When is the Official Day..

What does that mean?

I think he’s talking about lag b’omer, and the yearly hock over whether you can listen to music already at night.

Gets crazier every year. I think I’ll sit it out this time.

everyone holds it’s next Tuesday except for R’ Schachter who holds it’s next Monday

And the Chazon Ish who holds that it isn’t.

I think this is like the fourth time in five years that it’s nidcheh. They should have just made it vav iyar to begin with.

what’s next Tuesday?

ya ya ya, we get it. we’re new here and arent on the same level of you holy long time members, the coffee room isnt what it used to be yadda yadda yadda

<i>I. M. Shluffin</i>

with you’re voice? 🙂

Little Froggie is a vulture?

Why don’t they push off Monday instead?

no sam, what do you mean?

To push off Monday–to postpone Monday.

Perhaps he meant that instead of pushing off the significance of Sunday to Monday and the significance of Monday to Tuesday, we should just push off the significance of Sunday to Tuesday and leave Monday as it is.

I don’t know why it is pushed off to Tuesday, so I am imagining it is because of Bahav. If so, the Taanis should be Nidche from the Chag instead of the other way around.

so it is Nidche more often than not. actually, Yom ha’Atzmaut is a Mukdom more often that it is a Nidche, because if it falls out on a Friday [as it will, 4 out of the next 5 years] it is brought forward to Thursday Iyyor 4th, & if it falls out on a Shabbos, it is brought forward to Thursday Iyyor 3rd.

Ironically, the Declaration of Independence was quickly moved up to a Friday afternoon of Iyyor 5th, to abrogate Chilul Shabbos, and not withstanding, when nowadays that date is a Friday as was in 1948, is brought forward to Iyyor 4th.

The reason is that the government is concerned This is a very naive To’us. The government is not 1 iota concerned about Chillul Shabbos. However:- the Rabbanut haRashi cares a lot about Kedushas haShabbos, and they are the ones who pushed for the change in timing of Yom haAtma’ut in a bid to abrogate Chillul Shabbos.

i am kind of curious if yeshiva ponovitch will display the flag this year or not and if not if this is the first time it will not.

LF: So you’re protesting the fact that someone used the word “nidche” or “Mukdam”? That’s still silly, no? They’re words. They’re not even Halachic terms. They are words which describe a state of something. The same state of which applies to Yom Ha’atzma’ut. There are plenty of reasons to not like the day. This is a silly one.

That aside, being unhappy about the day or the way people are talking about it does not excuse the incredibly inappropriate attack. Let’s not get bogged down in a separate point before this one is resolved.

And you do realize, of course, that just because there happens to be partying by non-Frum people on the same day for the same reason doesn’t make us wrong and celebrating it as well. Or will you stop having a Seder now too?

DY: I agree, Yom Ha’atzamos is not an inherently offensive term. Context is everything. Those who use the term use it incredibly disparagingly, often to indicate that the founding of the State and the Zionist movement were the cause of the Holocaust. It’s not a nice term, trust me. It’s one that even many Chareidim in Eretz Yisrael get offended when it’s used. If you ask people in Israel (certainly Dati Leumi, but also Chareidim) they will tell you that the phrase means that because they are happy that the State exists, the blood of every Jew who has died since 1890 or so is on their hands. It’s not something you say in polite company. Ever.

DaMoshe, you misunderstand me. You said nobody called it a Yom Tov, and then called it a holiday (which comes from the words “holy day”).

DY: Let me clarify what I meant. When I said Yom Tov, I meant a chag, like the Shalosh Regalim, Purim, or Chanukah. Days which are either in the Torah or in Shas. Days which Froggie was referring to.

When I said holiday, I meant a holiday as celebrated around the world today. In the USA we have July 4th as a holiday (along with plenty of others.)

Please note that I am NOT saying Yom Ha’atzmaut is on the same level as July 4th. I purposely am not making a statement either way on that topic, as it will just dissolve into name-calling and other insults, against both posters here and major Rabbonim.

Froggie: you were trying to start an argument? How nice. During sefirah, when we should be working on ahavas Yisrael, you want to start an argument. I’m sure Hashem is very happy with you right now.

My mother always told me, “If you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all!”

LF: Maybe you can call it whatever you want and maybe you thought it up yourself, but that doesn’t remove the offense at all. A very comparable case would be going up to an African-American, calling him the n-word, and then excusing it by saying that you didn’t mean any offense and you were just using a variation of the Latin word for “black”. See how well that goes for you.

To respond to the actual discussion of whether the day is one worthy of celebration, everyone agrees that many of the “founding fathers” of the State had Yiddishkeit nowhere near their minds. In fact, many wanted to be rid of traditional Yiddishkeit. No one disputes that. There were also those involved who did it because they wanted to be able to fulfill all of the Mitzvos as HKBH commanded us and to bring all Jews back to Eretz Yisrael.

All that aside, though, nothing comes from man. Dati Leumi and other Frum people don’t celebrate Yom Ha’atzma’ut because some people (Frum and not) signed a document in 1948. It is celebrated because, in 1949, almost the entire Jewish world because commemorating that day as a day of tremendous Chasdei Hashem where, not only did He give us a safe place where we can practice Yiddishkeit as we were meant to, but He also clearly showed us an absolute early sign of the coming Geulah BB”A.

You are attacking a straw man. You have decided that Yom Ha’atzma’ut is a man-made holiday and therefore should not be compared to holy days. But it is not a man-made holiday. At least, not for the Frum. For the Frum who celebrate it is an acknowledgement that Chazal said there is a Chiyuv Min HaTorah to make a Yom Tov (not Yontif as in Asiyas Melacha, but a Yom Tov as in a good day), replete with the saying of Hallel, whenever HKBH does a Nes for all of Klal Yisrael that serves as a function of heralding a Geulah and Binyan Beis Hamikdash.

Now, I am not saying it’s Muskam that all of the assumptions required to get to the logic in the last paragraph are Muchrach. I would be willing to admit that Ruba D’ruba of the Olam does not hold of all of that, and a large Rov doesn’t even hold of most of it. But don’t come tell me that there is nothing at all Jewish about it. There are many who have a Mesorah, from Moshe Rabbeinu at Har Sinai, that includes it, in the exact same manner that it includes Channukah and Purim. (Well, almost the exact. Chazal had the Koach to mandate with absolute terms that those days were an Aschalta D’Geulah and therefore Leis Man D’palig that they should be celebrated. We nowadays have to work with assumptions and we admit that, therefore, we could be wrong. Butt we’re not making it up on our own. We firmly believe that this falls into the parameters of making a Yom Tov.)

Oh, and a certain R’ Ovadia Yosef, among many others, would disagree with your contention that there is nothing Jewish at all about the day (though he is certainly not happy about those who say Hallel). See Yabiya Omer OC 5:35 and 6:41, if I recall correctly.

I was just trying to get us all into the bray for this year. Now I can safely bow out.

You really think that that’s mentchlich behavior or are you not obligated toward mentchlichkite when talking to tziyonim? regardless of the topic, starting a thread to make machlokes, and writing the above quoted post is rude.