March 29, 2012 8:16 am at 8:16 am #602702proudbyerMember
Why do people feel the need to keep to “fashion’? Why when I walk in a room do i feel like people look me up and down to see if I am “acceptable”?March 29, 2012 2:15 pm at 2:15 pm #865013mytakeMember
You must be living in Brooklyn…March 29, 2012 3:53 pm at 3:53 pm #865014MDGParticipant
It only matters if you care.March 29, 2012 4:37 pm at 4:37 pm #865015ToiParticipant
I think we can welcome our newest troll.March 29, 2012 5:37 pm at 5:37 pm #865016
Fashion is a state of mind, but how does it spread so people agree something is in or old fashion?
I have always thought about cars, let’s say. How come a 2012 model, aside from actually being new, but how come it has lines that make it seem more modern?
What if they style of the 1950 Buick came out today for the first time? Would we say it does not look new and improved?
In other words, what makes the design of new things seem to be the latest and newest development? What is in that design which defines it as the latest, old, retro (combo old and latest)?March 29, 2012 7:12 pm at 7:12 pm #865017
proudbyer, to answer your first question, I think it’s mostly a psychological attraction coupled with intense peer pressure. In regard to your second question, it is unfortunate, but some people like to judge and draw possibly false conclusions simply from another’s outward appearance.
BTGuy, in regard to your questions: Yes, a large portion of a design’s success is due to its intrinsic appeal, but a large chunk of it is from marketing. People will always be drawn to a product that is marketed well, and the more people drawn to it, the more “fashionable” it becomes, until it reaches a state of being considered “common”. At that point, it may no longer be considered fashionable, because fashion goes hand in hand with new, fresh, and unique.
Regarding cars, the newest models seem to have a “modern” edge over the older models, but usually, in reality, they don’t. That can also be attributed to marketing schemes. There isn’t that much that makes 2012 model any more “modern” than a 2010 or 2011 model, on the outside. Although, modernity is a term that changes meaning based on the individual. Take a look at the first “streamlined” cars of the 1930’s. Those were definitely sleeker than anything seen before, and possibly look more “modern” than cars even of today. So what is it that makes today’s cars seem so modern? Marketing. Advertisements. Things that make the consumer have a psychological change.
Fashion, in general, goes in cycles. Something is brought to the market, becomes fashionable, after a while it becomes old, and something “new” replaces it. But that which is now “old” may come back into fashion a few years down the road. Many of today’s fashionable products and cars are styled after items of the 1960’s and 70’s. And in 30 years, it is possible that things that were “cool” in the 90’s would be considered “cool” again. It is all due to the public’s reaction of the marketing. The main principle designers need to keep in mind is that people like new and unique things, but won’t jump into anything TOO outrageous. So there’s a balance required. This is called the MAYA principle (Most Advanced Yet Acceptable).March 29, 2012 7:14 pm at 7:14 pm #865018devrachelMember
IMO Fashion can be a fun form of creative self expression. I am a Frum Fashion Maven blogger BTW…
I believe that is important to always keep in mind that Tznius and fashionable CAN go hand in hand! We have to look good and look after ourselves (it is good for mental health and shalom bayis) Personally, the goal for me is that my clothing reflect my taste and personality but in a dignified manner.
Via my blog I have had B’H the amazing experience to get a e-mails from 2 new BT girls plus their mothers in South America (argentina and brazil) who got inspired to go “all the way frum” by my posts ,the mum of one told me she was scared her child was going to grow up to wear a shapeless burka and that seeing a frum woman looking “normal” yet covered gave her relief…She also asked me if I shaved my head…LOL!
Fashion can be used to enhance the beauty and honour of being a Jewish woman….or become a sorry excuse for girls/women with middos issues to indulge in competitive behaviours, the choice is in the hands of the users.
Also IME , looking nice does not have to cost a bundle or be all about wearing designer brands…IMO, the best looks are created by pairing high and low pieces , I even thrift/gemach shop!
Learn the halacha be happy with yourself and your tznius style (no need for a clone look) and learn to ignore the haters who thrive by staring down at others .
Now back to cleaning after my messy little chametz vectors!! …..March 29, 2012 9:01 pm at 9:01 pm #865019blackhatwannabeParticipant
Fashion for a guy at least is the “shpitz”-pointy shoes, thick big black glasses, tight shirt and pants, hair spiked up in front, black hat put on the right way. Thats Yeshivish fashion.March 29, 2012 9:32 pm at 9:32 pm #865020
exactly! why would have the jewish popuation(women and girls) find it reasnable to start wearing zippers on thier heads? then cloths? It all just doesnt make sense! Why cant tznius be a fashion?thats what we are supposed to want to do afterlall?!??!March 30, 2012 3:34 am at 3:34 am #865021scienceprogramMember
Interesting point,I agree with you; “you hit the hammer on the nail”.
