July 20, 2012 1:25 pm at 1:25 pm #888929thehockMember
What is holding you back from getting a filter installed?
I believe some geder must be implemented if, as advised, you will not confront your husband. It seems clear that something has to change, and if it will not be as a result of direct talks, it must be through direct action, i.e. implementation of filtering. Many people use split passwords for filter overrides. The husband has half the password and the wife has the other half.
Be kind to yourself and don’t blame yourself for his mistakes. This is not about you – much as it pains you and you are affected, you have one nisayon here, and he has another, and there is a difference.
Please find a rebbetzin or teacher or someone in a position to mentor with whom you have a good connection, and who you feel can support you through this. It is possible to rebuild a marriage that has suffered a blow. “Hazorim bedima berinah yiktzoru”.
I wish you much hatzlacha.
I’m sorry to see so much bad advice and unsupportive comments. For a woman, this is devastating. Try to imagine how you would feel if your best friend pulled off a Madoff job, add to it the nature of a woman and what she seeks in marriage, and you might have a bit more compassion in your response.July 20, 2012 1:44 pm at 1:44 pm #888930repharimMember
@jbaldy22 Really? Are you kidding me? Tell me how many psychologists did we have before psychology was even a word? You don’t automatically need to send someone to a mental institute because he doesn’t perfectly conform to your world. Everyone is different and this issue is so common and so so easily avoided. Also, ohr chodosh is wrong as are you. One of the wifes responsibilities is to keep her husband in check. If he’s not going to shul – nag him till he goes, if he doesn’t learn bug him till he does. If he does stupid masochistic things on the internet you stop him so he can’t do it anymore. You *DO NOT CARE* about your husband if you do not help him work on himself. PERIOD. He is destroying his soul, his marriage and his children by watching that stuff. You gave absolutely ZERO logical explanation as to why my method is not simple and effective. Think two steps ahead my friend of *your* solution. Send him to a psychologist? Really? REALLY? You honestly think that sending a guy to a psyc is LESS embarrassing then installing a filter? I mean….are you for real?
@Bustercrown your rav most likely did not understand the severity of the situation. You MUST tell him, the utter shame that he would face if any other person in the world told him other than you would be farrrrrr greater….think about it, he would know that not only do you know but you went around talking about it to other people. Do you really think his shame would be less like that?
You are the *best* person to intervene. You must get his trust back. Explain to him that he lied and really hurt your trust, explain to him that you understand that he gave in to his evil inclination and that you are there to help him. Don’t be stupid and avoid it until it eats your marriage inside out. Don’t be stupid and listen to these idiots who tell you to send him to a psychologist- THAT alone could destroy your marriage from the shame of knowing that you told other people.
If you are not strong enough to do this yourself then you do something even better – install the filter on the computer, password it – tell him that you are installing it for the children. If he asks you for the password counter his question with asking him why he needs it. Obviously he will make up a legit site to go to and just tell him that if he needs to go to a site you will be more than happy to help him – but under no circumstance should you give him the password. Don’t ever let him watch you type it in, don’t make the password anything he will ever figure out. Check on the computer occasionally that the software is installed – you never know because he could uninstall it. IF he does uninstall it – the only thing you can do at this point is tell him the truth and do it nicely, calmly, understandingly and he will thank you in the long run.July 20, 2012 3:55 pm at 3:55 pm #888931
repharim -“You are the *best* person to intervene. You must get his trust back. Explain to him that he lied and really hurt your trust, explain to him that you understand that he gave in to his evil inclination and that you are there to help him. Don’t be stupid and avoid it until it eats your marriage inside out.”
I see no reason for her to say anything to him, if she doesn’t want to.
“Don’t be stupid and listen to these idiots who tell you to send him to a psychologist- THAT alone could destroy your marriage from the shame of knowing that you told other people.”
You have Not yet arrived in the 21st century. If the marriage will end after seeing a Proper good therapist -then this is probably the best thing. You and others like you, further Stigmatize going for Mental Health care in the Frum community.
