My boss just gave all the employees a large slice of treif pizza, a can of soda pop, and a few pieces of candy for this year’s holiday bonus, my boss usually gives all the employees money for the annual holiday bonus, but this year my boss decided to go cheap, because company profit’s were down, Dell is the third largest computer company in the world, the CEO is Jewish.

    #1060274

    akuperma
    Participant

    GolemGorilla: so what is the employer doing?

    There is no legal requirement to provide kosher junk food at meetings or special events. You can survive without them. Actually, when they bring kosher junk food I suggest they are trying to assasinate me. If it involved business travel (e.g. not covering the cost of bring kosher MREs on a trip to an area with no kosher restaurants, while offereing to cover the cost of restaurants for other employees), or even lunch at work (assuming a rujle prohibiting bringing food from home), it would be an issue.

    A bonus is discriminatory only if you could show a pattern of bias that fell into one of the traditional categories. While private sector firms sometimes give end of the year bonuses, most employers do not, and by definition, no one has a right to them.

    #1060276

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Are you that important?

    #1060278

    GolemGorilla
    Member

    GolemGorilla: akuperma so what is the employer doing?

    There is no legal requirement to provide kosher junk food at meetings or special events. You can survive without them. Actually, when they bring kosher junk food I suggest they are trying to assasinate me. If it involved business travel (e.g. not covering the cost of bring kosher MREs on a trip to an area with no kosher restaurants, while offereing to cover the cost of restaurants for other employees), or even lunch at work (assuming a rujle prohibiting bringing food from home), it would be an issue.

    A bonus is discriminatory only if you could show a pattern of bias that fell into one of the traditional categories. While private sector firms sometimes give end of the year bonuses, most employers do not, and by definition, no one has a right to them.

    U are kinda right, but still my boss said to my face that ” Orthodox Jews are backwards”.

    #1060279

    Mammele
    Participant

    Why do I have this nagging thought that GolemGorilla once posted under Rebbitzen GoldenpickaNicerScreenName?

    I just had to air this…

    #1060280

    yytz
    Participant

    It sounds like he’s not really discriminating against you in the sense of treating your poorly, not giving your raises, etc. If that were the case I would simply try to find another job.

    In the meantime the best you can do is be a kiddush Hashem. He thinks frum Jews are backwards. But if your attitude and behavior is better than his, then perhaps he will rethink his hostility, and he will be open to taking on more observance (and even perhaps realizing the error of his heterodox ways).

    So do a great job, be super respectful to everyone, refrain from expressing any conservative political opinions (which will probably just make him hate you and stereotype frum Jews more), etc. Pray to Hashem in your own words that you can be a kiddush Hashem, and that he changes his attitudes. Hatzlacha!

    #1060281

    oomis
    Participant

    Just do your job. Unless he personally discriminates against YOU for being frum (and you would have to have proof of that said discrimination), you have no recourse. HE IS THE BOSS. If you cannot live with the thought of how he treats OTHER people who happen to NOT be employed by him, you are free to look for another job. In an ideal world, you would be able to kindly give him some mussar and he would miraculously change his ways. Not gonna happen. And jobs are not that easy to come by. Just do your job with dignity and make a Kiddush Hashem by being a good Yid and a good employee.

    #1060282

    GolemGorilla
    Member

    yytz It sounds like he’s not really discriminating against you in the sense of treating your poorly, not giving your raises, etc. If that were the case I would simply try to find another job.

    In the meantime the best you can do is be a kiddush Hashem. He thinks frum Jews are backwards. But if your attitude and behavior is better than his, then perhaps he will rethink his hostility, and he will be open to taking on more observance (and even perhaps realizing the error of his heterodox ways).

    So do a great job, be super respectful to everyone, refrain from expressing any conservative political opinions (which will probably just make him hate you and stereotype frum Jews more), etc. Pray to Hashem in your own words that you can be a kiddush Hashem, and that he changes his attitudes. Hatzlacha!

    My boss is a republican, he even gave $250,000 to former Prez George W. Bush’s reelection campaign.

    #1060283

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Why on earth (or otherwise) are you quoting the whole of what anyone else posts before responding?

    #1060284

    GolemGorilla
    Member

    Mammele Why do I have this nagging thought that GolemGorilla once posted under Rebbitzen GoldenpickaNicerScreenName?

    I just had to air this…

    I am not RebbitzenGoldenpickaNicer.

    #1060285

    cv
    Participant

    “My boss is a republican, he even gave $250,000 to former Prez George W. Bush’s reelection campaign.”

    **

    1. Everyone has a right to spend his money how he pleased.

    2. No one obligated to provide kosher food to his employee. I don’t think kosher meals were the part of agreement, when company hired you. Bring your own food if you have a lunch together with co-workers and don’t make a big deal from it.

    #1060286

    Mammele
    Participant

    Accepted. But somehow I still doubt you work for Dell.

    #1060287

    GolemGorilla
    Member

    Mammele Accepted. But somehow I still doubt you work for Dell.

