September 21, 2023 2:14 pm at 2:14 pm #2227002ujmParticipant
Poll: Which is worse?
1. Life in a marriage where the spouses are often arguing, don’t agree on the basics and fail to see eye to eye on most issues?
2. Life as a long term divorcee fighting with your ex over the kids, custody, visitation, money, support, asset separation/ownership and using the children as pawns against each other and alienating the children from the enemy parent?September 21, 2023 3:27 pm at 3:27 pm #2227169DaMosheParticipant
I think the worst is when a troll pretends that those are the only two options, and presents them in a poll trying to force someone to choose.September 21, 2023 4:47 pm at 4:47 pm #2227173Zaphod BeeblebroxParticipant
And boom goes the dynamite.September 21, 2023 4:49 pm at 4:49 pm #2227179GadolHadofiParticipant
Poll: Which is worse?
1. Life in a marriage where a spouse physically disciplines their spouse and children, confines them to the home and otherwise restricts them based on twisted interpretations of Torah sources?
2. Life as a long term divorcee fighting with an ex over the kids, custody, visitation, money, support, asset separation/ownership and having the children used as pawns against them by the enemy parent?
Perhaps the multiple wives of our mod can enlighten us, if he lets them.September 21, 2023 4:50 pm at 4:50 pm #2227182The little I knowParticipant
Unsure of the definition of “troll”. The scenario described is very real for many, and it is one of those situations that one is between a rock and a hard place. There is no pat answer for this, and every case is unique. Worse is that compromises can be imposed via beis din, court, or other forms of mediation. However, compliance is never guaranteed. Parental alienation has become epidemic in the frum community. And the alienating spouse is most often the one with residential custody, and requires only time to insure the efforts to alienate bear fruit. Sadly, askanim are often employed to facilitate this. As they have no professional ethical standards, there is no recourse to their violations of privacy or honesty. Getting rabbonim into this role is also not uncommon.
“Staying together for the kids” is a nice sounding thought. In reality, this is immensely difficult to achieve without exposing the kids to incessant fighting, bitterness, and all of the awful midos we would rather they not see.
Divorce (and the pre-divorce fighting) bring out the worst behavior and attitudes in people. The same chesed driven people can be seen behaving in manners that range between cruel and ruthless. If our chinuch is to have any value, we should be transmitting values and midos tovos. Putting kids through this nightmare is abusive, regardless of who is “right” in the marital conflict.September 21, 2023 10:41 pm at 10:41 pm #2227205Chaim87Participant
Rabbi A Miller Z”L use to say stay married and continue (Of course not fighting but continue together he would quip.) He had very harsh words to say about divorce just because you can’t get along. Now I don’t know what he would say about mental illness or CVS any top of abuse. And nothing is a cardinal rule. From the tone of your question though, it sounds like it isn’t extreme to the point of abuse. Rabbi A Miller ZL is the torah way.
By the way most of our holocaust grandparents were not that compatible and many fought. But they knew you need to tough it out and hold it together.September 21, 2023 10:43 pm at 10:43 pm #2227235MarxistParticipant
It’s said that half of all marriages in US end up in divorce. People get divorced way too quickly at times without putting in the commitment to stay married and work through issues.September 21, 2023 10:43 pm at 10:43 pm #2227242hi pleased to meet youParticipant
Please! All married couples read dear son / dear daughter by Rabbi Eliyohu Goldschmidt.September 21, 2023 10:45 pm at 10:45 pm #2227253Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipant
Arguing requires two sides. So, one side may choose not to argue and concentrate on other aspects of life. See Gemoras about Rav’s wife who would cook him a wrong dish, but he ate it up.
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