August 19, 2016 10:40 pm at 10:40 pm #618175LightbriteParticipant
I’m scared! A friend asked me for my shidduch resume, which should have info about…
And who I am looking for.
I know what I don’t want (abusive/unhealthy/negative); plus I know that I want to be with someone healthy (well-mannered/happy/positive).
Still… Is this supposed to look like my regular resume?
Do you have a shidduch resume? Please help; it’s Tu B’Av. B’esrat Hashem I want to have this sent in today before Shabbat.
Thank you!!! 🙂August 19, 2016 10:49 pm at 10:49 pm #1170491
lightbrite – looks good to me.August 20, 2016 9:13 pm at 9:13 pm #1170492
I have a lot of experience with both types of resumes. It shouldn’t look like your job resume. A job resume has a lot more detail about your job. Someone once sent me a shidduch resume that looked like a job resume. It bothered me; it made the guy sound very gaavadik because there was so much detail about his professional successes. A shidduch resume should mention what you do professionally but it doesn’t need a lot of detail. It is enough to write (for example) that you are a computer programmer and possibly the place where you work. There should be more details about your personality and hashkafos and values and goals in life and what you are looking for in a spouse. Those are the kinds of things your future spouse wants to hear about.
There was another thread in which someone asked a similar question, and I gave them a detailed response. I will find it & tell you what it was.August 20, 2016 9:17 pm at 9:17 pm #1170493
The thread was called, “Creating a Shidduch Resume” and it can be found in the Shidduchim section. I copied and pasted what I wrote there:
From my experience, there are basically two types of resumes.
1:This is the type used by 19 year old Bais Yaakov girls.This kind just lists the vital statistics. Most of the page is covered by two things: a) a list of siblings and facts about them (ages & schools if they are single, spouses & city of residence if married) b) A long list of references.
2: Most others use this type. This is for people who are not 19 years old and have something original to say about themselves, so they don’t have to fill the paper up with facts about their families.
In this type of reference, one would have a section on what she is looking for, and a section describing herself (She could also include both in one paragraph if she wants.) She should describe herself both in terms of hashkafa and personality and explain what she is looking for in terms of hashkafa and personality. She should also write what she does. Each of these things can be written under a separate heading or all together in one paragraph (as long as it’s not too long).
Most people also write the schools they went to (usually a separate heading, but it doesn’t have to be).
She should list 3 or 4 references. She should think carefully about who she lists as references. Just because someone knows you well and is a good friend does not necessarily make them a good reference.
On the top of the page, most people list their height and their birthday or age, but some people leave it out.August 21, 2016 4:24 am at 4:24 am #1170494popa_bar_abbaParticipant
Birthday is better than age, because it doesn’t usually change.
The reason 19 year old BY girls don’t need to write a description is that they are all the same.August 21, 2016 4:41 am at 4:41 am #1170495
You mean birth date, not birthday. The year is the only important data point, not the month/day.August 21, 2016 4:48 am at 4:48 am #1170496
popa_bar_abba – thats not true.August 21, 2016 5:06 am at 5:06 am #1170497writersoulParticipant
My mother has edited several shidduch resumes for people coming from MO backgrounds who didn’t know what they were doing- generally, they confused it with a job resume. But it’s totally logical, as the whole current construct is totally ridiculous.
Basically, as I think I may have mentioned on the other thread, my mom’s basic guidelines are
-current location (and hometown, if different)
-shul (and parents’ shul, if different)
-very basic appearance (hair color, eye color, height, etc)
-job (if applicable)
-BASIC family details (don’t go crazy- nobody needs to know the professions of the mechutanim- this is my mom’s pet peeve)
-my mom insists on short paragraphs of what you’re like and what you’re looking for. This is NOT usual in a yeshivish resume, especially of younger people. She prefers it because it gives a direction to go in and because people can’t always be defined by their life choices and origins.
-references (prepare yourself for nobody to call them)
PHOTO NOT NECESSARY. Really, not necessary.