The real problem with being so “into” fashion is that so many women get too “into” it in the sense that it takes over their lives, how? They forget to treat other women who might not dress how THEY CONSIDER “GOOD” with proper middos and then they do things like “looking people up and down”.
Many women end up letting the fashion take over their lives that gasmius becomes more of a priority for them than ruchnius in that they are focusing on how other women are dressing… and then forget that everyone has feelings and wants to feel comfortable which is not what happens when women are “looked up and down”.
devrachel, you seem to like to dress well and that is fine, but the concern is when women who like to dress fashionably, “look down” at other women who are not dressing as fashionably.
You said you like to dress to look “good”. Well, what is good to one woman is different to another. Many times I have met woman who only talk about what they will wear and how __ is coming “in style”; I feel that those women are so shallow because they act like that is their only concern while I want to spend more time focusing on life’s challenges and how to grow in our faith towards hashem with our challenges.
Unfortunately, there is not as much pressure in “dressing fashionably” by the goyim that I work with. Yes, you could look good by finding good deals but buying clothes is still expensive. I just do not understand how many families who say they can’t pay tuition are then spending a lot of money on clothes for the “woman of the house” just so that she could wear the “latest style” in other words be dressed “fashionably”.March 30, 2012 6:22 am at 6:22 am #865022
scienceprogram i know what you mean!there is a fam in my community that people know dont have enought money…. anyway they keep buying all these fancy cloths from expensive stores, its hard not to judge them, but when there kids go to skl without what they need its hard…..anyway i just feel when i walk in a room i am literally looked up and down and it makes me uncomfterable! on the one hand if i dress nice they will treat me nice, but i will be playing into fashion,on the other if i dont keep to “fashion” they wont know i am “protesting” SO WHERE IS THE “MIDDLE LINE/ SOLUTION???”March 30, 2012 6:29 am at 6:29 am #865023Think firstMember
OP-Some people will look u up and down, some will even comment. However, nobody and no force in existance has the power over how you think of urself.
Ultimately, that’s all that matters, because how u think of urself is how you act and is who you become.March 30, 2012 7:36 am at 7:36 am #865024
thinkfirst- right but there is also that posek i forgot the hebrew..”dont put a stubling blocl..” can not dressing fashionable b counted as that? I mean then they will think you have know idea about fashion, when in reality you do but are choosing not to show it!?March 30, 2012 1:24 pm at 1:24 pm #865025mytakeMember
Just a thought about fashion: I don’t think it’s about how many clothes you own, I think it’s how much TIME you spend on shopping, putting together outfits, keeping up with the latest trends that determine how invested you are in your fashion.
I don’t see the point in “protesting” fashion obsession. Some people are just too shallow to realize the absurdity of their behavior. It’s not your job to change them. You can dress just as well as they do, the point is not to put too much time and energy into it, and not to judge those who don’t care as much, or simply don’t have a fashion sense.March 30, 2012 2:51 pm at 2:51 pm #865026
If you are going to answer my question, at least put some thought into it. lol. jk
Thank you. You touched upon a lot of valid variables.March 30, 2012 4:32 pm at 4:32 pm #865027
Haha, thanks BTGuy! I can really go on and on about this. (I’m studying industrial design.)April 1, 2012 4:52 am at 4:52 am #865028
How can fashion be stopped? Think how bad it is now, can we really aford it in 20 years? Imagine….April 1, 2012 6:54 am at 6:54 am #865029
yiddeshemeidle, I understand your point, but fashion goes in cycles. So it’s not completely accurate to really say that in 20 years, it will be worse than it is now, because it’s entirely possible that in 20 years, fashion will be the way it was in the 1950’s; or any era, for that matter.April 1, 2012 8:50 am at 8:50 am #865030
Middlepath- i am not saying for sure but IF… And anyway think of it this way…. A number of years ago the style hung to two inches higher!amd as a precaution rabbaim said just know highest in future can be four below knee! They said it hinming there is no way it would bappen … YET IT DID! I a
Just saying if and when it happens are we really prepared?April 2, 2012 3:11 am at 3:11 am #865031
Dows anyone know which rav it was? I feel bad not saying?April 2, 2012 3:54 pm at 3:54 pm #865032
Hatzlacha in your studies! You seem to be doing very well!
: DApril 2, 2012 8:58 pm at 8:58 pm #865033
Thanks, BTGuy. I’m definitely working hard, but it’s something I enjoy, so that makes it all worth it.
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