Who is the new leader of Klal Yisrael?

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  • #1425796

    Kzaldinblue
    Participant

    Now that Maran HaRav Shteinman z”tl passed away who is now the leader of our generation?

    #1426223

    Joseph
    Participant

    Rav Chaim.

    #1426234

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Id say Rav Chaim

    #1426235

    frumnotyeshivish
    Participant

    More importantly, who decides? Is there a vote? Who is qualified to vote? Further, since daas Torah has special siyata dishmaya and is infallible, can it be me? I want to be infallible too…

    #1426246

    Joseph
    Participant

    Look guys, if ZD and I agree on something, then it’s case closed, discussion over, issue resolved.

    Next subject.

    #1426240

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Infallible? Wrong religion. No, in the yeshiva world, we don’t believe gedolim are infallible.

    #1426271

    GAON
    Participant

    I don’t know about “leader” but Rav Chaim is no doubt Gadol Hador. He was sure as much or more of a gaon than Rav Shteinman…

    Joseph,
    I sure thought you would say Rav Shmuel A. Shlita

    #1426279

    147
    Participant

    Now that tragically Rav Steinman Z TKLLH’H & Rav Avigdor Miller ZTKLLH’H and Rav Ovadyah Yosef ZTKLLH’H, and more tragically @the very young age of 70:- Rav Shmuel Yaakov Borenstein ZTKLLH’H are no longer amongst the living, hence Rav Chaim Kanievky shlita is the absolute undisputed Godol haDor, and as he is about to turn 90, we wish him Arichas Yomim and excellent health for many years to come.

    #1426282

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Does the Sephardeshe tzibur recognize Rav Chaim as their “leader” as compared to Rav Yosef? Clearly they respect Rav Chaim’s lamdus just as Maran Ovadia Z’TL held Rav Elyashiv Z’TL in great esteem. I guess the question could be framed in terms of whether both the Litvish and Sephardic tzibur hold by the same “gadol hador”.

    #1426296

    marbehshalom
    Participant

    RAV CHAIM , RAV EDELSTIEN AND R DOVID COHEN (CHEVRON)

    #1426330

    WinnieThePooh
    Participant

    This is very painful, to think of a world without R’ Shteinman. He represented a continuation of a chain going back to the greats of Europe. He kept the legacy of Rav Shach and Rav Elyashiv alive. I feel triply abandoned now.

    Rav Chaim until now, while open to seeing the klal, has generally not been involved in klal issues, running of mosdos, politics, etc. He learns Torah. Period. Neither was R’ Shteinman when he was younger, although he was a Rosh Yeshiva all along, and was very involved in various mosdos. So R’ Chaim, to be the gadol hador in all aspects, as we need, would have to change his hanhaga. I wonder if he will, or perhaps the best for klal yisroel is Rav Chaim’s pure Torah, and someone else should fill the other roles. I would say it is likely to be Rav Edelstein, although there are a number of highly esteemed Roshei Yeshiva.

    #1426396

    Chabadshlucha
    Participant

    What about Rav Samuel Auerbach? Isn’t he also big in the litvishe world? And a peer to Rav Shteinman (Curious, I’m a bit clueless here)

    #1426439

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    It is unlikely Rav Auerbach , He is head of the Peleg , would have been named by Rav Shteinman . The previous Gadol Hador names the names Gadol Hador in his will and Rav Shteinman and Rav Chaim were very Close (I think they were Shivers)

    #1426490

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    Chabadshlucha: R’ Shmuel may be one of the gedolei hador but “hamon am” does not view him as the “gadol hador” like they view R’ Chaim.

    #1426559

    GAON
    Participant

    Winnie,
    True, he was the last ‘European’ gadol..
    I heard a while ago that Rav Chaim was mispalel every day on Rav Shteinman’s health so that he shouldn’t have to take on the Hanhagah..

    Whats with Rav BM Ezrachi?

