When young adult leaves to be Frei
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- This topic has 113 replies, 36 voices, and was last updated 11 years, 11 months ago by EzratHashem.
June 14, 2011 5:47 pm at 5:47 pm #776752
Ive heard from Frei people that a Frum therapist is the worst person to send them to .
They get to a point of ” No More Rabbis” and feel cornered when you tryJune 14, 2011 5:49 pm at 5:49 pm #776753HealthParticipant
chalilavchas – Thank you. It sounds like you’re the parent, maybe you can have a sibling or s/o else your child is close to -to try somehow to get him/her to see s/o!
“Another very painful thing about this is being judged and nitpicked by frum people, who analyze how the parents are to blame (until it happens to them).”
Ignore them -they will have to give a Din v’cheshbon on all their talk! I’ve learned to ignore the world. In my situation, it was my own family (not immediate) who caused the whole situation which I have now.June 14, 2011 5:56 pm at 5:56 pm #776754HealthParticipant
zahavasdad -There are many frum, female therapists. Maybe they wouldn’t be so antagonistic towards them.June 14, 2011 6:36 pm at 6:36 pm #776755EzratHashemMember
chalilavchas: One point, sometimes it’s best to be careful not to back them into a corner where they have to take a position. Once they verbalize their view on something, it may be harder for them to backtrack. I hear your struggle in how to love. It’s especially hard when you live under the same roof. Realize it is a nisayon, heaven sent, to keep our resentment in check. Not really sure there is much you can suggest to the young adult; just because a therapist practices therapy doesn’t mean they have the skill or experience in this parsha; and if the kid is very bright, it is more complicated because they have to be addressed in a suitable way. Also, might be useful to ask questions such as “What do you need from me; what can I do for you”?June 14, 2011 7:15 pm at 7:15 pm #776757chalilavchasMember
Health, this adult child thinks theyre smarter than all the therapists. Aint gonna happen.
Ezrat, Im being told clearly by this child what they need- $$$. Do I ever say no? Its actually advantageous for them to go OTD because everyone advises parents to give everything they can and do everything they can (spoil) to make the child happy, so the OTD person has it better than ever- more freedom and more money, etc.June 14, 2011 7:49 pm at 7:49 pm #776758
Its not true that people OTD give their Kids “everything” otherwise you would see every kid driving a Lamborghini, ever girl with a hemes bag and every guy wearing a Armani Suit.
You do need to cut off the cash and make them get a Job.June 14, 2011 8:07 pm at 8:07 pm #776759get a lifeMember
chalilavachus- -I feel your pain. As someone who has a sibling OTD (also very intellectual) I can tell you one thing, It is NOT the parents fault. I saw some people write that they find it hard to believe that it is not a disfunctional family. I am telling you that it is not as uncommon as people think. Yes there are risk factors but many “normal” famlies have been hit with this maka.
In my siblings case, my parents did all they could for the child. As a sibling I can see nothing that my parents did wrong. This is from a time prospective (over ten years!)For a while some of the siblings managed to keep a realationship but today we rarly have anything to do with the sibling as everytime we spoke it came down to “prove there is a G-d”.
If the child needs $$$ perhaps come to an agreement about a weekly/monthly sum. This might give over the feeling that you care about them without your feeling that it is a bottomless pit.
We were very lucky that when the sibling was at home they did not try to influence other childer. If this OTD child is influencing the other children perhaps you need to offer to pay for rent for them. However take into account that this might backfire to “you are kicking me out of my home and dont care about me”
In fact I can imagine that most anything you do will end up being twisted to the OTD child’s liking. So keep in mind that you need to take YOURSELF and the rest of the family into account as well. Dont “ignore” your needs or other childrens needs because you are afraid of alienting the one child. Sometimes you can never get things right (especially with this kind of child)And no a therapist is not going to happen with this kind of person. I know that only to well.
I know it feels like the pain will never go away, Just keep reminding yourself that everyone has bechira and that although you gave this child the tools to make the right descions he/she has chosen otherwise and it is not reflective on you as a person or as a parent.June 14, 2011 8:14 pm at 8:14 pm #776760chalilavchasMember
zahavasdad, theyre a f/t student going for an advanced degree.June 14, 2011 8:23 pm at 8:23 pm #776761WolfishMusingsParticipant
You do need to cut off the cash and make them get a Job.