Nice layout- if you can design it nicely and you think it will stand out well in a good way, great, but don’t risk it. Normal Word template is fine.
Elaborate as much as you’d like to, but don’t go crazy overboard.
Remember, at its core the whole system makes no sense. So it’s not worth your time to sit there questioning your sanity at any point- the problem is everyone else. Just swallow your pride and your questions and do it, basically.August 21, 2016 5:37 am at 5:37 am #1170498☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
popa_bar_abba – thats not true.
I agree. The date of birth changes so that the age doesn’t go up.August 21, 2016 5:41 am at 5:41 am #1170499
writersoul – thanks:) some mo people do know how to make a shidduch resume while others dont. we do think its funny because its a little like a job resume but different like how you said.August 21, 2016 6:02 am at 6:02 am #1170500HappygirlygirlMember
Most important don’t forget to say your genderAugust 21, 2016 6:16 am at 6:16 am #1170501
writersoul, MO folks generally have shidduch resumes? I though the rule of thumb there was they “meet naturally” rather than being introduced via a shadchan.August 21, 2016 7:12 am at 7:12 am #1170502☢️ Rand0m3x 🎲Participant
There’s an interesting article on the topic of descriptions in shidduchim in this week’s Family First (comes with Mishpacha).August 21, 2016 7:37 am at 7:37 am #1170503
DY and PBA: That is exactly why resumes of older single girls often write the age instead of the birthdate. I think this is fair because older single girls have a big disadvantage when it comes to age, and boys have ridiculous prejudices when it comes to age. These prejudices help neither them nor the girls they could be going out with, since many of these boys keep getting older and older and older without getting married. It has happened many times that a guy went out with a girl because he thought she was younger than she was (or he didn’t meet her through a shadchan so he didn’t know her age) and ended up liking her. Once he found out her age, he didn’t care about it anymore.
I am NOT recommending that anyone lie about his/her age. It is dishonest and a terrible start to a relationship that may end as soon as the guy/girl realizes you lied to him/her. What I am saying is that sometimes it’s better if the girl’s age is not the very FIRST thing he knows about her. He will call her references so he will probably find out her age before he goes out with her anyhow, but at least he will have had a chance to read her resume objectively first and maybe hear how wonderful she is before he verifies her age.August 21, 2016 7:41 am at 7:41 am #1170504
DY: “popa_bar_abba – thats not true.”
“I agree. The date of birth changes so that the age doesn’t go up.”
DY, Sparkly was referring to PBA’s comment that 19 year old BY girls are all the same.
I think they are both right. Obviously, they are not all the same, but many of them are looking for the same things and have the same basic hashkafas and do the same things. This is not necessarily a negative statement, but it is one that is not likely to apply to someone who is either less Yeshivish or older.August 21, 2016 7:51 am at 7:51 am #1170505
Writersoul: I definitely agree with you that photos are not necessary. I think they are untznius, demeaning & inappropriate. I also think they are useless and self-defeating. A person’s photo is not the person. When people see photos, it makes them more likely to say no, and you just end up cutting yourself off from potential shidduchim who might have been fine with the way you look in real life.
I know that even as a girl, there have been times when I was reluctant to go out with a guy because of his photo, and sometime later, I met him in real life and saw that he didn’t even look like his picture, or else he did but it didn’t bother me in real life.
Shul is usually unimportant if you are a girl, although if you’re 19, I suppose your parents’ shul might mean something. If you’re an older girl, even your parents’ shul is unimportant.
Appearance: The only thing that might be necessary and appropriate is height. IMHO, eye and hair color are inappropriate to put on a resume. If the guy/girl really cares, they will ask, but do you want to marry someone who asks a question like that??!!!! I once received a resume of a guy who specified the hair and eye color he was looking for! Sick!!