    #1426650

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    To Winnie:
    You frame a very important question. What does it mean to be “gadol hador” versus the “leader of our generation” (as per the title of this thread)? Do they mean the same thing or does one imply someone regarded as the biggest talmid chacham versus someone who has both the lamdus but also has experience and skills in administering mosdos, providing definitive guidance on controversial matters of halacha etc. We already have “Chief Rabbis” who are more in the nature of political appointees for the Sephardeshe and Ashkenaz tzibur but not all regard them as “the leaders of our generation” or consider them among the “gadolei hador”.

    #1426679

    Joseph
    Participant

    Many have argued that Rav Chaim shlita was the top gadol hador since Rav Elyashiv was niftar, like GAON said above, and Rav Shteinman zt’l and Rav Auerbach shlita came just after Rav Chaim.

    A big reason why Rav Shteinman was accepted as the successor to Rav Elyashiv is because Rav Chaim told Klal Yisroel to do so.

    #1426971

    GAON
    Participant

    Gadol,
    “gadol hador” versus the “leader of our generation”

    Don’t confuse the two; Leaders still need to be great in learning as well.

    Look at it like this, while someone like the Rogatchover was probably the greatest Gaon of the pre-war generation, but Rav Chaim Ozer of Vilna was still the Leader.

    #1427199

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    The confusion here is the english translation of “Gadol Hador”. There really isnt any good direct english translation of Gadol HaDor , but we all know it means basically the final Posek (or the top Posek) of the time

    #1427205

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Gadolim like Rav Chaim Ozer or Rav Meir Shapiro were more than Poseks, they were political leaders meaning they were involved with the government and general welfare of the community. Todays Gedolim really dont do those things.

    Rav Meir Shapiro was a member of the Polish Parliment, such a thing is almost unheard of nowadays and Rav Chaim Ozer frequently commumnicated with the Authorities on issues related to the community .

    #1427270

    DrYidd
    Participant

    jews have gedolim and gedolai hador. the desire for A gadol hador is foreign to our history. even Rambam or Rabbeinu Tam had others in their generation who contested their position.

    the exceptions were few and far between. to expect one gadol hador to follow another is like trying to name the greatest physicist after Einstein died. i think our last acknowledged gadol hador may have been the gaon of Vilna.

    #1427278

    Joseph
    Participant

    The Vilna Gaon wasn’t, in his time, accepted as the top leader by all of Klal Yisroel, either. So I don’t see how today is any different than the time of the Gaon.

    It has been far from uncommon for Klal Yisroel to have had one widely acknowledged leader of leaders. The Chofetz Chaim, who lived during the lifetime of some Yidden alive today, is another recent example.

    #1427288

    Bitul
    Participant

    I’m surprised none of you blamed the Lubavitcher doctor that was caring for him, for his death.

    #1427311

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    I’m surprised none of you said the Lubavicher Rebbe is still the leader of Klal Yisroel.

    #1427349

    GAON
    Participant

    Chocom,
    “surprised none of you blamed the Lubavitcher doctor that was caring for him, for his death.”

    We tried but the doctor swears he is “still alive”!

    #1427337

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    The Lubavicher Rebbe had skills others did not. Its no small accomplishment to create the Network Chabad has done. He had the skills to make it happen. I wont comment if he was a Gadol B’Torah or not, but he was certainly a gadol from an organizational viewpoint.

    #1427338

    147
    Participant

    In the USA, the Gadol haDor is a 5 way consortium, shared by the Noveminske Rebbe [Rav Yaakov Perlow] shlita, Rav Dovid Feisntein shlita, Rav Shmuel Kamanetsky shlita, Rav Aharon Feldman shlita [Ner Israel], & the Bobov Rebbe [Rav Ben-Tzion Halberstam] shlita. May we continue to benefit from these 5 American Gedolei haDor for many years to come.