    I work for Dell.

    #1060288

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    GolemGorilla

    Mammele Accepted. But somehow I still doubt you work for Dell.

    I work for Dell.

    Why on earth (or otherwise) are you quoting the whole of what anyone else posts before responding?

    #1060289

    GolemGorilla
    Member

    GolemGorilla

    Mammele Accepted. But somehow I still doubt you work for Dell.

    I work for Dell.

    RebYidd23 Why on earth (or otherwise) are you quoting the whole of what anyone else posts before responding?

    So that they will know that I am responding back to the comment they made to me.

    #1060290

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    GolemGorilla, you still don’t have to quote the whole thing.

    And if you do, italicize it or put it in “quotes”.

    You don’t have to copy and paste.

    #1060291

    GolemGorilla
    Member

    GolemGorilla, RebYidd23 you still don’t have to quote the whole thing.

    And if you do, italicize it or put it in “quotes”.

    You don’t have to copy and paste.

    I will try.

    #1060292

    yehudayona
    Participant

    This whole thread is fishy. While Michael Dell did donate land to the Austin Jewish community, there is a Modern Orthodox congregation on campus (with a YCT graduate as rabbi, FWIW). I also find it hard to believe that Dell would go from giving cash bonuses to giving one slice of pizza and some candy. If they decided they couldn’t afford bonuses, they wouldn’t give anything.

    One other thing: calling Dell the third largest computer company is using a rather outdated definition of a computer company. It’s apparently based on Gartner’s ranking of “the annual worldwide market share of personal computer vendors includes desktop computers, laptop computers and netbooks, but not tablet computers.”

    #1060293

    GolemGorilla
    Member

    yehudayona “This whole thread is fishy. While Michael Dell did donate land to the Austin Jewish community, there is a Modern Orthodox congregation on campus (with a YCT graduate as rabbi, FWIW). I also find it hard to believe that Dell would go from giving cash bonuses to giving one slice of pizza and some candy. If they decided they couldn’t afford bonuses, they wouldn’t give anything.

    One other thing: calling Dell the third largest computer company is using a rather outdated definition of a computer company. It’s apparently based on Gartner’s ranking of “the annual worldwide market share of personal computer vendors includes desktop computers, laptop computers and netbooks, but not tablet computers.”

    First off my boss make’s the orthodox shul pay to have space on the JCC campus, where all the other synagogues and temples got their own building on JCC campus for free, second off, U don’t know my boss the way I do, like my boss is very shy for instance, my boss did give all the employees for their annual hoilday bonus one large slice of treif pizza, a can of soda pop, and a few pieces of candy, because he went on the cheap, because the company’s profit’s were down, third off Dell is the third largest computer company in the world.

    #1060294

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    As far as I know there isnt any Kosher Pizza store in Austin, TX and there are very few Kosher restaurants of any kind there

    #1060295

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant
    #1060296

    GolemGorilla
    Member

    zahavasdad “As far as I know there isnt any Kosher Pizza store in Austin, TX and there are very few Kosher restaurants of any kind there”

    There isn’t kosher pizza store here, but my boss could have bought a kosher frozen pizza from the local grocery store, kinda true.

    #1060297

    yehudayona
    Participant

    If he gave the conservative shul their building for free, why do they have a mortgage? On their website, they’re soliciting donations to pay off their mortgage.

    #1060298

    GolemGorilla
    Member

    DaasYochid http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/austintx-has-a-great-frum-community-2

    How does that thread have anything to do with mine.

    #1060299

    GolemGorilla
    Member

    yehudayona “If he gave the conservative shul their building for free, why do they have a mortgage? On their website, they’re soliciting donations to pay off their mortgage.”

    My boss did give the conservative synogogue their synogogue building for free.

    #1060300

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant
    #1060301

    GolemGorilla
    Member

    DaasYochid http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/austintx-has-a-great-frum-community-2#post-532143

    How does the thread that u posted here for the second time have anything to do with mine thread.

    #1060302

    Mammele
    Participant

    Isn’t allowing an Orthodox shul to pay for space kind of a contradiction to “in ??????? will I ever allow an orthodox shul to have a buliding on my JCC campus”. ?

    I understand they pay rent so it’s not technically “having” a building, but it’s not exactly as hostile as the comment seems to imply either.

    Anyway, if you want us to believe you it’s an uphill battle. For one, most people in the CR don’t publicize where they work.

    #1060303

    GolemGorilla
    Member

    “Isn’t allowing an Orthodox shul to pay for space kind of a contradiction to “in ??????? will I ever allow an orthodox shul to have a buliding on my JCC campus”. ?

    Mammele I understand they pay rent so it’s not technically “having” a building, but it’s not exactly as hostile as the comment seems to imply either.

    Anyway, if you want us to believe you it’s an uphill battle. For one, most people in the CR don’t publicize where they work.”

    The orthodox shul isn’t even allowed to have, a consistent space to rent at the JCC campus.

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