What’s the difference between protests and parades

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  • #1746588

    klugeryid
    Participant

    Specifically,
    Why is it OK to block off huge traffic arteries to make a parade, but when people protest a ” perceived “travesty or injustice, they get tremendous condemnation.

    Specifically,
    YWN recently ran laudatory, almost fawning coverage of the Israeli day parade.
    I don’t recall seeing any posters bemoaning the blocking of a major road causing traffic inconvenience for tens of thousands and not allowing ambulances and other emergency vehicles through.
    Yet YWN routinely runs articles, and has tons of commentators, blasting “those animals ” who are protesting גיות and now גיות בנות something the חזו”א clearly said is יהרג ועל יעבור!!!
    I’m not referring to the behaviour at the protests.
    We can argue about that
    I’m specifically asking about those who attack the protesters on grounds of blocking traffic and emergency vehicles and messing up people’s schedules

    I’d love to hear a rational response

    #1746691

    Goldilocks
    Participant

    I’m assuming that parade organizers get permission from the authorities to block off streets.
    Possibly emergency vehicles are informed of the event, so that they can plan alternate routes

    #1746699

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    You need a permit to have a parade and the government can work around it knowing its happening so emergency vehicles can operate. An protest without a permit cannot allow emergency vehicles to get around as the government doesnt know exactly where it is

    #1746723

    Justice Thurgood Marshall once described his philosophy as this: “You do what you think is right and let the law catch up”

    KJ
    obviously less likely to give permits for these protest
    if it was important enough we would manage to get them somehow

    #1746720

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    You can have a parade of protesters exercising their civil liberties with official sanction for specific times and locations. However, when some misguided Rav tells his talmidim to run out on the street to block traffic, burn dumpsters and disobey the security forces its politely called a protest….when the protestors get out of hand, they get their heads bashed against the concrete and then its called a riot….

    #1746749

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    KY
    “Why is it OK to block off huge traffic arteries to make a parade, but when people protest a ” perceived “travesty or injustice, they get tremendous condemnation.”

    The difference isnt between a parade and protest. The difference is permission and no permission.

    #1746799

    klugeryid
    Participant

    I am in awe
    Basically Every poster is saying it’s OK to inconvenience as many people as it will, for any reason, because some politician likes the cause.
    But without that permission, no matter how urgent the cause, it’s not OK.
    So the only issue with the peleg protests is that they have no official permission.
    And if the current protestors got permission, it would be perfectly fine for them to be snarling traffic all around
    Good to be clear

    #1746802

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    The problem is that some of these mindless “leaders” of peleg believe they are channeling the Ebeshter so they don’t need anyone’s permission. Sadly, as they are learning, “protest” at our own risk and if you do so, be prepared to suffer the consequences if your personal protest disrupts others’ rights.

    #1746839

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    “And if the current protestors got permission, it would be perfectly fine for them to be snarling traffic all around”

    Yes this isn’t complicated. and it is quite clear, Though your tone seems needlessly snarky as if you still don’t quite get this simple distinction

    Its wrong of you to block my driveway. Aye when my friend comes to visit he blocks it? why the double standard?

    He has permission.

    “But without that permission, no matter how urgent the cause, it’s not OK.”

    herein lies the problem, who decides what is an urgent cause ? I think the fact that my corner pizza store started putting pineapple on pizza is urgent, do you think I should be allowed to be ” snarling traffic all around” ?

    There is a process we have elected officials we entrust to make thsi decisions, it isnt practical to take a poll every time an issue comes up, this is called representative government. If you feel strongly about an issue, elect politicians to represent you, who support parading for Israel, protesting drafting ledyggeyers, or who oppose pineapple on pizza, as the case may be. But just because YOU dont’ like (or do like) something doesn’t mean you can block traffic or even block my driveway without going through the proper channels

    #1746851

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    I dont know about Israel, but in the US pretty much of you apply to have a protest the government has to give you the permit to march due to free speech issues. If Neo Nazis wanted a permit to march down 13th ave in Borough park, there isnt much the city could do to stop it.

    The Westboro Baptist Church doesnt even get permits, they just protest and there isnt much that can be done, most protest groups get the permit in order to be a “good citizen” something the westboro baptist church doesnt care about

    #1747054

    hml
    Participant

    To answer the question in its simplest form: VIOLENCE & HATEFUL RHETORIC.

