when happens when you kick a pebble on Shabbos

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  • July 19, 2015 5:09 pm at 5:09 pm #616047
    mik5
    Participant

    If a person is walking in a reshus harabbim or a karmelis on Shabbos and he kicks a pebble [or some other object] in the street a distance of dalet amos, did he transgress the melacha of carrying?

    July 19, 2015 7:00 pm at 7:00 pm #1094689
    mik5
    Participant

    RABBI Ribiat writes that kicking a pebble is forbidden, but maybe that’s only if he does it deliberately.

    August 2, 2015 8:52 pm at 8:52 pm #1094690
    mik5
    Participant

    Nu?

    August 3, 2015 4:31 am at 4:31 am #1094691
    zogt_besser
    Participant

    the action of kicking the rock is kilachar yad, which is muttar to move any muktzeh object (such as a rock). iirc the chazon ish is machmir and says even using your foot or other body part is assur to move the muktzeh thing.

    August 3, 2015 10:36 pm at 10:36 pm #1094692
    mw13
    Participant

    zogt_besser, i think mik5’s question was in regards to hotzah, not muktza.

    Do you know where that Chazon Ish is?

    August 4, 2015 6:18 pm at 6:18 pm #1094693
    zogt_besser
    Participant

    thank you mw13, I misunderstood the question. the chazon ish mekor about muktzah is on orach chaim 47:14. Regarding haavarah b’rishus harabim, its a great question. I wonder if kicking something is considered haavarah, since is there really akirah and hanacha? The Kitzur SA (82:1) defines haavarah as this: ????? ????? ???????? ???? ????? ??? ??? ???? ????, ??? ???? ???? ??? ????? ???? ??? ?????? ????

    Can we maybe be medayek from his lashon that since he doesn’t mention kicking (but does mention carrying, passing, or throwing), it is mutar?

    August 4, 2015 6:56 pm at 6:56 pm #1094694
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    There is an akirah and hanachah.

    August 4, 2015 6:56 pm at 6:56 pm #1094695
    mik5
    Participant

    zogt_besser – Look in Rabbi Ribiat’s sefer 39 Melachos, Laws of Hotzah, where he writes explicitly that kicking a pebble 4 amos in a reshus harabbim is forbidden. Akira means uprooting it from its original place; hanacha means putting it down (i.e., the pebble stops rolling).

    August 4, 2015 6:58 pm at 6:58 pm #1094696
    mik5
    Participant

    Muktza is not a problem even according to the Chazon Ish, who prohibits moving muktzah with any part of one’s body (except in a case where he sits on a bed where there is straw, and the straw happens to move a little, or a similar case) since here he has no intent at all to move muktzah and he is moving it indirectly and incidentally (in the course of walking).

    August 4, 2015 8:59 pm at 8:59 pm #1094697
    zogt_besser
    Participant

    I don’t have the book and I wonder what Rabbi Ribiat’s mekor is. I also don’t hear the chiluk you’re making to say that here muktzah isnt a problem acc. to the CI. If the rock was kicked on purpose, that is moving muktzah. If by accident and just through normal walking, it’s misaseik.

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