    #1427342

    Bitul
    Participant

    @daasyochid
    I was actually planning on writing that, but i didn’t want another backlash like the one that happened last time…

    #1427344

    BMG
    Participant

    there are only 2 gedolim who are still around who’s names appeared on almost all kol koreh’s from the litvisheh gedolim in the past 30 years those are rav chaim and rav shmuel aurbach all others have began only much more recently (ofcourse that doesn’t diminish their greatness in any way just basic history from before everything turned into machalokes and each side makes up whatever story they want)

    #1427348

    GAON
    Participant

    Joseph,
    One Gadol for klal Yisrael has rarely ever happened, one of the reasons is technically, each region had it’s own. The GR”A was mainly excepted in Lithuania and parts of Russia .
    At the same time in Poland it was the Noda beYehuda as Gadol.
    Distances and borders were a major role in not even knowing some Gadolim, Just to show how the distances effected, the Shagas Aryeh who lived in Lithuania replies in a responsum written to the Bais Efrayim in regards to a Noda BeYehuda he quoted, “I never saw or heard of such sefer nor of the author”, at the very same time when the NB was posek hador in his part of the world.
    On the other hand, the Chida never mentions the GR”A but he mentions many others of Europe like the above NB.

    #1427370

    The previous Gadol Hador names the [next] Gadol Hador in his will

    Where did he get that idea?

    #1427526

    apushatayid
    Participant

    B’H there are many gedolim in klal yisroel. Only a child engages in “my gadol is greater than yours”. An intellectually honest person acknowledges that someone from outside his community can be just as great (or even greater) as the leader of the community he lives in. Asay licha Rav doesnt mean create a score card and whoever earns the highest score, is the bigegst gadol, and the leader to accept on yourself.

    #1427514

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    ZD: I slightly disagree with your equating the “gadol hador” with the “poseik hador”. R’ Aharon Kotler TZATZAL was acknowledge as the Gadol Hador and he referred to R’ Moshe Feinstein TZATZAL as the Poseik Hador. It was only after R’ Aharon’s petirah in 1962 that R’ Moshe accepted upon himself many of R’ Aharon’s responsibilities that he became acknowledged as the gadol hador. At that time the leading poskim in EY were R’ Shlomo Zalman Auerbach TZATZAL and R’ Eliyashiv TZATZAL.

    #1427383

    WinnieThePooh
    Participant

    Zehavasdad- today’s gedolim are very involved in politics, at least in Israel, not by serving in the government, but by choosing and instructing representatives of the chareidi parties.
    R’ Ovadya was head of Shas, which was started as per R’ Shach’s recommendations.
    Chariedi MKs always consulted with R’ Elyashiv and then R’ Shteinman before they voted. Even non-chareidi MKs and ministers would meet with them.
    So the Gadol Hador/leader needs to have a lot of characteristics: Talmid Chochom, exemplary middos, major posek, a person of action, far-reaching insight to make political and hashkafic decisions that affect the klal.
    Saying someone is the Gadol Hador does not contradict the fact that there will be communities that follow different gedolim. Sefardim will have their Gadol, American and Israeli Jews will generally each follow the local gedolim, and for chassidim, ultimately the final word is with their Rebbe. But still, all groups will recognize the greatness of the one known as the Gadol Hador.

    #1427574

    Joseph
    Participant

    Who is the biggest Sefardic godol today?

    #1427661

    GAON
    Participant

    Joseph,

    One that comes to mind is Rav Shalom Cohen – Leader of Shas

    #1427660

    GAON
    Participant

    iac…

    “R’ Aharon Kotler TZATZAL was acknowledge as the Gadol Hador and he referred to R’ Moshe Feinstein TZATZAL as the Poseik Hador.”

    Many are not aware before Rav Moshe was The Posek, many referred to Rav YE Henkin (more known as the directer of Ezras Torah) as the prime Posek of America, many psakim we follow are based on his psak. One that comes to my mind is opening refrigerators on Shabbos. However, he rarely got involved in any public hashkfah issues.. Another Posek was Rav Yonasan Steif (more known by Chassidim/Hungarians)

    ” At that time the leading poskim in EY were R’ Shlomo Zalman Auerbach TZATZAL and R’ Eliyashiv TZATZAL.”