    #1747018

    klugeryid
    Participant

    Ubiq
    Your beautiful mashAl illustrates the point so nicely.
    I can’t block your driveway but if I ask MY neighbor permission then I could?

    The issue I brought up is why are people who block ambulances not animals just because some politician told them It’s OK.
    How does that solve the issue of blocking ambulances???
    Or to spell it out since you clearly missed the point,
    Most people understand that there is such a thing as allowing people to block streets for various reasons.
    I’ve seen streets blocked off for a block party.
    All it takes is a phone call and a few bucks.
    In new York there does not seem to be any threshold.
    It’s just procedure.
    So all the ranting about inconveniencing others and ambulances is pure hogwash.
    The real reason is, as a few have pointed out, that the issue does not resonate with you.
    Gay pride parade? Sure block all the streets. That’s important.
    But conscripting frum girls into an army full of behamos, big deal!! Yawn. Don’t block my street I need to get to the store to by my rainbow colored hat for next weeks parade on the same streets in complaining about you blocking today.

    You noticed that my comments seem snarky?
    Good for you at least you are partially aware.
    Of course I’m being snarky to lowlifes who can’t stomach the thought of anyone standing up for כבוד שמים

    #1747102

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    One can learn from the upcoming “parade” this weekend. This “parade” started as a riot at the stonewall inn by a bunch of men dressed as women. Some people attacked cops at the stonewall Inn in NYC, I dont think they were very sympathetic to the rioters in those days, It took decades but those people managed via pr to convience others that they were correct . A good PR helps any protest and thats what the leaders of the Hafganaos in Israel need to learn to do. If a bunch of rioters dressed as woman attacking policeman can win a PR campaign , anyone can. It just takes good PR and patience

    #1747100

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    When you have a protest, part of the goal is to convience others not part of your group that your cause is correct. This can be a hard thing to do epsecially when you are inconveniencing others.

    If you cannot convience outsiders that your cause is correct, your protest has failed and you just become a blocker of traffic making people late to work and conviencing people that your cause is correct is YOUR job, not the people who are on the outside. Nobody said its easy.

    Using the block party analogy, Blocking the street for a block party is actualy not so popular anymore, but if you invite people to your party, they might be convienced to change their mind

    The protesters in Israel need to learn how to convience outsiders that their cause is correct and that includes not only blocking the streets, but have people on the sidewalks giving and flyers and talking to people why they are correct, going on the TV news or whatever and giving interviews about their cause.

    #1747119

    klugeryid
    Participant

    Thanks zd
    For a rational eloquent response.

    Now to disagree.
    I’m not knowledgeable about which parade you are referring to, but it’s not really relevant.
    When it comes to conscription of girls into the Israeli army, we can’t afford to utilize an approach that takes years. There is too much collateral damage during such a lengthy process.

    The general idea of protests in Israel specifically seems to be not about convincing the other side as to the correctness of one’s position. It is exactly about showing the other side how miserable I can make your life, till the point where you give in to me.
    All the talk about blocking and messing up traffic?
    Exactly. That’s the point. It’s a message to the medina ,
    If you persist, we will make it impossible to function in your city.
    As an analogy, think about a teachers strike. We had one a few years back in nyc, or a bus drivers strike.
    Doesn’t that inconvenience all the parents of school age children?
    I mean as a parent, I have no control over teachers or drivers contracts.
    Why do I need to now miss a day of work to stay home with my children because the teacher doesn’t like his salary package?? He makes more than I do already! Now I need to lose multiple days pay, so he can get more money??? No my back?
    Yet nobody says don’t let the teachers strike, they have no right to inconvenience others.

    That’s the way things work. No system is perfect.

    Your argument is a reasonable argument as to why this is not the smartest nor most effective way to achieve a goal.
    I’m that you may be 100% correct.
    You certainly present a strong position.
    But that was never my question.
    My question was and is, why are we so easy to accept certain types of inconvenience, from certain causes (parades, workers strikes) yet from other causes (protests) all of a sudden we realize that it’s a tremendous inconvenience for so many people.

    To further clarify, I understand from a city perspective.
    To allow every protest without an organized system would lead to anarchy and worse.
    I am specifically asking about commenters personal opinions.
    I am appalled at how little this issue resonates with so many people that they are ranking out these protesters for stopping traffic, while they would willingly allow it for far less (workers strike for better pay) all the way down to a worthless (IMHO) thing called a parade.