“If you are not strong enough to do this yourself then you do something even better – install the filter on the computer, password it – tell him that you are installing it for the children. If he asks you for the password counter his question with asking him why he needs it. Obviously he will make up a legit site to go to and just tell him that if he needs to go to a site you will be more than happy to help him – but under no circumstance should you give him the password. Don’t ever let him watch you type it in, don’t make the password anything he will ever figure out. Check on the computer occasionally that the software is installed – you never know because he could uninstall it. IF he does uninstall it – the only thing you can do at this point is tell him the truth and do it nicely, calmly, understandingly and he will thank you in the long run.”
While, I’m not per se against your Eitza, it most probably wouldn’t work. It could work, if he does this only once in awhile. If a person is truly addicted, the spouse Will Not be able to stop the addiction. There are many ways to skin a cat -when there’s a will -then there’s a way. He could just go elsewhere outside the house, even if she managed to stop it totally in the house. You are totally ignorant about how Mental Health and Medical Prof deal with addictions. Let me give you an example -your Eitza is as likely to work as s/o who wants their spouse to stop smoking or drinking and decides the best way to do this is to hide the pack or the bottle. Does any Mature person think this will really stop the person’s addiction?July 20, 2012 4:31 pm at 4:31 pm #888932
@repharim filters only work to prevent people who want to be protected from seeing inappropriate things. it is not at all effective if someone is interested in looking at such things. also you seem to be very biased against psychologists and social workers – seeing one does not mean you belong in a mental institution and they can be extremely helpful in identifying and dealing with the causes of such issues. your solution is not logical nor effective because you have to understand that very likely you are dealing with an addict – laying down the law to an addict is probably the stupidest thing you could do.July 20, 2012 5:25 pm at 5:25 pm #888933tdsdartMemberJuly 20, 2012 5:34 pm at 5:34 pm #888934EnglishmanMember
I have to agree that many therapists can destroy a marriage and family. One must be wise to whom they see. One’s mora d’asra should be the first stop.
That being said, if a wife tries to become her husband’s mashgiach, not only won’t it help, but it’ll backfire bigtime.July 20, 2012 7:00 pm at 7:00 pm #888936repharimMember
If a wife cannot talk to her husband about anything and everything then you already have a problem to begin with. No therapist is going to fix this problem for you. They are not magic pills and they actually rarely help. I know several people who have gone to therapists, not a single one of them told me anything good that came out of it other than, “maybe” it helped.July 20, 2012 8:38 pm at 8:38 pm #888937July 20, 2012 10:00 pm at 10:00 pm #888938scienceprogramMember
Bustercrown, forget about him for a moment-How will you deal with this? You might eventually get fed up because you are keeping a deep dark secret which is that you KNOW what he is doing.
The fact that in a marriage both he and you are keeping secrets from each other already affects a marriage for the negative, why? one of the foundations of a marriage is trust=he already broke it because of his addiction.
But, you will become angrier with him each time he lies about what he is doing.
The rav probably did not understand the entire situation maybe you did not tell him how it made you disrespect him in your heart….
But,a big part of marriage is helping each other through the challenges of life-this is a challenge and he fell -he needs to know that you WILL HELP HIM THROUGH THIS and let him know that he broke your trust which is a foundation of marriage
tell him you are shocked that he lied but understand why but now he must work on being honest with you and if he falls, he must feel comfortable telling you and that you will support him-people fall and get up, fall and get up….
Otherwise, if he continues this without knowing you know,you might just get so “eaten up” by his lying, behavior, and disrespect him, get angrier… and want out eventually. What about YOU, YOUR EMOTIONS, IS IT GOOD TO BOTTLE THEM UP? HOW WILL IT AFFECT YOUR MARRIAGE?
