Are white skirts not tzanuah?

Home Coffeeroom Decaffeinated Coffee Are white skirts not tzanuah?

Viewing 50 posts - 1 through 50 (of 66 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #609740

    brotherofurs
    Participant

    why don’t some people wear them? why is it an issue with tzenius?

    #1034460

    batseven
    Participant

    Huh?

    I never heard of that in my life. I wear white skirts all the time and as long as its not see through theres nothing wrong with wearing white skirts or even green, pink yellow or blue for that matter

    #1034461

    alwaysmile
    Participant

    why wouldn’t they be?

    #1034462

    truthsharer
    Member

    If it’s not black, send it back.

    #1034464

    farrockgrandma
    Participant

    What is really sad is going to a simcha where all of the women dress in black.

    I opened an album from an event 40+ years ago, and all of the strictly orthodox women in attendance were dressed in a rainbow of bright colors.

    As for the white skirt, please make sure that it is fully lined or worn with a good slip, and that it is not translucent.

    #1034465

    I dont know where you’ve been looking but EVERYONE is wearing white skirts lately.

    #1034466

    OneOfMany
    Participant

    By lately, do you mean since summer started? I think that’s when everyone starts wearing them every year.

    #1034467

    yentingyenta
    Participant

    wearing a white skirt reminds me of nursing school. and Pen stains.

    Not a good combo.

    #1034468

    147
    Participant

    Every Jewish women is about to be wearing a white skirt & white blouse, 4 times in the next 3 months:-

    1) Chamisho Ossor b’Ov

    2) 1st day R’H

    3) 2nd day R’H

    4) Yom haKippurim

    BTW I am referring to the last Mishno in Taanis {1&4} so it is absurd to refer to white clothing as ostentatious.

    #1034469

    Yeah theyre very in this summer

    #1034470

    Shopping613 🌠
    Participant

    Black attracts sun…

    no one like to be hot!

    So duh they r popular in the summer! EVERYONE KNOWS THAT! black on black for winter and whit on white for summer….of course with a shirt over the shell

    #1034471

    147
    Participant

    I hope & trust that my white straw hat is Tzonua?

    #1034472

    Torah613Torah
    Participant

    I just bought one on Friday. I think it’s pretty tzanuah. 🙂

    That’s like saying all Kallah dresses are not tzanuah.

    #1034473

    Ayayashreichem24
    Participant

    Well since black is the epitome of tznius, I assume that white, which is the opposite, should be completely assur.

    #1034474

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Pesachim 109a:

    ??? ???? ???? ??? ???? ???? ???? ???? ???? ????? ????? ???? ??? ????? ???? ??? ????? ???? ????? ????? ??? ????? ????? ??? ????? ????? ??? ???? ????? ???? ??? ?? ???? ???? ????? ??????? ???? ????? ????? ???? ???????

    Kesubos 71a-71b:

    ???? ?? ???? ????? ??? ??? ???? ??? ???? ???? ??? ???? ????? ????? ???????

    Rashi there:

    ????? ???????. ???? ?????? ??? ?? ?????? ????

    We see that women should be wearing colorful clothing.

    #1034475

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    I know a lot of people who have never worn skirts. And a woman who is allergic to bees should not wear brightly colored skirts in the summer.

    #1034476

    Sam2
    Participant

    PAA: I do not think that means what you think it means.

    Torah (haven’t seen you post in a while but I’ll address this to you anyway): One of my cousins was at a Chassidish/Chareidi wedding in E”Y and he said the Kallah wore a black wedding dress. He asked the Chassan what Pshat was and he said that she felt uncomfortable wearing white because it’s not Tznius.

    #1034477

    ariele (Joseph)
    Participant

    sam2, is there any particular reason jewish brides wear a white dress?

    #1034478

    Sam2
    Participant

    If I had to guess, I would say it’s based on the same reasons Goyim started-and it’s a Gemara in Kesubos.

    #1034480

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    “PAA: I do not think that means what you think it means.”

    Are you referring to the Gemara in Kesubos or the Gemara in Yevamos? The Gemara in Kesubos is talking about nedarim that are inuy nefesh and one of those listed is a neder about abstaining from wearing colored clothing. Rashi is explaining that abstaining from colored clothing is a genai and a bizayon to her and makes her degraded* to her husband.

