What’s the difference between protests and parades

You need a permit to have a parade and the government can work around it knowing its happening so emergency vehicles can operate. An protest without a permit cannot allow emergency vehicles to get around as the government doesnt know exactly where it is

You can have a parade of protesters exercising their civil liberties with official sanction for specific times and locations. However, when some misguided Rav tells his talmidim to run out on the street to block traffic, burn dumpsters and disobey the security forces its politely called a protest….when the protestors get out of hand, they get their heads bashed against the concrete and then its called a riot….

“And if the current protestors got permission, it would be perfectly fine for them to be snarling traffic all around”

Yes this isn’t complicated. and it is quite clear, Though your tone seems needlessly snarky as if you still don’t quite get this simple distinction

Its wrong of you to block my driveway. Aye when my friend comes to visit he blocks it? why the double standard?

He has permission.

“But without that permission, no matter how urgent the cause, it’s not OK.”

herein lies the problem, who decides what is an urgent cause ? I think the fact that my corner pizza store started putting pineapple on pizza is urgent, do you think I should be allowed to be ” snarling traffic all around” ?

There is a process we have elected officials we entrust to make thsi decisions, it isnt practical to take a poll every time an issue comes up, this is called representative government. If you feel strongly about an issue, elect politicians to represent you, who support parading for Israel, protesting drafting ledyggeyers, or who oppose pineapple on pizza, as the case may be. But just because YOU dont’ like (or do like) something doesn’t mean you can block traffic or even block my driveway without going through the proper channels

To answer the question in its simplest form: VIOLENCE & HATEFUL RHETORIC.

One can learn from the upcoming “parade” this weekend. This “parade” started as a riot at the stonewall inn by a bunch of men dressed as women. Some people attacked cops at the stonewall Inn in NYC, I dont think they were very sympathetic to the rioters in those days, It took decades but those people managed via pr to convience others that they were correct . A good PR helps any protest and thats what the leaders of the Hafganaos in Israel need to learn to do. If a bunch of rioters dressed as woman attacking policeman can win a PR campaign , anyone can. It just takes good PR and patience

KY
“How does that solve the issue of blocking ambulances???”
Because they know ahead of time. Do you think ambulances are sitting there sirens blaring waiting for the parade to pass?
Moreover, if that were to happen, do you think the parade would keep on parading or pause to let them through?
(Though doubt his has happened, since as mentioned with permission it is announced beforehand)

“All it takes is a phone call and a few bucks.”
ding ding ding. Write this in bold letters, since you seem to have trouble with this simple point.
Nailed it! this is the key. Read it over and over until you absorb it
Make a phone call, get permission from our representatives (ie from us similar to the driveway analogy) and block all the streets you want for any reason you want .

that VERY SAME block part is wrong if they just wake up one morning and decide to block the the street for a party.

Ky, you don’t seem to get it. When a parade/protest is approved, there is ample advance notice so that drivers can take an alternate route ( on the day of the NY marathon, people know to stay clear of the Verrazano bridge and the BQE.). When spontaneous protesters block streets, there is no advance notice. You seem to feel that your actions come with no cost to yourselves. I think the police have been too soft. If every protest was met with water cannons and arrests , they would think twice before acting

Look KY
you are mixing up two issues.

You can argue that stopping leydig-geirs from doing something productive with their lives is an important cause and warrants blocking traffic including ambulances even without permission.
However that is not the subject of this thread.

This thread is about “Why is it OK to block off huge traffic arteries to make a parade, but when people protest a ” perceived “travesty or injustice, they get tremendous condemnation.”

THAT is what is being addressed. I (and others) are explaing the difference between permission and non-permission (note: not between parades and protests. parades are wrong without our permission and protests are fine with going through the proper channels, and yes there are of course times occasionally without going through the proper channels, but THOse arent justified because parades are ok)

You throw in ““All it takes is a phone call and a few bucks.”” but this is the whole distiction.

You ramble on about protests and the point of them. And you may even be right, I agree that protests occasionally justify inconveniencing others.
But they arent comparable to parades. Which is the theme of this thread.

Lets go back to my excellent driveway mashal.
1) We agree that blocking my driveway is wrong.
2) Now of course we agree that if you have permission (from me or anyone authorized to give permission like YOUR neighbor (not quite sure how he got that power but you say he did)) then you can block my driveway
3) We also agree (I assume) that in certain emergencies (eg an ambulance tending to my neighbor) blocking the driveway is also justified.
(let me know if you disagree with any of the above 3 points)

Now You want to block my driveway for something you deem important. picking up lunch, catching minyan, or whatever the case may be. Your justification for blocking it makes zero sense if you say “well you (or your representative) let Chaim block it when he dropped off a package (ie # 2), clearly having your driveway blocked doesn’t bother you, so Ican block it for reasons important to me” This makes zero sense, and is the question you asked in your OP.

On the other hand saying “Well in an emergency blocking your driveway is ok (#3) and this was an emergency because xyz…” THAT would make sense. OF course it would shift the discussion to how important the emergency is. But that is NOT the subject of this thread

KY
“But when a הכנסת ספר תורה blocks the street without a permit, I don’t call them חיות, because I personally connect with the event so I personally don’t begrudge what their doing.”

So I, (and I asume those posters who wrote the difference is permission) do. It is wrong to close of streets to traffic without permission period.
for Hachnosos sefer Torah, block party, protest or parade of any kind.