It is hard for me to put all that I want to say into words, so I hope you understand this.July 20, 2012 10:02 pm at 10:02 pm #888939far eastMember
Repharim- “If you are not strong enough to do this yourself then you do something even better – install the filter on the computer, password it – tell him that you are installing it for the children. If he asks you for the password counter his question with asking him why he needs it. Obviously he will make up a legit site to go to and just tell him that if he needs to go to a site you will be more than happy to help him – but under no circumstance should you give him the password. Don’t ever let him watch you type it in, don’t make the password anything he will ever figure out. Check on the computer occasionally that the software is installed – you never know because he could uninstall it. IF he does uninstall it – the only thing you can do at this point is tell him the truth and do it nicely, calmly, understandingly and he will thank you in the long run.”
I pray to God that nobody takes this advice. This can destroy a marriage much faster then an addiction can. You dont understand how an addicts brain works. In his head He sees a goal, and then he needs the goal. By you manipulating his environment in order to stop him from achieving his goal, You become the source of his frustrations. This tears people apart. Your husband is not a child whom your babysitting. He is your EQUAL partner in life and it is your duty as a spouse to treat him like the adult that he is. IMO there is no one way to fix these type of situations. Every situation is different and its a decision that the couple needs to discuss.July 21, 2012 12:05 am at 12:05 am #888940EnglishmanMember
A wife needs to love and respect her husband in good times and bad. In easy time and in tough times. When you are getting along and when you are not. In peace and in war. You should put negative feeling aside at all times (though work on making them to positive) and love, honor, cherish and respect him at all times, regardless.July 21, 2012 7:55 pm at 7:55 pm #888941
far east- totally agree. its like a wife telling her husband she bought out all the cigaretes in the state and dumped them in the river so her teen wont smoke. most addicted husbands will get in the car and go on a road trip.
i want to amend my advice- better then starting with a therapist, go to an acclaimed chosson or kallah teacher who deals with these matters. theyre way more involved then a rov can be, and they sometimes can be the therapist, too.July 22, 2012 5:33 am at 5:33 am #888944
Englishman -“I have to agree that many therapists can destroy a marriage and family.”
Absolute dishonesty. Can you even name one, let alone many that done this?July 22, 2012 5:48 am at 5:48 am #888945
repharim -“No therapist is going to fix this problem for you. They are not magic pills and they actually rarely help. I know several people who have gone to therapists, not a single one of them told me anything good that came out of it other than, “maybe” it helped.”
While it’s true that therapy is No magic pill, most of the time it does help. Because it didn’t help a few of your friends means it doesn’t work on most people? Perhaps your friends don’t want it to help? You can only help people who want to change, not those who don’t.
The same thing happens in medicine. People tell you the antibiotic didn’t work. What they don’t tell you is that they stopped taking it early before the duration ended that they were supposed to take it. This is human nature -to blame the failure on something or s/o else, instead of themselves. When your dealing with Mental/emotional issues this rationalization -that it’s not them – is even more common!July 22, 2012 5:56 am at 5:56 am #888946The little I knowParticipant
You frighten me greatly. We have a calamity today with chosson and kallah teachers. Rabbonim & therapists are stuck trying to repair the damage wreaked on innocent young people who were misguided prior to marriage, and who got incompetent shalom bayis advice after. I know of several who are so hazardous that some rabbonim would like to stop them completely or at least assur them from any counseling. In this forum, I won’t mention names, but I wish I could do so to protect victims. I’m unsure why you and a few other commenters are anti-therapy. I’m not anti anyone, but they must have some training. Don’t ask me to fix your car or pasken a shailoh. Don’t make the tragic mistake of having marital issues treated by someone unqualified.July 22, 2012 5:59 am at 5:59 am #888947
toi -“go to an acclaimed chosson or kallah teacher who deals with these matters. theyre way more involved then a rov can be, and they sometimes can be the therapist, too.”
This IMHO, is worse than going to a Rov. All the C/K teachers that I know are just regular people who teach the Halachos.