    The Gemara in Pesachim is saying that colored clothing is mesameach women. See also the hakdama to the Levush where he explains that he entitled the volume dealing with hilchos nashim “Levush Tachrich Habutz V’ha’argaman” because

    ??? ??? ???? ???? ????? ??? ????? ??????? ???????? ??? ???? ?????

    *for lack of a better word

    #1034481

    ariele (Joseph)
    Participant

    sam2, so its because the goyim started dressing brides in white or it is because of the talmud in kesubos? (or do you mean the goyim wear it because of what the talmud says??)

    #1034482

    springbird
    Member

    WIth questions like this…….It’s no wonder so many are going off the derech.

    #1034483

    Sam2
    Participant

    PAA: Bigdei Tzivonim does not translate to “colored clothing”.

    #1034484

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    A black wedding dress is certainly inappropriate, but white makes women look bad.

    #1034485

    ariele (Joseph)
    Participant

    i asked my teacher and was told sam2 is correct that jewish brides wear a white dress because of the talmud in kesubas while the goyim started doing so much later than us.

    #1034486

    mghanooni
    Member

    According to wikipedia white wedding dresses and veils are a relatively newer concept for the Western world:

    The tradition of a white wedding is commonly credited to Queen Victoria’s choice to wear a white wedding dress at her wedding to Prince Albert in 1840.

    Royal brides before Victoria did not typically wear white, instead choosing “heavy brocaded gowns embroidered with white and silver thread,” with red being a particularly popular colour in Western Europe more generally.

    Although women were required to wear veils in many churches through at least the 19th century, the resurgence of the wedding veil as a symbol of the bride, and its use even when not required by the bride’s religion, coincided with societal emphasis on women being modest and well-behaved.

    #1034487

    bais yakov maidel
    Participant

    I think that nitpicking on what “exaaaaactly” is and is not tznius…. is not tznius.

    #1034488

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Sam2:

    “colorful clothing” perhaps not; “colored clothing” yes. I was not so precise in my first comment, but in my second comment I was. Perhaps what you mean is that I don’t necessarily have a raya because in Talmudic times “colored clothing” was chashuv because of the cost and work of dyeing it whereas nowadays it’s not.

    #1034489

    Sam2
    Participant

    PAA: Still no. I really, really don’t think it means colorful clothing. It means something else entirely.

    #1034490

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Sam2:

    I agree that it doesn’t mean colorful clothing. But that is not the same thing as colored clothing.

    See for example the Aruch Laner Sukkah 10a:

    ??”? ??????. ???? ???? ???? ???? ??????? ????? (? ?) ??? ??”? ????? ???? ??????? ?????? ????? ?? ???? ??”? ???? ???? ??????? ??? ????? ????????? ??????? ????????? ???? ????? ????? ??? ????? ???? ?????? ??? ???? ??????? ??????? ?? ????? ?????? ???????? ????? ???? ?? ????? ???? ??? ?????? ??? ?? ???? ?? ?????? ??? ??? ??? ????? ?????? ???? ????? ???? ???? ?”? ??? ????? ????????? ?????? ??? ??????? ??? ??? ?? ??????? ????? ??? ??? ?? ???? ???????

    But if we’re still not talking to each other, maybe you should say what you think it means.

    #1034491

    Sam2
    Participant

    PAA: I highly doubt it would pass moderation (it shouldn’t), but that should give you some indication of what it means.

    #1034492

    bais yakov maidel
    Participant

    not that I personally mind this discussion, but for those who are “super-senstitive” to tznius, this is exactly what I meant about these discussion not being tzanua… as Sam2 tries to evade what exactly what that form of “clothing” is referring to

    #1034493

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Sam2:

    I don’t think that’s what it means in general contexts.

    bais yakov maidel:

    I don’t know if your comment was directed at me, but I am not discussing in terms of tznius.

    #1034494

    Sam2
    Participant

    bym: Disagree. There’s no lack of Tznius in explaining Pshat in a Gemara. It’s just not so comfortable in a public setting.

    I remember a friend once telling me about a Daf Yomi Shiur he attended. He said that there were a few lines that the Rabbi told them “read the Artscroll, it’s inappropriate to say out loud”. Which is, of course, absurd, arrogant, and ridiculous. If Chazal thought to write it down for us, it’s appropriate to learn.