    They only became known later, at the time in EY there was Tchebiner Rav, Rabbi Shimon Aharon Polansky known as the ‘Tepliker Rav’, (another example of an unknown Posek Hador – who was long forgotten – I bet you there are probably one or two people reading this that have ever heard from him, in fact Rav Elyashiv got semicha from him ) Rav Tzvi Pesach Frank.

    #1427706

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    For Rav Aharon Kotler to Build Lakewood , it took more than just Posek Skills, it took leadership and organizational skills. Its no small task to get a community started like that

    #1427787

    meyushav
    Participant

    Reading the comments here makes me wonder just how childish most people’s views on yiddishkeit are and how uninformed they are about what happens in the world of gedolei torah.

    • There is no such thing as THE Godol Hador who gets appointed and overnight becomes the supreme authority.
    • No one has authority to pass on a mantle of leadership just because they say so, whether in their will or while alive.
    • Those suggesting that Rav Shmuel Auerbach shlita would be stepping into Rav Ahron Leib zt”l’s shoes clearly have no clue about the Peleg issue.
    • It is pretty obvious, however, that Rav Gershon Edelstein shlita will to a great extent take over Rav Ahron Leib’s position in klal yisroel.
    • Rav Boruch Mordechai Ezrachi shlita is a godol batorah, but he is not going to have Rav Shteinman’s authority or take over his role. Similarly, Rav Dovid Cohen shlita (who is relatively very young, not even being 70).
    • Gadolhadorah suggested that one of the roles of a gadol was “administering mosdos”. Where did she get that idea from?
    • Zahavasdad thinks that “Gadol Hador” requires being the final posek of the time. I don’t think either Rav Shteinman nor Rav Shach zt”l were considered that.
    • 147 suggests Gadol Hador is a “5 way consortium”!
    • Gaon – Rav Tzvi Pesach Frank zt”l was niftar in 1960 and the Tepliker Rov zt”l in 1948, well before the 1962 date that iac referred to. Among leading poskim in EY at the time were the Tchebiner Rov zt”l, , Rav Unterman zt”l, the Tzitz Eliezer zt”l, Rav Zolty zt”l. I’m not sure that Rav Shlomo Zalman zt”l and Rav Elyashiv zt”l were recognized at the time as the undisputed final arbiters of halacha.

    #1427808

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    Gaon: R’ Tzvi Pesach frank was niftar almost two years before R’ Ahoron TZATZAL.

    #1427811

    hershh
    Participant

    It’s either R Aron or R Zalmen Leib . We’ll have to wait and see

    #1427841

    az1234
    Participant

    Maran Hagoen Harav Dovid Feinstein Shlita Sheyikye

    #1427853

    Similarly, Rav Dovid Cohen shlita (who is relatively very young, not even being 70).

    That has not kept many a gadol from being acknowledged as such.

    #1427863

    Self esteem
    Participant

    If the Yated faction really opposed Rav Shmuel Auerbach, how is it that Rav Auerbach is still today a member of the Moetzes Gedolei HaTorah of Degel HaTorah?

    #1427925

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    I dont think Rav Dovid Feinstein or any other American Rav (or for that matter any Rav in Chutz L’Aretz) could be considered. It seems the consensus now is to pick a Rav in Israel

    #1427915

    Sadigurarebbe
    Participant

    Self Esteem: Since rav elyashiv’s death rav auerbach has led peleg and has no part in degel hatorah. Where have you been?

    #1427949

    Little Froggie
    Participant

    I’d love to volunteer. NextGadolHadorWannabe.com site is blocked… too much traffic.

    #1427966

    Self esteem
    Participant

    Sadigur Rebbe, when Rav Elyashiv was alive Rav Auerbach and Rav Shteinman Co-Chaired the Degal Moetzes Gedolei HaTorah. Rav Auerbach is still on the Degal Moetzes Gedolei HaTorah today.

    #1427973

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    ZD: I am not sure why you say that. Gedolei Hador can live anywhere.

    #1427978

    apushatayid
    Participant

    “Reading the comments here makes me wonder just how childish most people’s views on yiddishkeit are”

    I’m past the wondering stage.

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