A therapist who deals with addictions or a Rov (there are very few) that deal with these types of issues are the ones to go to.
Did you know that even MSW’s actually had to go to school for many years to get where they are now? Most are highly qualified.
What qualifications do C/K teachers have?July 22, 2012 6:09 am at 6:09 am #888948ohr chodeshMember
The “training” therapists have makes them no better or more qualified than many people without that kind of “training”.July 22, 2012 6:21 am at 6:21 am #888949The little I knowParticipant
You scare me, too. I have no problem listening to the ideas or opinions of lay people. But if my health (or mental health) is on the line, I will NOT base my future on someone without training. My earlier comment was not based on preference or policy. It was based on an accumulation of many experiences. There are popular C&K teachers out there who bear the responsibility of many gittin as well as shattered families. We should all be mispallel that these people should find success in a career change, for the good of the Klal.July 22, 2012 7:12 am at 7:12 am #888951tahiniMember
Bustercrown , you are most definitely not alone, there are many women in your situation.
Really important to realise the difference between men and women and also the even bigger difference between the man you care for and respect and the inappropriate behaviour you have discovered.
To make a marriage work chemistry is need, both for frienship and marital relations, if you recognise you have that chemistry you can both make it work, but be open and honest, not with your friends or family but with your spouse. Deceit and lies create far more problems than looking at inappropriate stuff on the internet, sure it is wrong to visit inappropriate sites, but the lies and deceit needed to get to them undermine marriage, not a few adult clips or images. With gentleness and respect for yourself first work out how to approach the man you love about this matter, then approach him. Rabbonim and therapists can help, but the desire for shalom bayis is something that needs to be established first.
Nice frum jewish girls are taught to behave with modesty but once married we should remember the importance of attraction and chemistry. Your husband does not love you less, this is about furtive thrill seeking . Recognise men are humanbeing created by Hashem to have different needs to us, recognise your marriage for what it is and can be and work with him. A woman no less than a man is entitled to a fulfilling marriage based on trust and honesty, alongside chemistry. All three can be worked on in a marriage, in fact later on this could be a turning point which could lead to a long term happier marriage and relationship.
Above all else, be discreet and selective in whom you confide, marriages can be warped by ill considered advice and confidantes.July 22, 2012 12:32 pm at 12:32 pm #888954ohr chodeshMember
Little you know: There are many overpriced therapists who bear responsibility of many gitin as well as shattered families. Their “training” is that divorce is simply another “alternative” that their “client” ought to consider if it would make them feel better. Then they often jump on unnecessarily pushing the divorce “alternative”.July 22, 2012 2:56 pm at 2:56 pm #888955
@ohr chodesh there are some bad therapists and bad rabbonim therefore you are saying no one should use either? what’s your alternative solution? yes, people should do their homework before picking a therapist but there are certain circumstances such as dealing with addictive personalities that a therapist may be best equipped to handle.July 22, 2012 4:15 pm at 4:15 pm #888956
Toi -“believe me, im very close to a number of extrememly qualified chosson and kallah teachers, and i know theyve saved marriages from these problems.”
Not to knock the teachers that you know, but why are they more qualified than s/o with a degree? Anybody can save a marriage, but that doesn’t mean people should go running to them. If you personally know s/o that gives good Marriage advice -then you can go to them personally, but you can’t send others to them. This would be akin to telling people – go to alternative medicine guys instead of their MDs because you’ve had good experience with them.
The Gov. issues licenses for a reason!July 22, 2012 4:26 pm at 4:26 pm #888957
ohr chodesh -“There are many overpriced therapists who bear responsibility of many gitin as well as shattered families. Their “training” is that divorce is simply another “alternative” that their “client” ought to consider if it would make them feel better. Then they often jump on unnecessarily pushing the divorce “alternative”.”
You sure have a lot of accusations -how about backing this up with some proof? Although I’ll grant you that there definitely are incompetent shrinks, just like there are incompetent docs, but by & large most are Competent!