References: Almost everyone calls references in my experience! There are some older singles who have no patience to and don’t, but I think that’s stupid and dangerous (esp. if you’re a girl).August 21, 2016 4:55 pm at 4:55 pm #1170507kapustaParticipant
If there is no age or birthdate, there should definitely be some reference to age (like the year you graduated high school, for example). When you have five resumes to choose from, its very easy to put aside the one which gives you the least information.August 21, 2016 6:05 pm at 6:05 pm #1170508
Anyone who’s ever changed the “about myself” section 3 times because you thought you came across “too something” raise your hand.
I wonder if it actually serves any purpose except giving outlet to creative people (I’d say girls but to be fair I havn’t seen any guys’ resumes)
I don’t think people necesserily have to be able to describe themselves in writing. I know some wonderful people who surely couldn’t. Maybe you should let someone else write it for you.August 21, 2016 6:56 pm at 6:56 pm #1170509
Person1- How about 50 times at least?
Personally, I wouldn’t go out with someone who can’t spell or write. I once saw a reference from a guy who was looking for an intelligent girl. He spelled the word “intelligent” wrong!August 21, 2016 7:28 pm at 7:28 pm #1170510
Seriously? You’re going to judge someone’s neshoma and personality based on his spelling and/or writing capabilities in the secular language?August 21, 2016 7:57 pm at 7:57 pm #1170511
(: he should have asked someone to look it over. They all should. my funniest one was “he should be shaved”. In an other one it said he needs to be “intellectual” but it was clear from the girl’s background she meant intelligent. Not a Mozart listener for sure.
That remins me I was redt a girl and my friend was redt her sister. We compared resumes and it was exactly the same except tiny changes. So much for older girls being different.August 21, 2016 8:02 pm at 8:02 pm #1170512
I wonder how people got married until shidduch resumes became popular about 12 or so years ago.August 21, 2016 8:14 pm at 8:14 pm #1170513
Person1 – I’m sure that none of my sisters’ resumes looked ANYTHING like mine or each others’ even when we were younger. None of us are AT ALL alike!
Joseph: I’m not judging his personality or Neshama. It’s something that bothers me. You can’t marry someone who does something that bothers you. Everyone has things that bother them and are reasons why they won’t marry someone. Rav Yaakov Kaminetzky Zatsal’s granddaughter didn’t want to go out with someone again because of something that bothered her (can’t remember what, but it was something superficial like the way he walked or something) and he thought that was a legitimate reason not to go out again.
Also, whether or not someone can write in his native language does show something about him. It doesn’t make him a bad person, but it does make him a different type than me. It is important to me that the guy I marry is intelligent and educated and intellectual and articulate.August 21, 2016 8:18 pm at 8:18 pm #1170514
Joseph: “I wonder how people got married until shidduch resumes became popular about 12 or so years ago.”
Dating was actually easier then, I think. People didn’t just send you these random profiles that were floating around cyberspace. When someone made a suggestion, they actually knew the guy and knew you and were making the suggestion for a reason.August 21, 2016 8:30 pm at 8:30 pm #1170515
lilmod, there’s generally a trade-off to be made between seeking someone yeshivish and secularly educated. The more one is of one of those attributes, the more likely he’s to have less of the other.
Nu, so we should go back to the pre-resume days.August 21, 2016 8:50 pm at 8:50 pm #1170516
Joseph it’s not very nice of you to say yeshivish guys as a rule can’t spell.August 21, 2016 8:52 pm at 8:52 pm #1170517
Joseph, that may be true, but:
1. That depends how you define the word Yeshivish.
2.I don’t think that knowing basic english renders someone not-Yeshivish or not so Yeshivish.
3. If knowing basic english does render someone not-so-Yeshivish, then I guess that I am looking for someone who is not-so-Yeshivish.
4.In any case, I don’t know that I am davka looking for someone super-Yeshivish. But that probably depends how you define your terms.August 21, 2016 8:55 pm at 8:55 pm #1170518
Joseph, the other advantage to the pre-resume days was that people didn’t send or expect pictures.
