July 21, 2011 8:57 am at 8:57 am #788590fix-it-upMember
I AM APPALED THAT PPL ARE SUGGESTING THAT SHE JSUT WALK OUT OF THE MARRIAGE!
how can someone not knowing the full story and both sides advicate such a thing???
Op-its so sad for me to hear wut you are going through. You need to go to someone who knows you both and not ask advice from everyone. In the mean time, be the best you can be. I know a couple, hu went thru gehemin together. He wouldnt go to counsling, he was abusive verbally and the screaming/ breaking dishes were constant. She didnt get herself together at all and he felt no attraction to her. He slowly started slipping down in yiddishkeit and cursing and missing shacharis became a constant. But she was devoted and determined to make it work. And they started so small. After much pleading and begging they went for a walk and decided on that walk to give eachother 15 minutes a nite, to discuss wtvr they needed to, in quieter voicesand that small thing they kept to. And many times theyd argue those 15 minutes, and it wasnt peaceful. But she davened and made sure for that small time to get herself together nicely and be there, and make it her priority. And her recognized that and appreciated it. I want to tell you its 14 years later and they are an example of what shalom bayis is. A beautiful family and beautiful marriage. he is learning full time now and things worked out. I’m not saying this should be ur solution. Maybe you need to start somtheing small, talk to a rav, wtvr. I’m just saying that im appalled by how easily ppl can suggest to walk out. i understand they want to help you and encourage you and side with you, but then we ask why the divorce rate is so high.
hold strong. go to ppl hu understand both sides, and do ur part and most improtantly daven.
I personally grew up in a home of divorce, and I can def say looking back, that it cldve 100% have been prevented. No, its not like this in all cases. But dont heed advice from ppl you dont know and hu will encourage you to make such a step
The only rite ppl on this blog have is to support you and encourage you to seek other help and sympathize. THAT’S IT.
good luck. I really hope things turn around for you and look happier soon.July 21, 2011 10:35 am at 10:35 am #788591always hereParticipant
I feel your pain… speak with someone (professional/support group).July 21, 2011 12:00 pm at 12:00 pm #788592
“Breaking up wont help the kids religiously. They will still see his religious behaviour, as he will still be their father.”
I agree, breaking up will make him drop any religious observence he still keeps and the kids will be exposed to that even if he is out of the house.
“(I always have to remind him on shabbos, and he always has some excuse why it’s not a good time/the kids need us, etc.).”
Whather its right or wrong, trying to be your husbands mashgiach never works, if anything it will push him farther away, do your thing – bentch with kavana and hopefully it will rub off on him (or at least at the children). Dont try to take care of the ishues he has with G-d/religion, however when it comes to the way he treats YOU then you must take a stand.July 21, 2011 2:20 pm at 2:20 pm #788593
His lack of frumkeit affects me in the sense that he gets annoyed and gives me a hard time when I am involved in things: when I bench either I’m taking too long (I try to have kavannah), or it’s not a good time b/c the kids need me (why can’t he get up off the couch and stop reading his computer magazine to help me watch the kids while I bench? ). He doesn’t make time in his life for frumkeit and doesn’t want me to make time in my life for it either. My situation is so unbelievable, that it’s hard for anyone to advise me. A friend once saw him throw cups of cold water at me in a fit of rage, but when we tried to talk to my best friend about it, she asked “did that really happen?” (nothing like that has ever happened since). Even she couldn’t believe it. She does not want me to walk out, as she sees how hard it is out there for other singles. But she is not living my life. Her husband goes to minyan round the clock and does not put her down, b’h.