“The “training” therapists have makes them no better or more qualified than many people without that kind of “training”.”
Utter nonsense. Do you go to your neighbor for medical care? Do you go to your Rosh Yeshiva if you need surgery?
I wouldn’t even respond to this post, but in our day & age some readers believe anything they read. So I felt I must answer your post!July 22, 2012 4:29 pm at 4:29 pm #888958
the little- again, im obviously not talking about the ones that rabbopnim are trying to stop. i think we agree and fartig.July 22, 2012 6:14 pm at 6:14 pm #888959
Thanks a lot again to everyone here fr all the caring and good advice. The problem is that we don’t even have a regular computer in the house but my husband has a portable device and also a smart phone and he says he just can’t have filters on his portable device because it cuts off too many things he must have for work. Also I went to a professional technology person to learn more about filter choices for my husband but he says that the portable device my husband has isn’t able to have monitoring on it. So now he has no filters and says he can put one on but will need the password in case it holds him back from being able to get to a work-needed site! I know it’s probably baloney but theres some truth that filters do block out even needed sites because my filter is very annoying in that way. But the real problem is his device is not monitoring-friendly. So how can I in any way force himto protect his device? I also did confront him about using the Internet too much without saying the sites I saw he visited so he knows I’m saying he has a problem but he denies he uses it too much or that it’s a problem. I keep suggesting getting help and he says he doesn’t need it,July 22, 2012 6:21 pm at 6:21 pm #888960
What is the portable device that your husband uses that someone told you cannot have monitoring? Did the tech person say it cannot have filtering or only that it cannot have monitoring?
What computer do you use (that you said is filtered)?
The rov (gadol) you spoke to that told you not to tell your husband what you know, what did he advise you to do about this?July 22, 2012 6:28 pm at 6:28 pm #888962
Does anyone know of any addiction counselors in the n.y. Area?July 22, 2012 6:39 pm at 6:39 pm #888963☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
If you get to that point, you can contact Guardyoureyes (I think they may even list some on their website, otherwise you can email them), but the first step would be for him to recognize that he has a problem.July 22, 2012 6:45 pm at 6:45 pm #888964
That website is about addictions. Men who look at pornography usually do not have an addiction, the same way men who drink beer usually do not have an addiction. It is a natural, normal–and assur–thing to do.
Look at this this way: 99% of non-religious men look at pornography; they are not suffering from an addiction.July 22, 2012 6:48 pm at 6:48 pm #888965
popa: So what’s the best course of remedial action for a Yid who has this problem (of engaging in this issur), in your opinion?July 22, 2012 6:58 pm at 6:58 pm #888966☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
usually do not have an addiction
Yes, but some do. Bustercrown may wish to contact them to diagnose his issue.
Also, I think Guardyoureyes is not only about addictions, it also deals with regular shmiras ha’einaim (especially internet related).
From the home page of their site:July 22, 2012 9:07 pm at 9:07 pm #888967lebidik yankelParticipant
I did not see this emphasized, so I’m going to try and say this delicately. Our girls are truly educated to the highest standards of tznius. Part of the experience is downplaying the sensual parts within us and focusing on the spiritual. But the truth is that we are not all that spiritual. Moshe Rabbenu’s wife used to wear makeup at his insistence. Her not wearing makeup was a sign that they had separated. (Yalkut) So without laying blame, but rather with a view towards helping things along, one thing you may want to try is ensuring that his needs are being met. I have known too many couples where this was not the case, unfortunately.
When a kid shows signs of hunger, he is not being fed at home. The same goes for pursuit of Taava on the internet.July 22, 2012 9:22 pm at 9:22 pm #888968nossondMember
There was good advice on this issue before people started addressing the wife, but not much afterward. There is surely a good aspect of not confronting the husband and shaming him. But keeping quiet is also not the answer.
