Where’d the ‘? come from?

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  • #2392419
    The Frumguy
    Participant

    Does anyone out there know how the word (and Gemara Masechta) “????” became “?????” with a ‘??

    #2392507
    wackyway
    Participant

    How did Yakov become Yankev

    #2392534
    ??coffee addict
    Participant

    ???? means to hit

    ????? is whipping

    They’re two different words

    #2392538
    ? DaasYochid ?
    Participant

    It’s not ?????, it’s ?????.

    I’m not just correcting a spelling mistake, I’m pointing out that it’s a different word.

    #2392542
    smerel
    Participant

    >>>How did Yakov become Yankev

    That one is easy. In many countries the letter AYIN was pronounced as an ANG sound . The word Shemah would be pronounced Shmang but with very little emphasis on the G. Therefore the name Yaakov would always have been pronounced as Yankov by them. (Actually Yankgev but with so little emphasis on hte g that it sounded like Yankev)

    Even today in Amsterdam children are still taught that an AIYN in ang, Briskers repeat the words in Shema with an AIYN to also make that sound in case it is correct and some of the old time Yekke shuls still insist that whoever davens for the amud pronounces “Elokei Yangkov”.

    #2392567
    SQUARE_ROOT
    Participant

    The word RA (resh ayin) has no letter Shin.

    So where did the letter Shin in the word RASHA come from?

    Where did the 4-pronged letter Shin in the tefillin shel rosh come from?

    #2392746
    ubiquitin
    Participant

    “Does anyone out there know how the word (and Gemara Masechta) “????” became “?????.” with a ‘??”

    I would ask the reverse. The Mesechta discusses ?????, (at least the third perek does and I guess the first sugya in discussing eideim zomim who get ????? does) . why is it called ?????

    #2392756
    yeshivaguy45
    Participant

    The masechta is known as Maseches Makos, not Maseches Malkus. DaasYochid is correct, it’s 2 seperate words.
    The Lashon of the pasuk is Ish Ki YAKEH es Chavero,” so that’s where the Masechta of Makos got its name. The name of the punishment is Malkus.

    #2393007
    yeshivaguy45
    Participant

    Correction. The Lashon of the Pasuk referring to Malkus is “Arbaim Yakenu.”

    #2393064
    The little I know
    Participant

    I suggest that the inference of ???? is a plague that is indiscriminate. On the other hand, ????? is a consequence delivered to someone who earned it, and is the only one directly affected. As noted in an earlier comment, the name for the ???? is derived from the posuk of ??? ?? ??? ?? ???? in which the victim is specified. That’s my thought.

    #2393183
    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    It seems that ???? is Aramaic while ??? is Lashon Kodesh. The former was adopted by the later ?????? into the language, just like ???, and became part of ???? ?????. The Mishna always uses ?????, ????.

    #2393336

    “Where did the 4-pronged letter Shin in the tefillin shel rosh come from?”
    The answer to that is a Dvar Torah which I heard, which I will try to summarise:
    We learn in Masechtes Chagiga that before the Churban there were either 600 or 700 sedorim of Mishnayos(Machloikes).
    We also knoew that in Shomayim/Oilom Haboh we are said to have two crowns. One to represent Tefillin(Shel Rosh) and the other to represent Mishnayos.
    The Shin’s on the Teffilin shel Rosh represent this.
    The Gematria of two shins (each with 3 lines(total of 6)) is 600 , keneged the 600 sedorim of mishnayos we had.(The extra line in the second makes 7 lines representing the other shitah of 700 sedorim).
    However, now that sadly we don’t have the Beis Hamikdosh any more, we went from 600 or 700 down to 6 sedorim. Two Shin’s put next to each other is the word “??” which gets translated to 6.

    Please remember this is a short summary of a 15-20 minute shuir on this topic.
    IY”H Moshiach should come now and we will be able to see the Beis Hamkidosh with our own eyes.

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