When Did Haman Die?

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  • #608804

    musser zoger
    Participant

    In the piyut “Vaamartem zevach Pesach” it indicates that Haman was hung on the gallows he made for Mordechai on 16 Nisan, but it’s mashma from the megillah that he died on Purim. Any answers?

    #943849

    Israeli Chareidi
    Participant

    The megilla says he was hanged right after Esther’s second feast – the second day of pesach. His 10 sons were killed 11 months later on 13 Adar and were hung up the following day.

    #943850

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    but it’s mashma from the megillah that he died on Purim.

    No, it’s not. In fact, the megillah makes it fairly clear that he did not die on Purim.

    Haman cast his lots on the 13th of Nissan.

    Esther fasted for three days (13-15 Nissan) and on the third day had her first meeting with Achashverosh and Haman.

    The second meeting (where Haman was sentenced to die) took place on the next day.

    Esther 8 makes it clear that some time passed between Haman’s death and the day that the king’s decree against the Jews was to be enacted (which was 13 Adar).

    The Wolf

    #943851

    yeshivaguy45
    Participant

    If I remember correctly, Esther invited Achasveirosh and Haman to the party, Esther told Achasveirosh that Haman was plotting to kill out Am Yisroel, Charvonah told Achashveirosh that Haman made a gallows for Mordechai, Achashveirosh said Hang him, and they hung him on that day. It’s the last pasuk in Perek Ches (I think it’s ches) and then afterwards Esther went to Achashveirosh, changed the gezeira and they hung the 10 sons of Haman on Purim.

    #943852

    truthsharer
    Member

    Hanged, not hung.

    And where does it say in the megillah that he was killed on Purim? Purim was when the Jews fought.

    #943853

    Oh Shreck!
    Participant

    The were ?? ??? ???? (Upside down according to photographer Gadi Pollack)

    #943854

    nishtdayngesheft
    Participant

    Truthsharer,

    I believe the truth is that they were killed ealier and then hung. Accordingly, the appropriate term is hung, not hanged. Hanged is only appropriate if they were killed that way.

    And that’s the truth you should be sharing.

    VDA”L

    #943855

    Sam2
    Participant

    Nisht: The bodies weren’t kept for 11 months. Haman was killed and hung (I believe you’re right in this grammatical instance, though we can let haifagirl decide) on Pesach. His sons were killed in the battle when they tried to help the enemies wipe out the Jews 11 months later.

    #943856

    musser zoger
    Participant

    Thanks everyone. Of course you are all correct. Not sure what i was thinking.

    #943857

    147
    Participant

    em>right after Esther’s second feast

    Every one else fasted 3 days = 72 hours Nisson 14th thru 16th, whereas Esther camed to the feast 2 hours before end of Nisson 16th, hence fasted 70 hours as says:- “uveChein Ovo El haMelech” where “Chein” is Gematriyo of 70 {72-2}, and at that feast Homon was hanged, so his Johrzeit is Nisson 16th.

    As trustsharer said, past tense of hang for people is hanged, and for all other usages, is hung.

    #943858

    nishtdayngesheft
    Participant

    147,

    That is not correct. Hanged in the past tense is correct if that was their execution. Not if they were killed first (in the war) then hung like a picture for the world to see.

    Truthsharer did not share the truth.

    #943859

    writersoul
    Member

    Haman was hanged, therefore he hung.

    However, his sons were killed by a different means and then hung.

    Make sense?

    #943860

    The little I know
    Participant

    In Targum on Megilas esther, it translates ???? ???? ?????? as “????? ?????”, which would correspond to Nisan 17, the first day of Chol Hamoed (if they kept 2 days of Pesach). Since Mordechai was a member of Sanhedrin, there might have been Kidush Hachodesh during Golus Bavel, and there might have been one day of Pesach. According to Rashi in Megilas Esther, Haman was killed on 16 Nisan. From Rashi in Shas – Maseches Megila, it is not so clear.

    Here are the facts, all directly derived from psukim:

    Haman’s decree was written on 13 Nisan.

    Esther decreed that Jews should fast for 3 days (night and day, or 24-hour fasts)

    Esther’s first party was at the end of the third day of fasting.

    The second party was the next day.

    Mordechai, in taking part in the decree to fast, was ???? the mitzvos of eating ??? ?????, and presumably ????? ????? ????? which is conditional on ??? ????? ????? ?????.

    Now, when were the three days of fasting. In order to have three complete days, fasting would need to begin on the 14th, with the 16th as the third day. This would explain Targum. One may argue that the first day was not complete. The calculation of ?? and ????, referring to 70 hours for esther, 72 for everyone else, is a commentary from the Gr”a, which is fascinating, but it is not the posuk. The custom is to consider the second day of Pesach, Nisan 16, as Haman’s Yahrtzeit. Many people sing ????? ???? as part of ?????? at the Yom Tov meal. Others drink an extra sip/cup of wine to take note of Haman’s death.

    May we always be zocheh to celebrate the demise of our enemies.

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