On the other hand, the advantage to resumes sent via email is that you can be in touch with the shadchanim through email instead of by phone. It is much easier to say no to a computer than to a person!August 21, 2016 9:21 pm at 9:21 pm #1170519
Person1- he didn’t mean it as a put-down. Adraba, he was saying that it’s a maaleh to not be able to write since it shows that one is more Yeshivish and has been focusing on Kodesh and not on limudei chol.
Since a person has a limited amount of time and energy, theoretically the more time and energy one puts into one thing, the less he has for other things. Sometimes people tell stories illustrating the lack of general knowledge of Gedolim in order to illustrate their total dedication to Torah.
That is one legitimate way of looking at things, but I think there may be other ways, and some people will davka tell stories illustrating the vast knowledge of Gedolim. There is probably some truth to both approaches.August 21, 2016 9:30 pm at 9:30 pm #1170520
Person1, I didn’t say that. I said that the more secularly educated someone is, the more likely he is to be less yeshivish.August 21, 2016 10:01 pm at 10:01 pm #1170521kapustaParticipant
If you find that the paragraph is being misunderstood to the point where it has to be revised so many times, why is it on there in the first place?August 21, 2016 10:45 pm at 10:45 pm #1170522
LU I know. I suppose I forgot to put up my “being cynical” sign.
What I meant is if what Joseph implied is not factualy correct (there is no correlation between not being able to spell corectly and being yeshivish) than it’s not ok to say it. Because then you deny yeshivish guys the maala (credit) that they are great at spelling even though they are great lamdanim!
But honestly what bothered me Joseph is that you made it ilegitemate to turn down a guy for a very legitemate reason.August 21, 2016 10:56 pm at 10:56 pm #1170523
Joseph – the more educated you are the more jewish you are. (because jews are smart.)August 21, 2016 11:17 pm at 11:17 pm #1170524
Sparkly, Torah education, that is.August 22, 2016 10:14 am at 10:14 am #1170525
Person1:”But honestly what bothered me Joseph is that you made it ilegitemate to turn down a guy for a very legitemate reason.”
Even though I disagreed with Joseph’s statement l’maaseh, I would have to disagree with your statement as well. I wouldn’t say it’s a “very legitimate reason”. I think that Joseph was just pointing out that it is relatively unimportant, which is true. On the other hand, it is something that is important to some people, and that is legitimate.
On the one hand, we have a story about the Netziv giving mussar to his nephew for addressing an envelope incorrectly, and a story of another Gadol (maybe Rav Avraham Pam) giving mussar to his (grandson?) for his incorrect english. On the other hand, there is a famous story of a girl turning down a guy because he didn’t know how to drink coffee correctly and he drank it in a really weird way (I forget the details – maybe he ate the coffee beans and then drank the milk or something like that) and years later when her father found out that the guy ended up becoming a tremendous Talmid Chacham, he fainted.August 22, 2016 9:47 pm at 9:47 pm #1170526
That is what I was saying. It’s legitemate to turn down someone for something that bothers you. Everyone accepts that it ok to turn someone down for the way they look – if it bothers you. Nothing controversial about that. it’s a kal vachomer that it should be legitemate to turn down a guy for not being able to spell right. Surely it’s not a -mitzva- to be uneducated.
Also you didn’t say the guy was a great talmid chochem. If he was, I suggest that you reconsider (:
As for the main issue, I could give you more recent examples. the rav Shach zatzal was not eloquent in Hebrew, even though he had lived in Erez Israel many years. Arav shteinman leavdil bein chaim lechaim is also not so eloquent in Hebrew. I don’t think it diminshes their gadlus.August 23, 2016 12:03 am at 12:03 am #1170527
Person1: “Also you didn’t say the guy was a great talmid chochem. If he was, I suggest that you reconsider (:”
Actually, I think most of these guys probably knew even less Torah than english!