“When the gay pride parade blocks my street with a permit, I personally curse them out, even though they are legally correct.
That’s what I’m addressing here”

Except that isnt what you said. I oppose the message behind that parade, yet support thuir right to parade wit h(and only with) a permit. I support hachnasos sefer torah but oppose them when done without permission.

there is no comparison between the protests in Yerushalayim and parades. (which was your OP question)

“You said it beautifully”
thanks! I am quite proud of our driveway analogy, I’m not sure why you are still struggling with this

“…they made a vort you would probably be OK if I blocked your driveway even if I only know your neighbor and not you”
Lol! you obviously don,t live in NY. No I would be very upset if they didn’t say anything or leave a note of some sort.

“So the reason the protesters bother you is because you don’t agree with their cause!!”
Even if true that is not the subject at hand. Yo u are free to chaneg the subject of course. but be clear that Your OP has been answered and that yo understand the difference between protests and parades

reread the OP: “What’s the difference between protests and parades”

Simple question: If you block my driveway, Do you think this is a reasonable response:
“well you let Chaim block it when he did xyz, clearly having your driveway blocked doesn’t bother you, so I can block it for reasons important to me”
?

Being willfully naive .
no matter how much some want to try to claim otherwise how much the public opinion are behind or firmly resist long runa demonstration will certainly determine the long-run whether or
not they get a permit
Take a Civil disobedience page from Martin Luther King jr. and bro’s
(That is notwithstanding the 1977 the Supreme Court ruling in Skokie Nazi March)

And all the more so in Israel

cf.My comment above

Some commenters here need to place phone calls to some of the local politicians and askanim regarding the closing of streets for major events. In reality, when there are such closures, there are authorities around to help the situation. Emergency vehicles get rerouted, and are notified well in advance. Inquire from Hatzoloh if you wish. Even short notice events such as levayos R”L are handled professionally.

Without regard to the cause, just flooding the streets with crowds of people is criminal behavior. They may stay out of the street and chant their message. The media will report it, don’t worry. If some are deluded into believing that the degree of imposition and inconvenience is related to the success of the protest, take the action to the places that are directly involved, such as you police stations, government offices, etc. Get out of my street.

You do not have a Constitutional right to block my access to public property, not my sidewalk, street, shuls, etc. The location is determined not about where it has most impact on the subject matter, but on the degree of inconvenience and disruption to the public. Get outa there. It is not about the subject. The Chazon Ish referred to “Yehoreig ve’al yaavor”, not “Yaharog ve’al yaavor”. Big difference. You may be moseir your nefesh, not mine.

ZD
“They cannot block you from entering,”

So you agree.

KY
“So the driver knows it will take him hours to get to Columbia hospital instead of forty minutes
Big help that permit was.”

Of course it s a huge help, the ambulance driver knows not to try to go to Columbia that day and will find out if there are any hospitals in Brooklyn that are open that day

KY
“why do only some cars bother you when they block your driveway and not others”

Again because they had permission.

” and you’d be OK with it because he asked permission, but an hour later you get mad at someone who parked and went to Daven but didn’t ask permission, I’d think your crazy.”

Ah but thats not crazy at all. You see when someone asks permission, part of my letting him is getting his number so that If I need the driveway (or if he “forgets” and his mincha minyan turns into a mincha plus lunch plus a “quick ” meeting and a “few” “quick” errands, even if the guy is blocking my driveway for Yom Kippur Mincha, it cant possibly take more than 2 hours!) I can call him and he’ll come move it ASAP. Whether he is at minyan or at the grocery is no difference to me as long as he follows the procedure

“When someone blocks my driveway and I don’t get mad ואהבת לרעך”
That is truly wonderful. You get a big pat on the back, and a big sticker (and even bigger one in oilam haemes) but this doesn’t really have bearing on the conversation. ITs nice that you dont get mad, but it is still wrong for the person to block it (unless he knows that it is you and you dont mind which is as if he has permission, incidently do you mind sharing your address? (kidding))

“He can die from medical incompetence ”
Lol, and in this scenario the phones don’t work and they cant reach out to Columbia for guidance.
You are right, I looked into it and there is a spike in death rates on Days of parades because people with imaginary medical conditions that are so complicated that only Columbia can possibly stabilize them for a day cant get to Columbia. Of course Columbia’s phone lines get jammed as part of this huge influx of exotic emergencies that take place tying up their phone lines. (sounds about as real as the imaginary driveway in Brooklyn whose owner doesnt mind when people block it)

Seriously, I just notified Hatzolah to plan even for this imaginary eventuality by noting that the tunnel, Manhattan bridge, Brooklyn bridge are all open, so they can still get to Columbia , I would recommend the tunnel, to the WEst side, avoiding all marathon runners completely. all the way up to Columbia. Marathon will be Nov 20. See how great it is to plan ahead of time!

in answer to the original question: absolutely none

A.Where Are All The Commentators About The Ethiopian Protests

B.’ prominent recent event contributing to the reviving of the white supremacy fear took place in Charlottesville, Virginia in early August 2017. Perhaps, some ill-received statements by Pres. Trump brought to the events a prominence they would not otherwise have gained.

To make a long story short: An ad hoc group convened what was billed as a national meeting to “unite the right.” They also wanted to protest the forthcoming removal of a statue of a Confederate general. They requested and obtained a permit from the city. Some of the protesters wore Klan paraphernalia; some wore Nazi insignia. I think that most did neither. Given the theme of the meeting – “unite…”- it’s very unlikely that most or many did either. It’s hard to tell from the TV footage. Cameras targeted over and over the same handful of colorful and vividly signaling demonstrators. As usual, the reporters on the scene did not try to draw a random (representative) sample of the demonstrators. I don’t expect them to, of course.

There was a physical confrontation with counter-protesters who showed up without a permit (therefore, acting technically unlawfully) and ready for street battle. Some of those called themselves “antifa” (“anti-fascist,” of all things).’..