The fact is that great people can have great taavahs and nisyonos. Even if one succumbs to them many times, that person can still be a great person, although not exactly in the straightforward way. There are two paths to greatness, one as a tzadick, and the other as a baal teshuva. And often times, teshuva is a never ending continuous process and struggle.
The ikkar is that the wife needs to look into his soul. Is the husband a complete faker? If yes, then it is best to leave him. Does he espouse righteousness, but secretly feels absolutely nothing for it. If he is a complete faker, a closet apikores, leave him.
If however, the husband has nisyonos and wants to be good, but aino yochol lichvosh yitzroh, then the wife needs to cry along with him and share his burden. If his heart and soul is good, tell him you understand his difficulties and are there to support him in any way you can.
To confront and shame him is wrong!
To keep quiet is wrong!
No, you did not ask for this burden, but it is yours nonetheless.
Step up to the plate and be there for your husband!!!
That is your nisayon!
Will you pass it?July 23, 2012 3:46 am at 3:46 am #888971
Bustercrown -“Does anyone know of any addiction counselors in the n.y. Area?”
The most professional resource in the Frum community for Mental Health is Relief org. Their website is http://www.reliefhelp.org
Email: [email protected]
I just researched Guard your eyes org. It seems they mean well, but they are not in place of therapy. I guess their articles and forums are for those who absolutely refuse to go to therapy. It seems their purpose is more of a B’dieved than a L’chatchilla for Internet addiction. IMO it seems like s/o trying to get help from these self-help books. Sometimes they work, but mostly not.July 23, 2012 4:05 am at 4:05 am #888972
PBA -“Re: Guardyoureyes.
That website is about addictions. Men who look at pornography usually do not have an addiction, the same way men who drink beer usually do not have an addiction. It is a natural, normal–and assur–thing to do.
Look at this this way: 99% of non-religious men look at pornography; they are not suffering from an addiction.”
Now this could be just one of your trolls, but I’m not sure -so I’ll respond. Where did you get your knowledge of what an addiction is? I didn’t know you’re an expert in psychology along with everything else. I’m not going to get into a back and forth (at least I don’t want to) but I’ll just say this. Just like beer drinking can easily become an addiction and there are many whom are addicted which are called alcoholics, so too with the internet. So this is another fallacy going around the Frum community -the only ones that can help you with internet problems are Frum therapists. While it is preferable to use Frum therapists for a lot of different reasons, it’s pure nonsense to say that noone can be addicted to the internet by Goyim because they don’t think there is anything wrong. They can be addicted even if there isn’t a problem per se looking a few times, just like the beer drinker who keeps drinking and has an alcohol issue. This internet addiction is best treated by Mental Health professionals. Perhaps because of the ignorance and false rumors we have in the Frum community, this is why seeking Mental Help is so Stigmatized!July 23, 2012 4:33 am at 4:33 am #888973
PBA – when you spout words of insanity out of nowhere it is often harmless. I wish you would refrain from doing so when you haven’t a clue and the topic is more serious. If you prevent even one person from doing the right thing because of that chip on your shoulder, it would be a real shame.
In addition to what Health said, Guardyoureyes.com encourages people to go for counseling but it also conducts 12 step groups by phone which is nothing at all like getting help from self help books. Many people have gotten good advice and chizuk at crucial times in their marriages from “chatting” with others in their situation (not just reading about them in books) and the conference calls (I think they have for both men and women)are run by trained 12 step leaders.July 23, 2012 4:34 am at 4:34 am #888974
leibadik – that is a nice theory but does not hold true for addictive behavior.July 23, 2012 4:48 am at 4:48 am #888975
Sorry Syag, but I’m exactly correct here. If you give me a call on my cell phone, I’m sure I can explain it to you, and give you relevant people you can contact who will confirm.July 23, 2012 3:28 pm at 3:28 pm #888976
It was your message and implications I was objecting to. However I would love to know who you would refer to as ‘relevant people’.July 23, 2012 4:37 pm at 4:37 pm #888977
I know precisely what you were objecting to. And I stand by it.
