December 30, 2012 7:06 pm at 7:06 pm #916328WolfishMusingsParticipant
Right. As I said, your view of Shivim Panim is just like Henry Ford’s idea of choice of color on the Model-T.
Never mind the fact that many people have the 100% legitimate halachic minhag of eating g’brokts, you’re ready to throw them all under the bus (figuratively speaking, of course). R. Ya’akov Kaminetsky ZT”L, did not eat g’brokts for a personal reason (not having to do with the potential for eating chometz), but did so up to a certain point in his life AND allowed his family to do so even when he, himself, no longer did. Are you saying that R. Ya’akov Kaminetzky very likely allowed his family to eat chometz? The same goes for the Chasam Sofer and the Vilna Gaon, who also ate g’brokts.
No, but apparently you know better than R. Ya’akov, the Chasam Sofer, the Vilna Gaon and others who eat g’brokts. Too bad R. Ya’akov didn’t consult with you before allowing his family to eat g’brokts… you might have saved them from eating chometz on Pesach.
Ditto with regard to two or more names. Lots of gedolim and other learned people today give their children more than one name.
Personally, my approach has been as it always has been. If I have a question about something, I ask my Rav. I don’t take pointers from you regarding eating g’brokts, nor on naming my kids or anything else. If I have a question regarding my kids’ names, I will ask my Rav. I will NOT go according to anything you post. Ditto with g’rokts or any other issue.
If you don’t like it — too bad. And, if in your view, asking my rav is my own “daas Baal Habayis” then fine, I wear that badge with pride.
The WolfDecember 30, 2012 7:36 pm at 7:36 pm #916329
Baal Haturim. That’s two names, no?December 30, 2012 9:05 pm at 9:05 pm #916330
WolfishMusings, You can collect kulah from various rabbonim, and hopefully you follow their chumras too (l’moshel Reb Yaakov would walk by Jewish shopkeepers in Kensingtom Market on shabbos, in downtown Toronto, and scream that them that it is Shabbos! And I hope ypu keep other hanhogas and chumras of the Gra – lmashel, how many matzos do you use at the seder?! Ditto with chumros of Chasam Sofer – he did not shave or wear a Borsolino hat!).
A kulah collector is a kal she’b’kalim. You can wear that badge with pride.
However, to mock someone who is me’orer that there are valid reasons to be machmir and be choshesh – that seems to cross the line and become a (paraphrased) “mekal u’mekalel ess harabim”.December 30, 2012 9:28 pm at 9:28 pm #916331WolfishMusingsParticipant
WolfishMusings, You can collect kulah from various rabbonim,
Perhaps you didn’t understand me the first time, so I’ll repeat it for you again.
When I have a question, I ask my rav. I don’t go “kula shopping.” I follow what my rav says — whether he’s machmir or meikel. My rav says that as long as you don’t have a minhag to not eat g’brokts, then eating it is fine. And my rav had no problem with giving my children more than one name.
If following *my* rav, as opposed to an anonymous internet poster makes me a “kula collector” in your eyes (even though it clearly doesn’t make me one), then all I have to say is that you need to have your eyes checked. If you think that I should ignore my rav to follow your chumros, then you are the wrong one, not I.
And that is my final word on the subject.
The WolfDecember 30, 2012 10:00 pm at 10:00 pm #916332oomisParticipant
Who had a number of names, including Re’uel, Petu’el, etc? (Hint: someone from Tanach.) Maybe we should start adding multiple names later, rather than at birth, to be fair to the traditionalists. “
HolyMoe – way to go! 🙂December 30, 2012 10:07 pm at 10:07 pm #916333JayMatt19Participant
Correct, the Node b’Yehuda writes against the practice of giving 2 names.
The Sdei Chemed disagees
Correct the Chazon Ish disapproved of the practice of giving 2 names, R’ Eliyashiv zt”l disagreed
The Chazon Ish did even suggest that if naming after someone who wasnt Shomer Shabbos, one SHOULD add a name. But one shouldnt name after 2 people.
Two names also are a segula for Kiyum Habanim, Arichus Yamim, and Chaim Aruchim, moreso than one name.
