When will the chareidim join the army like the Chashmonaim?

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  • #616784

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    I’ll tell you when.

    Just like the chashmonaim–when it’s time to fight the chilonim.

    #1115227

    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    I thought the chashmonaim fought the yevanim not the misyavnim

    #1115228

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    I thought they fought both.

    #1115229

    akuperma
    Participant

    Hopefully it will never come to that. The chareidi gedolim are all opposed to killing Jews, even if they are non-religious and/or zionists. It would take an extreme provocation (banning bris milah, closing down yeshivos, perhaps conscription of boys and girls) to cause the hareidim to follow the route of the Hasmoneaim and go to war against the modern day Misyavanim (who currently run the government in Eretz Yisrael).

    Another factor is that after the Misyavanim (in control of the government in Eretz Yisrael) lost, they were able to call in the local Greek army from Syria. The zionists have no outside help they can count on as most of the world considers them to be criminals. Indeed, if the haredim were willing and able to take up arms against the zionists, it would be the frum insurgents who most likely could find outside allies from the many countries at war with the zionists.

    While in an Israel in which Lapid was Prime Minister and Avidgdor Lieberman was the principle opposition, it could create a situation in which instead of throwing dirty diaper or lighting trash can the hareidim would be forced to armed rebellion – that is an unlikely scenario.

    #1115230

    Bookworm120
    Participant

    The word “Hellenist” sounds a teeny, tiny bit like “Chiloni.” Coincidence?

    I didn’t know Popa was the OP until I opened this thread, so I had this rant prepared:

    In all seriousness, not all folks are cut out for the army. And not all folks are cut out for attending a university campus either. One shouldn’t be forced to take part, nor should one be forced to not take part. People need to be educated about their options (and in the case of Charedim and the [Israeli] army, they should have real options), and make informed decisions about what path they wish to take.

    That said, Popa, ha! You made me look!

    #1115231

    homer
    Member

    The original Chashmonoim army was an army of 12. . . . . I would assume there are already 12 chareidim in the army? I could be wrong. . . .

    #1115232

    Bookwarm

    “In all seriousness, not all folks are cut out for the army. And not all folks are cut out for attending a university campus either.”

    when klal yisroel is in major need to save their neshamos from being lost to yiddishkeit C”V people will not need to be prepared for war. the Chashmonaim stood up for Hashem without having the full gear to fight the greeks & Hashem saved them (read al hanisim) we need to show Hashem our mesiras nefesh & prepared to give up our lives for Hashem & his torah & then hashem will take care of the rest.

    #1115233

    Avi K
    Participant

    And not all are cut out for full-time learning. How about a compromise? Those who are star learners will for a new unit called Cheil HaTalmud. They will open each seder with a dedication of their learning for the success of the IDF and give shiurim to the troops. Those who are cohanim will exhort them before they go into combat.

    #1115234

    apushatayid
    Participant

    I believe it will be when the chief of staff calls out Mi lahashem eilay.

    #1115235

    The word “Hellenist” sounds a teeny, tiny bit like “Chiloni.” Coincidence?

    As much as anything can be said to be coincidental.

    According to Wiktionary, “hellenist” is

    from Ancient Greek ?????????? (hellenistes) “somebody who speaks Greek”, from ?????????? (hellenizein) “to speak Greek, to make Greek, to become Greek, hellenize”, from Ancient Greek ????? (Hellen) “Greek”.

    “Chiloni,” on the other hand, is a Modern Hebrew word derived

    from the Hebrew “chol,” meaning “ordinary, not holy.”

    #1115236

    stam a deya
    Member

    I will tell you when! When the army is not used as a melting pot to secularize Israeli society which is part of it’s stated goal – and that will never happen. And we all know that Nachal Chareidi is a bunch of hogwash if you have been following the news with that. Simply put, the Israeli do not need us there, they just don’t want us out of Bais Medrash. It is just part of the long running battle to destroy yiddishkeit especially now when they are scared out of their wits that the medina is slowly (or actually pretty quickly) becoming more and more chareidi. By the time we take over, there will not be a need for the army because by then Moshiach will come !

    #1115237

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    This was going around a few years ago

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    #1115238

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Ubiquitin: yes, that is what I was responding to.

    And in the real story the father would respond that chareidim will carry weapons and join an army when its time to fight against the chilonim.

    #1115239

    mdd
    Member

    PBA, Ubuquitin made an excelent point. DO you have anything of substance to say?

    #1115240

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    I wasnt making any point (at least I dint mean to)

    I was sharing a humorous piece of satire that all can find funny (even if disagreeing with the practical application)

    The second half which is a conversation with a chiloni parent is (in my opinion) even funnier and more biting than the first

    #1115241

    Avi K
    Participant

    While it’s true that that is only in a milchemet reshut and we are now in an ongoing milchemet mitzva, the fact that the fearful person is worried because of his aveirot show that he frummest should go first (cf. the greatest talmidei chachamim arer mechallel Shabbat for pikuach nefesh). Maybe such a law will stop people from saying “Mirror, mirror on the wall – who is the frummest of them all?”

    #1115242

    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Ubequitin,

    If I was the father I would’ve said and look what happened to them

    Additionally do you know the reason why we eat donuts and latkes on Chanukah?

    To show we don’t need to be physically fit in order for us to win wars 😉

    #1115243

    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    “I wasnt making any point (at least I dint mean to)

    I was sharing a humorous piece of satire that all can find funny (even if disagreeing with the practical application)”

    thank you for clarfying that – i was breaking my brain trying to figure out what ‘point’ i missed

    #1115244

    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    ca – i knew that my fried food obsession was based in spiritual reasons

    #1115245

    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Avi,

    You know what charad in chareidi means?

    It means to tremble, chareidim know they have aveiros so they shouldn’t go

    #1115246

    akuperma
    Participant

    If the Israeli goverment (a.k.a. “the zionists”) were to attempt to ban Torah education, conscript women, require all students to attend government school, ban Bris Milah, etc., actions that are advocated by many secular Jews in Eretz Yisrael and elsewhere, and were also implemented by the Misyavanim who were running the government in Eretz Yisrael as clients for the Greek regime based in what is now Syria – then it would clearly a a Milhemes Mitzvah to oppose them and the Hareidim would be ready to put down their sefarim and go to war (as opposed to the current political and real estate dispute with the Yismaelim, which isn’t about Torah or Mitsvos, and should be treated as any other dispute about dinei mamonos with a submission to arbitration).

    #1115247

    karlbenmarx
    Participant

    the modern day Hellenists is the Israeli government and their lackey IDF, we must fight the Israeli apikoras (Greek word) government with all our strenght, it is holding back Moshiach.

    #1115248

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Modern day Hellenists worship the ancient Greek Gods, including the Olympians, nature divinities, underworld deities and heroes. The Israeli government does not.

    #1115250

    screwdriverdelight
    Participant

    Someone showed me yesterday

    ??????? ?????? ??”? ?”? ???? in the back of ???? ?????,

    ???? ?

    in which he talks about going ????? and going to war against the ???????? both of then and of now. (He talks about the Jewish ???? ??, too, Joseph.)

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