    That is my question.
    The most I got is the robotic response. One is (call it) legally sanctioned the other is not.
    Really????? That’s your barometer? If a law is passed you have no issue with being messed up, but otherwise you have no cause you would willingly sacrifice for?
    I think that’s just a cover.
    I think it’s because they feel that the yeshiva and female exceptions should be abolished and they should all go to the army.
    I am calling them out

    #1747156

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    KY
    “I can’t block your driveway but if I ask MY neighbor permission then I could?”

    Absolutely! Assuming he is my representative, and he is appointed to be in charge of driveway blocking, absolutely you can with his permission. Why on earth would you think otherwise?

    “Your beautiful mashAl illustrates the point so nicely.”
    thanks! it really does.

    #1747151

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    KY
    “How does that solve the issue of blocking ambulances???”
    Because they know ahead of time. Do you think ambulances are sitting there sirens blaring waiting for the parade to pass?
    Moreover, if that were to happen, do you think the parade would keep on parading or pause to let them through?
    (Though doubt his has happened, since as mentioned with permission it is announced beforehand)

    “All it takes is a phone call and a few bucks.”
    ding ding ding. Write this in bold letters, since you seem to have trouble with this simple point.
    Nailed it! this is the key. Read it over and over until you absorb it
    Make a phone call, get permission from our representatives (ie from us similar to the driveway analogy) and block all the streets you want for any reason you want .

    that VERY SAME block part is wrong if they just wake up one morning and decide to block the the street for a party.

    #1747161

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Protesting by making someone elses life misreable rarely works, The other side can have the police, guns riot gear , jails and more, they can make your life miserable. Im sure the protestors are motivated, but if you get thrown in a dark damp dingy jail with minimal food and water for a few months most people will break down, Some wont of course, but many will

    You want to get the other side to break down, not your side

    #1747178

    anonymous Jew
    Participant

    Ky, you don’t seem to get it. When a parade/protest is approved, there is ample advance notice so that drivers can take an alternate route ( on the day of the NY marathon, people know to stay clear of the Verrazano bridge and the BQE.). When spontaneous protesters block streets, there is no advance notice. You seem to feel that your actions come with no cost to yourselves. I think the police have been too soft. If every protest was met with water cannons and arrests , they would think twice before acting

    #1747162

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    If I wanted to hold a ‘parade” in front or your house and block your driveway, it would be difficult to get the required “permit” from police. If I showed up with a few chevrah with signs saying that “Reb Yankel is a shvuntz”, I wouldn’t need a permit since it would be viewed as exercise of First Amendment rights and free speech.

    #1747164

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    Look KY
    you are mixing up two issues.

    You can argue that stopping leydig-geirs from doing something productive with their lives is an important cause and warrants blocking traffic including ambulances even without permission.
    However that is not the subject of this thread.

    This thread is about “Why is it OK to block off huge traffic arteries to make a parade, but when people protest a ” perceived “travesty or injustice, they get tremendous condemnation.”

    THAT is what is being addressed. I (and others) are explaing the difference between permission and non-permission (note: not between parades and protests. parades are wrong without our permission and protests are fine with going through the proper channels, and yes there are of course times occasionally without going through the proper channels, but THOse arent justified because parades are ok)

    You throw in ““All it takes is a phone call and a few bucks.”” but this is the whole distiction.

    You ramble on about protests and the point of them. And you may even be right, I agree that protests occasionally justify inconveniencing others.
    But they arent comparable to parades. Which is the theme of this thread.

    Lets go back to my excellent driveway mashal.
    1) We agree that blocking my driveway is wrong.
    2) Now of course we agree that if you have permission (from me or anyone authorized to give permission like YOUR neighbor (not quite sure how he got that power but you say he did)) then you can block my driveway
    3) We also agree (I assume) that in certain emergencies (eg an ambulance tending to my neighbor) blocking the driveway is also justified.
    (let me know if you disagree with any of the above 3 points)

    Now You want to block my driveway for something you deem important. picking up lunch, catching minyan, or whatever the case may be. Your justification for blocking it makes zero sense if you say “well you (or your representative) let Chaim block it when he dropped off a package (ie # 2), clearly having your driveway blocked doesn’t bother you, so Ican block it for reasons important to me” This makes zero sense, and is the question you asked in your OP.