All the above was taken straight from the sefer “V’yekarei Shmo B’Yisroel” Starting with Daf Ayin Tes (the chapter about two names)
From all this, HALOCHA L’MA’ASEH – one should REFRAIN from giving two names unless it is necessary!!!
Sorry, there are plenty of Gedolim who hold that there is no issue, some even think it is a positive. Please view all sides, don’t see part of the story and decide to pasken improper “HALOCHA L’MA’ASEH”December 30, 2012 10:58 pm at 10:58 pm #916334akupermaParticipant
The early bibliographies of sefarim in the 17th century clearly showed that many people had double forenames (personal names, as opposed to surnames or nicknames). Albeit this was limited to authors of sefarim, who by definition are more “hashuv” than the average yid. Interesting, at that time the custom of Ashkenazim was to use the second of the two names as what one usually called the person (“Shmuel David” know to his friends as David). The discussions of writing a “get” (the only time it is really important to get the names right) also so that double personal names are not a new invention.December 30, 2012 11:22 pm at 11:22 pm #916335
Multiple first names seems to have started in the last 200-300 years. Before that, it was rare and nearly unheard of. Hence the fascination as to how and why it started. Is it a good thing or is there an inyan to go back to tradition by giving only one name?December 30, 2012 11:31 pm at 11:31 pm #916336ChulentMember
shmendrik: For thousands of years, until about 90 years ago, girls were only educated at home and women generally did not leave their homes too often. Should we go back to our holy tradition and close the Bais Yaakovs?December 30, 2012 11:32 pm at 11:32 pm #916337the sadigura rebbeMember
one of the many reasons are from kabbalah. b`kitzur it involves neshamos and names being rushed up to fulfill the heavenly quota in order to speed up the arrival of moshiach ben yosef.
sincerely the rebbeDecember 30, 2012 11:37 pm at 11:37 pm #916338yytzParticipant
Milhouse, I looked in the back of Gutnick edition chumash, which lists the Tur’s name as Yaakov Meir ben Asher. But I googled a bit and couldn’t find independent confirmation of that. So it was either the editor’s mistake, or isn’t common knowledge for some reason.December 31, 2012 12:12 am at 12:12 am #916339Matan1Participant
Things like chasidism and kollel are inventions of the past 300 yearsDecember 31, 2012 12:23 am at 12:23 am #916340
Shmendrik, by being Makpid at this point you are actually breaking tradition, no matter how it started.December 31, 2012 12:26 am at 12:26 am #916341
By the way, regarding the Baal Tosafos Reb Yaakov Yisroel, it may have been a family name much like Isserel.December 31, 2012 1:45 am at 1:45 am #916342
yytz – I opened up a Tur and the author is listed as Rabbenu Yaakov, likewise in his hakdamah, he brings remez to Yaakov. No mention of Meir anywhere!
Chulent – your question comparing multiple first names to bais yaakov (which both are fairly “modern”) is missing a few beans to make a good cholent.
The BY type of system for girls education was accepted by all gedolim. In contrast, the use of multiple first names was expressed as a disappointment by a number of gedolim (Chasam Sofer, Noda B’yehuda Chazon Ish etc.).
HaLeiVi, there is an inyan to re institute old minhagim that were eroded over time for various reasons. Consider the lighting of chanuka licht al pesach baiso (as many now do in EY), the lighting of shabbos candles by unmarried girls (an old minhag of the Solivetchik household and others) etc. However, you are right, this must be done with caution since there might be a valid reason why the tradition changed!
I note that the Baal Shem Tov only had one name, yet among the Lubavitch Rebbes they all have multiple first names except the 4th Rebbe, Rabbi Shmuel.December 31, 2012 2:49 am at 2:49 am #916343americaisoverParticipant
its a chassidish thing like everything else Chassidish it became Litvash notice everything Chassidish has become mainstream Litvash like white shirts, Yiddish and seperate everything.December 31, 2012 4:26 am at 4:26 am #916344
americaisover, Are you saying that Chassidim are c”v taking over the Jewish world?! That there soon won’t be any real Litvish?! That the world is coming to an end?!
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