Which came first: The chicken or the egg?

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  • #610306

    What do you think? I beleive the chicken, for Hashem never said: “And let there be eggs!” And *poof* there were eggs. But a chicken is a bird, so it was made in the first days of creation, no?

    #969772
    the-art-of-moi
    Participant

    the answer izzat a circle has no beginning or end.

    #969773

    Being that many animals existed before chickens, most of which produced eggs, it is pretty clear that eggs predated chickens.

    #969774

    Well according to jewish law supper comes before Breakfast so you’re correct

    #969775
    Oh Shreck!
    Participant

    Interesting question. Hmm.. I forgot. It happened so long ago.. I vaguely remember…

    #969776
    Sam2
    Participant

    This name: Nah, because you should eat dinner before sunset (in theory; if we didn’t have electric lights) so breakfast comes first.

    #969777
    notasheep
    Member

    Tom Holt has written a lengthy volume on the subject. It is called ‘Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Sausages’. I believe his theory was that the chicken came first, in that if you took a person and turned them into a chicken, you would have a chicken that did not remember the inside of the egg shell, therefore the chicken must have come first.

    On a more serious note, my own opinion is that Hashem created eggs and chickens at the same time, since the world was created as though it had already been in existence, and therefore with an already existing cycle of life.

    #969778
    WIY
    Member

    Not a sheep

    I would need to see it inside to believe that there were eggs. As far as I know everything was created in a mature state with the ability to procreate however there is no reason for there to be eggs because an egg is the result of procreation which first started when Hashem gave the animals the command to procreate. (Its in the pesukim ayyin sham).

    #969779
    BaalHabooze
    Participant

    ok, read this vort which was issued right here on YWN by R’ Oizer Alport from his weekly divrei torah.

    Parshas Bereishis (Vol. 4, Issue 1)

    ????? ????? ????? ???? ??? ??? ??? ???? ????? ?? ???? ?? ??? ???? ????? – 1:20

    Throughout the generations, philosophers have debated the age-old question of which came first: the chicken or the egg? What does the Torah, which is the blueprint for the Creation and contains the answer to every question, have to say about this hotly-contested issue?

    On the fifth day of Creation, Hashem said, “Let the waters abound with swarming living creatures, and fowl that fly about over the earth across the expanse of the Heavens.” On the phrase meaning “living,” Rashi comments, “that it will be alive” ? in the future tense. In the following verse (1:21), which relates the actual creation of the marine and bird life, the same expression which means “living” appears, but this time, Rashi comments, “that it is alive” ? in the present tense.

    On the sixth day of Creation, Hashem declared, “Let the Earth bring forth living creatures, each according to its kind: animals, creeping things, and beasts of the land.” Once again, this verse contains the identical phrase which means “living,” and Rashi comments, “that it is alive” ? in the present tense. It is very uncharacteristic for Rashi to comment on the same phrase three times in a span of five verses. Further, it is not coincidental that Rashi switched the verb tenses between the verses. Why did he feel the need for these multiple comments, and what does this teach us?

    Rav Yehoshua Leib Diskin explains that regarding Hashem’s command on the fifth day to create marine and bird life, His intention was for the waters to produce fish eggs that would yield fish, and bird eggs which would hatch and create birds. For this reason, Rashi stresses that they will be alive after they hatch. In the following verse, the Torah records that marine and bird life were actually created. In other words, the eggs hatched and produced the desired fish and bird species; for this reason, Rashi writes that they were alive, since this verse discusses their post-hatching state. On the sixth day, the Torah records the creation of land animals which aren’t hatched from eggs. They were initially created in their living states, and for this reason, Rashi refers to them as already being alive.

    The mystics teach that there is nothing which is not alluded to in the Torah. Although the Maharil Diskin was coming to address a textual difficulty in Rashi’s commentary, his answer enables us to decisively resolve the philosophical dilemma by concluding that the egg was created before the chicken!

    #969780
    sharp
    Member

    Oh wow. That is very interesting. Thanks for the vort, BaalHabooze.

    #969781
    notasheep
    Member

    WIY – Tom Holt is a fiction writer of mostly satirical and often parodical novels. I was being slightly facetious with that comment. But you should read the book, it is very funny.

    Your other comment about creation does not make sense because although the egg is the result of procreation, the difference between egg-laying creatures needs to be highlighted. Mammals have the ability to procreate within them, and the foetus does not need an outside environment to complete gestation. Birds and fish, however, need to lay their eggs in order to complete gestation, and therefore the egg itself is a separate being. Therefore, Hashem could have conceivably created the world with both chickens and eggs.

    #969782
    WIY
    Member

    BaalHabooze

    Thanks! Great find!

    #1964627
    CHOOSID
    Participant

    Hashem created animals…Adam Harishon named animals…not the eggs. so Mistama the chicken came before the egg

    #1964671

    Ma nafka mina? Does it affect whether we eat omelet before chicken?

    A better question – what came first – a sun or a day?

    #1965247
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Hashem created animalsā€¦Adam Harishon named animalsā€¦not the eggs. so Mistama the chicken came before the egg

    And how do you know that the first chickens weren’t created hatching from their eggs?

    The Wolf

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