    On the other hand saying “Well in an emergency blocking your driveway is ok (#3) and this was an emergency because xyz…” THAT would make sense. OF course it would shift the discussion to how important the emergency is. But that is NOT the subject of this thread

    #1747256

    klugeryid
    Participant

    Ubiq you think ambulances have no way to know about a protest? We find out in America in thirty seconds but ambulances in Jerusalem don’t know?
    Right
    Again your proving my point
    The issue isn’t About blocking streets. It’s about following rules.
    So say that.
    Leave the ambulances out.
    That’s just a sympathy complaint

    #1747265

    klugeryid
    Participant

    Ubiq reread the end of my post.
    I’m asking about people’s opinion
    You are giving me factual reasons why it’s incorrect.
    I even agree with some of them
    But when a הכנסת ספר תורה blocks the street without a permit, I don’t call them חיות, because I personally connect with the event so I personally don’t begrudge what their doing.
    When the gay pride parade blocks my street with a permit, I personally curse them out, even though they are legally correct.
    That’s what I’m addressing here

    #1747268

    klugeryid
    Participant

    Anonymous Jew
    I assume you don’t live in New York

    There is no such thing as an alternate route
    When you block off one small block in Brooklyn it can easily add 10-15 min to your drive for an area of a few miles
    It’s meaningless from a planning perspective to have advance notice.
    Total red herring

    #1747270

    klugeryid
    Participant

    On the day of the marathon you Add 2-3 hours to your commute if you need to go between Brooklyn and Lakewood.
    Small help for an ambulance trying to get a patient from Brooklyn to a Manhattan hospital.
    So the driver knows it will take him hours to get to Columbia hospital instead of forty minutes
    Big help that permit was.

    #1747277

    klugeryid
    Participant

    Now You want to block my driveway for something you deem important. picking up lunch, catching minyan, or whatever the case may be. Your justification for blocking it makes zero sense if you say “well you (or your representative) let Chaim block it when he dropped off a package (ie # 2), clearly having your driveway blocked doesn’t bother you, so Ican block it for reasons important to me”
    Ubiq
    You said it beautifully
    When your friend comes you don’t tell him to ask you permission as a matter of fact if your close friend was your neighbor and they made a vort you would probably be OK if I blocked your driveway even if I only know your neighbor and not you. You would be happy your friends guest came attend.
    So the reason the protesters bother you is because you don’t agree with their cause!!

    #1747290

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    KY
    “But when a הכנסת ספר תורה blocks the street without a permit, I don’t call them חיות, because I personally connect with the event so I personally don’t begrudge what their doing.”

    So I, (and I asume those posters who wrote the difference is permission) do. It is wrong to close of streets to traffic without permission period.
    for Hachnosos sefer Torah, block party, protest or parade of any kind.

    “When the gay pride parade blocks my street with a permit, I personally curse them out, even though they are legally correct.
    That’s what I’m addressing here”

    Except that isnt what you said. I oppose the message behind that parade, yet support thuir right to parade wit h(and only with) a permit. I support hachnasos sefer torah but oppose them when done without permission.

    there is no comparison between the protests in Yerushalayim and parades. (which was your OP question)

    “You said it beautifully”
    thanks! I am quite proud of our driveway analogy, I’m not sure why you are still struggling with this

    “…they made a vort you would probably be OK if I blocked your driveway even if I only know your neighbor and not you”
    Lol! you obviously don,t live in NY. No I would be very upset if they didn’t say anything or leave a note of some sort.

    “So the reason the protesters bother you is because you don’t agree with their cause!!”
    Even if true that is not the subject at hand. Yo u are free to chaneg the subject of course. but be clear that Your OP has been answered and that yo understand the difference between protests and parades

    reread the OP: “What’s the difference between protests and parades”

    Simple question: If you block my driveway, Do you think this is a reasonable response:
    “well you let Chaim block it when he did xyz, clearly having your driveway blocked doesn’t bother you, so I can block it for reasons important to me”
    ?

    #1747458

    Milhouse
    Participant

    The difference is obvious: When you apply for a permit the police consider traffic conditions and only give the permit if it will not be disruptive. That is why parades in Manhattan are held only on Sundays, and only on certain roads that drivers know to avoid on summer Sundays. And of course they are publicized well in advance. The NYPD has now reached its limit on major parades and no longer issues new permits, because there aren’t enough summer Sundays for them, and the needs of traffic come first.

    There is no first amendment right to an automatic protest permit; the right exists only to get permits on the same basis that everyone else does. The police can’t discriminate between applicants based on the cause they’re promoting; rather, in each case they must consider only how disruptive it will be to traffic.