Men who look at pornography are not suffering from an addiction. Therefore, any anti-addictive cures are stupid, useless, and probably harmful. Using the 12 step program to fight something which is not an addiction is retarded.
I define addiction as when you do something for reasons other than the regular reason. So for example, if you drink because you like getting drunk, then you are not addicted. But if you drink because you emotionally need to get drunk, that is an addiction. If you overeat because you like food, that is not an addiction. If you overeat because you emotionally need to, that is an addiction.
You might like my definition, and you might not. Psychologists can’t really agree on a definition, but mine seems fairly rational, and a well regarded frum psychologist agreed with me when I discussed it with her.
But, under no definition of addiction is the exercise of a normal desire–an addiction. Looking at pornography is a normal and healthy desire–albeit assur. If your husband was eating pig at night on the computer–you would call a rav, not a 12 step program. If he was eating pig every night on the computer, you would still call a rav–not Pigaholics Anonymous. Of course, if he was neglecting his relationships and your kids, and going to bed at 3AM every night (not once in while) to get his fix of pig, that would sound more like an addiction.July 23, 2012 5:01 pm at 5:01 pm #888978
So, again, you’ve defined what isn’t the problem. You’ve also acknowledged porn is assur. So, in your esteemed opinion, a frum man who regularly views pornography — which, admittedly, isn’t an clinical addiction as you’ve eloquently pointed out — how is he to stop engaging in that issur? What would you recommend to your best friend who confided to you he has this problem? (You agree it is a problem for a Yid, don’t you?)July 23, 2012 5:05 pm at 5:05 pm #888979
So, again, you’ve defined what isn’t the problem.
To paraphrase GI Joe: Knowing what it isn’t is half the battle.
What would I recommend? I have no advise. Maybe try SSRI’s, it is about as likely to help as a 12 step program.July 23, 2012 5:07 pm at 5:07 pm #888980gavra_at_workParticipant
“So, again, you’ve defined what isn’t the problem. You’ve also acknowledged Lashon Hara is assur. So, in your esteemed opinion, a frum man who regularly speaks Lashon Hara– which, admittedly, isn’t an clinical addiction as you’ve eloquently pointed out — how is he to stop engaging in that issur? What would you recommend to your best friend who confided to you he has this problem? (You agree it is a problem for a Yid, don’t you?)”
I would recommend to learn Mussar. In addition, I would suggest to start slow (perhaps being extra careful 1 hour a day) and grow from there.July 23, 2012 5:10 pm at 5:10 pm #888981
mods why the hack cant a euphamism be inserted. and even if you decide in your mod-ness that it cant, at least dont allow short forms and slang which sound way more prust. ive got a teen sister reading ywn and why should she ne to see these words.July 23, 2012 5:27 pm at 5:27 pm #888982MCPMember
Your teenage sister should not be so sheltered, or should not be in the coffee room.
The fact that many frum men look at/watch pornography is something that should be worked on, not something that should be hidden to the extent that when a woman catches her husband she thinks he is a freak. He just happens to be the one who got caught. Is it a problem and an issur? Unquestionably. But people are making him out to be a freak. All that does is tell someone who is struggling with this issue that they must do a better job hiding it.July 23, 2012 5:44 pm at 5:44 pm #888983yeshivishsocratesMember
ok, It would seem that i arrived a little late to this conversation so i apologise if i repeat any of the original ideas of my fellow posters.
The first thing that id like to point out is that you should really examine the dynamics of your relationship as husband and wife. A wife who would rather seek the opinions of the uninformed, anonymous masses than confront her own husband is likely to be repressing and harbouring other concerns about her husband. The longer you repress it, the more intense and disproportionate your eventual reaction will be when you can hold it in no longer. Just talk to your husband in the manner in which you are supposed to be doing. As his loving and supportive wife, his issues are yours too, talking between yourselves should be your first step, then if need be, a therapist – asking the world, in my humble opion, is just pointless.