You can find a Job in most seforim stores, although he’s usually sold as part of the larger set. 🙂
The WolfJune 14, 2011 9:08 pm at 9:08 pm #776762
I have no problem with College, I am a graduate myself (I dont have an advanced degree, only a lowly BA)
I did work when I went to college, but I realize not everyone can.June 14, 2011 9:12 pm at 9:12 pm #776763goldenkintMember
first let me say i really know how painful this is. second , i think it is very important that you get daas Torah and guidance from a Rov in dealing with this. Yes, your young person won’t speak to the Rov, or tHe therapist but you can ,specifically to get guidance on how to deal with this.
Be careful not to listen to others, i mean friends and family especially “the most frum ones”, because they are not necessarily qualified to give advice.
I know of a case where an otd child met someone and got engaged. several people said you can’t go to the wedding because they’re not frum, and its not a simcha, etc. the parents consulted a very frum Rov who after hearing everything said 1) you can go to the wedding. 2) it is a simcha and you may dance 3)Tell the “frum” relatives to call me and i will tell them how to behave. i must qualify that the couple in this case want to try and make a wedding which respects thier parents but also has their choices too. it is complicated and the rov said to only invite friends who will know that one of the families is not frum and it won’t be a typical charedi wedding. tHE ROV ALSO SAID THAT HE WOULD PERSONALLY TRY AND COME TO THE WEDDING HIMSELF. so try to find a rov who will guide you and May Hashem give you help in knowing how and what to say.
P>S> if you are interested i can tell you about the segula of Rav Fischer to help someone return in Teshuva. it involves baking challa for Shabbos, a brick, going to the kever of a tzaddik. I personally spoke to Rav AHaron Fischer, of Yerushalayim whose father told about this segula and he told me exactly how to do it. i have been told it works.
i decided to put in the directions because i may not have time later so here goes.
1)You must buy a brick. it cannot be a brick you find , it must be purchased. 2) write the name of the person, ben/ bas , the mother’s name, on the brick in marker.3) prepare Challah in the normal way. take challah, with or without a bracha depending on the amount of flour.4)put the brick in the oven and then put the challah in the oven.5) bake the challah with the brick in the oven.6) take out the challah and use for Shabbos. BUT LEAVE THE BRICK IN THE OVEN THE ENTIRE WEEK UNTIL THE FOLLOWING fRIDAY. you may use your oven as usual but do not take out the brick. 7) the following Friday prepare and bake a Challah again.8) take out your Challah and use it on Shabbos. Take the brick and with a marker write the following on it.
??? ????? ???? ?? ?? ???? ???/? ?? ______ ??/? _______ ??? ????/? ??????.
8) take the brick to the kever of a tzaddik, read out the passuk on it and put the brick on the kever of the tzaddik. 9) daven that Hashem should help!!! ( some add give tezedaka and say Tehillim but that wasn’t included in Rav Fischer’s instructions.
He also told me you can only do it one brick at a time in the oven and you have to eat the challah on shabbos.( which means that you have to have 2 weeks per person you want to do it for)June 14, 2011 9:14 pm at 9:14 pm #776764
I might suggest to see if you can get them to hang around Jewish religious groups on Campus so they can meet fellow religious jews at the college.
There will be a Rabbi at the group who can better talk to them in the college environemnt
Most universities in NYC have such groups (Even Colleges like St Johns or Fordham)June 14, 2011 10:09 pm at 10:09 pm #776765RABBAIMParticipant
Unconditional ahava……… and tons of Tefillah
The Ari zl wrote a tefillah for the return of the son of of a Talmid. printed in some siddurimJune 15, 2011 4:03 am at 4:03 am #776766EzratHashemMember
Chalilavchas: would it help for you to consult a rav about how to handle the money? Giving everything without restraint does not seem like a good solution, although I’ve heard this advice many times . Give love, yes, but unlimited money?? No child, OTD or not, has ever been helped to grow into a responsible and caring adult by being given all the money they desire, IMHO. Better to give wisely and thoughtfully. There are ways a full time student can earn money–do they get a stipend in school? If not they can take on part time work or get student loans. This is not because the parent’s can’t afford it, but just to put a cap on the incessant demand for money, which is not healthy.
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