    #1747454

    klugeryid
    Participant

    IM not changing the op
    i am the author
    i maybe was not clear enough all along but i keep trying

    #1747455

    klugeryid
    Participant

    and i do live in brooklyn but unfortunately im glad im not your neighbor
    people coming for my neighbor block my driveway all the time
    not for simchas
    i deal with it
    its called ואהבת לרעך כמוך

    #1747552

    Being willfully naive .
    no matter how much some want to try to claim otherwise how much the public opinion are behind or firmly resist long runa demonstration will certainly determine the long-run whether or
    not they get a permit
    Take a Civil disobedience page from Martin Luther King jr. and bro’s
    (That is notwithstanding the 1977 the Supreme Court ruling in Skokie Nazi March)

    And all the more so in Israel

    cf.My comment above

    #1747787

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    “i deal with it”
    I deal with it too. I call 311, and expect them to do the same (though I wont block a driveway even if it means paying $35 for alternate side ticket)

    “its called ואהבת לרעך כמוך”
    I wouldn’t block their driveway. its called ואהבת לרעך כמוך.
    At any rate though if you give permission then veiter, its similar to the parade and not protest. which is exactly my point.

    “IM not changing the op i am the author”

    you are. the words are still there “What’s the difference between protests and parades”
    Are you clear on the difference or still confused?

    Also, you havent answered my question:
    If you block my driveway, Do you think this is a reasonable response:
    “well you let Chaim block it when he did xyz, clearly having your driveway blocked doesn’t bother you, so I can block it for reasons important to me”

    #1747799

    The little I know
    Participant

    Some commenters here need to place phone calls to some of the local politicians and askanim regarding the closing of streets for major events. In reality, when there are such closures, there are authorities around to help the situation. Emergency vehicles get rerouted, and are notified well in advance. Inquire from Hatzoloh if you wish. Even short notice events such as levayos R”L are handled professionally.

    Without regard to the cause, just flooding the streets with crowds of people is criminal behavior. They may stay out of the street and chant their message. The media will report it, don’t worry. If some are deluded into believing that the degree of imposition and inconvenience is related to the success of the protest, take the action to the places that are directly involved, such as you police stations, government offices, etc. Get out of my street.

    You do not have a Constitutional right to block my access to public property, not my sidewalk, street, shuls, etc. The location is determined not about where it has most impact on the subject matter, but on the degree of inconvenience and disruption to the public. Get outa there. It is not about the subject. The Chazon Ish referred to “Yehoreig ve’al yaavor”, not “Yaharog ve’al yaavor”. Big difference. You may be moseir your nefesh, not mine.

    #1747910

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    You do not have a Constitutional right to block my access to public property, not my sidewalk, street, shuls, etc.

    They cannot block you from entering, but they can protest in front of it. There have been for example protests at peoples houses for various reasons (like get refusal), The Westboto Baptist church once had a protest once in front of Torah Vodass (Without a permit, they dont belive in Permits)

    #1747938

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    ZD
    “They cannot block you from entering,”

    So you agree.

    KY
    “So the driver knows it will take him hours to get to Columbia hospital instead of forty minutes
    Big help that permit was.”

    Of course it s a huge help, the ambulance driver knows not to try to go to Columbia that day and will find out if there are any hospitals in Brooklyn that are open that day

    #1748037

    klugeryid
    Participant

    Ubiq
    I’ll try to respond to all, if I leave something out ask again.

    Firstly, changing the topic. You are only allowed a limited amount of words as the heading. The first post was submitted together with the heading. Read it fully especially the last few lines. Then see if I’m really changing the topic.

    No. I don’t have a right to block your driveway and say “we’ll you allowed someone else to block it to go Daven so why can’t I. ” but it is rational to ask you as an observer, why do only some cars bother you when they block your driveway and not others. If you told me whoever the Gabbi let’s I don’t mind, AND I know that the Gabbi will let anyone who asks, And you are upset at someone who went to that shul but just didn’t ask the Gabbi, I’d have a hard time understanding. If then I saw a fellow get permission to block it and use the spot to go to the next door grocery, and you’d be OK with it because he asked permission, but an hour later you get mad at someone who parked and went to Daven but didn’t ask permission, I’d think your crazy.

    When someone blocks my driveway and I don’t get mad ואהבת לרעך
    When I’m looking for parking it’s reversed. Then ואהבת tells me not to block someone’s driveway.
    Am I perfect? Not even in viewing distance. So if a random person blocks my driveway I get mad.
    But when it’s someone for my neighbor I let it go.