Secondly, aside from the issue mentioned above, dont necessarily blame yourself. The gemmorah describes tayvas nashim as something which increases the more it is fed. His needs being tended to at home would not necessarily diminish his desire for further virtual helpings. Suggesting this comes from ignorance regarding tayva.
Finally, is this is a discussion room and not a novel, the only way for your husband to emerge from this issue, note the lack of the term addiction, is if you work together, as a couple to strengthen his resolve against this, the most fierce yetzer horah of our generation. Therapy, pills and preventative measures all have their uses but here, its simply misdirected. This sort of thing needs to be solved from the inside and in the confines of a marriage, inside includes you.July 23, 2012 6:20 pm at 6:20 pm #888984
PBA -“Men who look at pornography are not suffering from an addiction. Therefore, any anti-addictive cures are stupid, useless, and probably harmful. Using the 12 step program to fight something which is not an addiction is retarded.
I define addiction as when you do something for reasons other than the regular reason.
You might like my definition, and you might not. Psychologists can’t really agree on a definition, but mine seems fairly rational, and a well regarded frum psychologist agreed with me when I discussed it with her.”
You’re a classic example of -“A little knowledge is dangerous.”
Yes, there is a definition of internet addiction, but the wheels of this new definition are churning slowly. You should have kept your mouth quiet because this isn’t the place (YWN) to have philosophical discussions about everything. Tell your Frum Shrink to keep up with the latest as you will see.
People come here with real problems and are seeking real solutions. All you did was throw a monkey wrench into the solutions here for this problem.
Yes, if s/o in the Frum community has an internet problem, the best ones to solve this are Shrinks who deal with this.
And now I’m going to respond to your post. I really wouldn’t waste my time, but all the ignorant people here will believe your posts. This is one of the things some people did at the Asifa -they just called these addicts Goyim, but didn’t offer any real solutions. A filter/recorder is Not a real solution.
I won’t post the whole article, but you’ll see that this internet addiction will be soon classified as an Addiction:”
sorry, we can’t post cut and pasted articles for liability reasons.July 23, 2012 6:30 pm at 6:30 pm #888985
Just to clear up, I know my husband is addicted not just ‘looking like so many other men do’. Long b4 I found all the filthy sites he visited I already knew there’s a problem because he was always on Internet even just doing innocent things, work, news, weather, etc. too much time on I telnet, always checking his email, unwilling to do anything else at home with his free time, always on the computer, he can’t stop. He takes his device everywhere, in the car, on shopping trips, errands, Simchas, everywhere and he doesn’t think it’s weird or wrong. He explains it’s so useful for whatever you need, instead of gps, to look up info, phone numbers, etc. always an excuse why he needs it with him. I know he’s not looking at bad things all the time bt he needs his device all the time, so I know he’s addicted to Inteernet, not necessarily only to pornography. I have no doubt he’s addicted. I see compulsive behavior in other areas of his life too but he laughs it off and says things wrong with him, something’s wrong with me.July 23, 2012 6:30 pm at 6:30 pm #888986
Health: I don’t know what you were going to post, but I agree that there is such a thing as internet addiction. I don’t agree, however, with your absurd conclusion that everyone who looks at pornography is suffering from that addiction.July 23, 2012 6:32 pm at 6:32 pm #888987
yeshivishsocrates -“Finally, is this is a discussion room and not a novel, the only way for your husband to emerge from this issue, note the lack of the term addiction,”
Yes, your opinions along with PBA’s, amongst others, is why people Should Not bring their problems here.
“is if you work together, as a couple to strengthen his resolve against this, the most fierce yetzer horah of our generation. Therapy, pills and preventative measures all have their uses but here, its simply misdirected.”
I’m not against Mussar, but that only works for prevention. Once s/o is caught up with this, they need Professional Mental help!
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