Personally, when I heard the coffee story, my reaction was, “Why did he faint? If this is something that bothered the girl, knowing that he was destined to become a Talmid Chacham wouldn’t necessarily change that!”
Imho, I think it would be great if my future husband is a Talmid Chacham, but it’s not THE single most important quality for a husband. There are several things that are more important, such as good middos, emotional health, good social skills, my liking him, and my respecting him (and I might have a hard time respecting someone who can’t spell)August 23, 2016 12:12 am at 12:12 am #1170528
Chazal say marrying a talmid chochom is the most important attribute. Being a talmid chochom requires good middos.August 23, 2016 12:27 am at 12:27 am #1170529
There is a famous story of someone who asked a Gadol what qualities he should be looking for in a husband for his daughter. He told him, someone who has good middos and is a Talmid Chacham. The father asked, “if he is a Talmid Chacham doesn’t that mean he has good middos?” The Gadol anwered, “no, the shtender never asks him to take out the garbage, the Gemara never has a bad day…”August 23, 2016 12:29 am at 12:29 am #1170530
There are Talmidei Chachamim who have bad middos. There was actually a famous case recently that I won’t go into, “vehamaiven yavin”, and everyone else can use their imaginations.
One could argue that such a person is not really a Talmid Chacham, but his wife certainly thought he was when she married him.August 23, 2016 12:41 am at 12:41 am #1170531
Joseph – in general i meant.August 23, 2016 1:11 am at 1:11 am #1170532
Someone with bad middos, by definition, is not a talmid chochom. Regardless of how book smart he is or how much Gemorah he knows.
My point is if someone doesn’t have good middos you know right away he’s not a talmid chochom. So when Chazal tell us to marry our daughters to a talmid chochom, it means obviously pay attention to the potential suitors middos. It goes together.
So when saying marry a talmid chochom should be the priority, it means make sure he has good middos together with his chochma.August 23, 2016 2:20 am at 2:20 am #1170533apushatayidParticipant
Don’t forget to attach your potato Kugel recipe to your shidduch resume. Perhaps a photo of the kugel.August 23, 2016 2:29 am at 2:29 am #1170534
Good point, apy. Rav Shach said it’s more important for a girl to be able to make a potato kugel than to learn a Rambam.August 23, 2016 2:39 am at 2:39 am #1170535
Except that Rav Shach did not say that! And it wasn’t even Rambam – it was Ramban. And it wasn’t potato kugel – it was some kind of cake.August 23, 2016 2:45 am at 2:45 am #1170536
Alrighty, but none of those details change the gist of the story as I presented it.August 23, 2016 2:48 am at 2:48 am #1170537
Joseph, so if a girl didn’t know how to make potato kugel, would you consider that a valid reason not to go out with her?
What if she knows how to make potato kugel but her english is really poor so she can’t read any other recipes?August 23, 2016 2:51 am at 2:51 am #1170538
lilmod, I’d consider it a problem if she didn’t know how to bake and instead of taking baking lessons she, instead, focused on mastering the Ramban.August 23, 2016 2:58 am at 2:58 am #1170539
I know, but I think the story is misunderstood in the first place. I think that he was just trying to show them that it’s inappropriate to go to a Gadol Hador to help you with your homework.
Alternatively, he realized they were too into their schoolwork, and he wanted to make sure they realized that there are other important things.
Either way, I don’t think the point was that they necessarily had to know how to make a potato kugel. I’m sure there have been plenty of tzadeikesis who had wonderful marriages and were wonderful wives and mothers even though they knew more about Ramban than about potato kugels.
In some homes, the husband does the cooking and there is nothing wrong with that if both the husband and wife are happy with it.
Of course, when someone is married, their most important job is being a good wife and mother, but there is room for individuality, and it sounds funny when you phrase it the way you did. Also, before marriage, there is certainly no reason why a girl can’t spend more time learning Rambans than making potato kugels!August 23, 2016 2:59 am at 2:59 am #1170540
note: my last post was before your last post and was in response to the post before it.
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