    Columbia hospital.
    Right so someone has a difficult medical condition with a team of doctors in Columbia treating him for years.
    Now the ambulance will bring him to cobble hill cause some parade got permission to close off fifth avenue messing up the whole city or the marathon closed off major traffic arteries.
    Wonderful.
    He can die from medical incompetence secure in the knowledge that the ambulance had advance warning of the street closures.
    And with a smile cause they had a permit.
    Huge help there.
    יתגדל ויתקדש

    #1748134

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    KY
    “why do only some cars bother you when they block your driveway and not others”

    Again because they had permission.

    ” and you’d be OK with it because he asked permission, but an hour later you get mad at someone who parked and went to Daven but didn’t ask permission, I’d think your crazy.”

    Ah but thats not crazy at all. You see when someone asks permission, part of my letting him is getting his number so that If I need the driveway (or if he “forgets” and his mincha minyan turns into a mincha plus lunch plus a “quick ” meeting and a “few” “quick” errands, even if the guy is blocking my driveway for Yom Kippur Mincha, it cant possibly take more than 2 hours!) I can call him and he’ll come move it ASAP. Whether he is at minyan or at the grocery is no difference to me as long as he follows the procedure

    “When someone blocks my driveway and I don’t get mad ואהבת לרעך”
    That is truly wonderful. You get a big pat on the back, and a big sticker (and even bigger one in oilam haemes) but this doesn’t really have bearing on the conversation. ITs nice that you dont get mad, but it is still wrong for the person to block it (unless he knows that it is you and you dont mind which is as if he has permission, incidently do you mind sharing your address? (kidding))

    “He can die from medical incompetence ”
    Lol, and in this scenario the phones don’t work and they cant reach out to Columbia for guidance.
    You are right, I looked into it and there is a spike in death rates on Days of parades because people with imaginary medical conditions that are so complicated that only Columbia can possibly stabilize them for a day cant get to Columbia. Of course Columbia’s phone lines get jammed as part of this huge influx of exotic emergencies that take place tying up their phone lines. (sounds about as real as the imaginary driveway in Brooklyn whose owner doesnt mind when people block it)

    Seriously, I just notified Hatzolah to plan even for this imaginary eventuality by noting that the tunnel, Manhattan bridge, Brooklyn bridge are all open, so they can still get to Columbia , I would recommend the tunnel, to the WEst side, avoiding all marathon runners completely. all the way up to Columbia. Marathon will be Nov 20. See how great it is to plan ahead of time!

    #1748462

    Old Crown Heights
    Participant

    This is how the original question sounds to me.

    Do I still have to drop a token in the turnstile before getting on the subway (before Metro cards) if I drop the same amount of money in a pushka before leaving the house?
    To elaborate. What’s the difference where I give the money? I’m not doing it for me, because I don’t save anything. I gave the money to a local charity. In my opinion the local charity actually gives the public more bang for its buck than the transit authority. So I did a good thing by jumping the turnstile?

    #1748508

    MTG
    Participant

    in answer to the original question: absolutely none

    #1748669

    klugeryid
    Participant

    och
    your cute

    #1752009

    A.Where Are All The Commentators About The Ethiopian Protests

    B.’ prominent recent event contributing to the reviving of the white supremacy fear took place in Charlottesville, Virginia in early August 2017. Perhaps, some ill-received statements by Pres. Trump brought to the events a prominence they would not otherwise have gained.

    To make a long story short: An ad hoc group convened what was billed as a national meeting to “unite the right.” They also wanted to protest the forthcoming removal of a statue of a Confederate general. They requested and obtained a permit from the city. Some of the protesters wore Klan paraphernalia; some wore Nazi insignia. I think that most did neither. Given the theme of the meeting – “unite…”- it’s very unlikely that most or many did either. It’s hard to tell from the TV footage. Cameras targeted over and over the same handful of colorful and vividly signaling demonstrators. As usual, the reporters on the scene did not try to draw a random (representative) sample of the demonstrators. I don’t expect them to, of course.

    There was a physical confrontation with counter-protesters who showed up without a permit (therefore, acting technically unlawfully) and ready for street battle. Some of those called themselves “antifa” (“anti-fascist,” of all things).’..

    #1752342

    klugeryid
    Participant

    And your point is???

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