    #1034495

    yentachaya
    Participant

    @sam2 I 100% agree! What it says in Gemara is not just there to be learned: it’s important to be learned!! It SHOULD be learned. And not in a way that makes people feel uncomfortable about it.

    As for this discussion, any article of clothing can be worn in a tzniusdik or non-tzniusdik way. It’s all in the way it’s worn. I once saw 2 girls at a wedding wearing the same dress; one looked so eidel and refined, the other one did not (I won’t elaborate, considering the public forum here). Tznius isn’t about inches, styles, colors… It’s about how you wear your clothing, if you’re trying to attract attention or if you’re wearing it for the right reasons.

    #1034496

    Joseph
    Participant

    bym: Sam is correct. There isn’t anything wrong with discussing the particulars of the various legal parameters required to fulfil this obligation. In fact it is a necessary topic.

    #1034498

    147
    Participant

    I am wearing my white outfit all day tomorrow Chamisho Ossor b’Ov:- May all we White dressers this Chamisho Ossor b’Ov be Zochos to quickly & speedily get to our Chuppo.

    #1034499

    yeshivaguy45
    Participant

    147, It could be you’re in Eretz Yisroel. Tu b’Av is on Monday.

    #1034500

    Sam2
    Participant

    PAA: I’m pretty sure that is exactly what it means in all contexts. Which, according to R’ Akiva Eiger’s Hava Amina, makes a fascinating Chiluk between single and married women repeating Bentsching on Yom Tov is they forget Ya’aleh V’yavo.

    #1034501

    Joseph
    Participant

    Sam, do single women tend to forget yaale vyovo or is it married women who tend to forget?

    #1034502

    yentachaya
    Participant

    I’m in Eretz Yisrael! Maybe I should wear white tomorrow.

    #1034503

    mobico
    Participant

    Sam2 – Bigdei Tziv’onim, in a general sense, definitely means colored clothing. This is clear in many places in Shas.

    And in terms of the general topic, I agree with many others – as long as one makes absolutely certain that it is not translucent in any way, then there is certainly no Tzenius issue. The aforementioned bride was misguided, as she acted contrary to Minhag Yisrael.

    #1034504

    Joseph
    Participant

    Mobico, which and whose minhag yisroel? Where is this brought down and how old is it?

    #1034506

    oomis
    Participant

    The only problem with a white skirt, is keeping it clean-looking. Anything else negative that has been written, is over-thinking the tznius issue. It SHOULD be lined, or with a good slip, to prevent it from becoming see-through.

    #1034507

    old man
    Member

    Myturnatbat:

    White does not attract the eye. Reflection and absorption here is irrelevant, as is snowblindness.

    In answer to your question, yes, I am an expert in the field.

    #1034508

    old man
    Member

    Myturnatbat:

    White does not attract the eye. Reflection and absorption here is irrelevant, as is snowblindness.

    In answer to your question, yes, I am an expert in the field.

    #1034509

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    “Which, according to R’ Akiva Eiger’s Hava Amina, makes a fascinating Chiluk between single and married women repeating Bentsching on Yom Tov is they forget Ya’aleh V’yavo.”

    Are you referring to ‘??”? ??? ????? ???? ????? ??”? ???? ??

    #1034510

    147
    Participant

    yeshivaguy45:- FYI I am an orthodox Jewess, so I strictly adhere to the Jewish calendar and take no notice of the secular calendar, hence when I sent my previous message to the coffee room, it was Ov 14th, & not 13th, since I am a Shabbos observer.

    #1034512

    Sam2
    Participant

    PAA: Every set of T’shuvos R’ Akiva Eiger numbers them differently. It’s 1:1 in mine.

    PBA: Really? That’s not her fault. Don’t wonder, don’t stare. She’s not causing you to stare by keeping her clothes clean. Assume she washes them and move on. I won’t say that’s the most ridiculous Tznius thing I’ve heard (because I’ve heard plenty more ridiculous ones), but it’s just stupid.

    #1034513

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    “PAA: Every set of T’shuvos R’ Akiva Eiger numbers them differently. It’s 1:1 in mine.”

    That’s the same as mine.

Viewing 50 posts - 1 through 50 (of 66 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.


Trending