My parents want to help, but have limited resources, both financial and emotional. The advice I got is what I’ve been doing, which is to work on myself (my appearance) and get a job, so I could be independent if need be. The problem is, we’re not robots where when person has weight to lose they just do it and gamarnu. I did, and then had a setback after having a rough year with my special needs child. So I look at my future and think, how long can I live like this for where my husband simply refuses to touch me? I hate going to mikvah, which only later highlights the rejection. I’m afraid to go back to the rav to tell him my husband is still having this issue. I blame myself, and then wonder if the way he’s behaving is normal. I’m not running to move on. I just don’t want to be frozen in life forever. I am not a confrontational person, and am scared to be alone, so having these conversations both with our rabbi and him is difficult. Our rav is the rav he chose to pas kin any shailos that might come up in marriage. He was also the rav my husband went to after his first marriage fell apart. The only other rav we have is the one from our shul, who is quiet, busy, and we don’t really have a relationship with him (he was our mesader kiddushin. To dump all this on him is heartbreaking for me.July 21, 2011 2:24 pm at 2:24 pm #788594
“If anyone knows of any such groups and/or contact info please let me know.”
I see you are in the tri-state area, so call 718 851-6300 ask for the domestic abuse department. They do not tell you to divorce but give support to increase your self-esteem & understanding of the dynamics going on in your house. They should give you new techniques how to handle various behaviors you are encountering. And it’s free.
HatzlachaJuly 21, 2011 2:32 pm at 2:32 pm #788595DroidMember
mommamia22: Is this your second marriage?July 21, 2011 2:57 pm at 2:57 pm #788596
No. It’s my first.
(thank you for the tel number)July 21, 2011 3:45 pm at 3:45 pm #788597
“I’m afraid to go back to the rav to tell him my husband is still having this issue”
He can’t help you if he doesn’t have all the facts straight. Given the details, he can either get your husband to get his act straight or advise you to move on.
“I blame myself, and then wonder if the way he’s behaving is normal.”
This is a crippling thought process which you must get out of your head. Think for a minute-he couldn’t get along with his first wife-he threw cold water at you-he can’t keep basic mitzvos-that is not normal – so anything he does is suspect, including not showing affection and putting you down. He is in the hot seat to explain himself, not you. You are normal , he is not. Period. The question is whether you can work with him to get him to change and how.
“The only other rav we have is the one from our shul, who is quiet, busy, and we don’t really have a relationship with him”
It may be worthwhile to call him up-give him a brief rundown of your situation and ask him if he is willing to take this on and if not can he recommend some one. Even if the current rov is ok, it helps to have a second opinion.
You are in a difficult situation and you are not burdening people by asking for assistance. People feel for such situations and are happy to give of themselves.July 21, 2011 3:48 pm at 3:48 pm #788598
What do his parents say and do they carry any weight?July 21, 2011 3:53 pm at 3:53 pm #788599
Mommamia without knowing too much abt this its clear its not ur weight. Any husband who loves and respects his wife doesn’t really care about some pounds and wldnt make a fuss of it. He seems to have issues(story with the cup…I can’t believe this)and needs help but needs to wanna take help. You should never bury ur own life cuz of it neither should u blame urself. Wish I could say moreJuly 21, 2011 4:18 pm at 4:18 pm #788600
When I discussed the problem I was having (mentioned in original post) my mother in law shifted the blame to me and said “why did you let yourself go?”July 21, 2011 5:07 pm at 5:07 pm #788601
Zei mir moichel about ur shvigger…shell never wanna hear her son does any wrong…to me its out of question from the things u post that he has done and is doing wrongJuly 21, 2011 5:42 pm at 5:42 pm #788602
I’m sorry I didn’t understand the latter part of the last post. You’re saying you don’t think my husband has done anything wrong?July 21, 2011 9:10 pm at 9:10 pm #788603
Sorry for not being clear: he did and is doing wrongJuly 21, 2011 9:47 pm at 9:47 pm #788604
We can all try to give you advice but you need profesional guidence, not every rabbi has training/expirience dealing with ishues of shalom beiyis/abuse. There are frum abuse hotlines out there CALL THEM ASAP!! You owe it to yourself, You owe it for your children.July 21, 2011 10:17 pm at 10:17 pm #788605
Mommamia, you don’t deserve to live this way! I don’t know how you deal with this! As I get a clearer picture of your situation, I can more emphatically plead with you to get help and end this horrible gehinom… I’m davening for you and hope everything works out well!!!July 21, 2011 11:04 pm at 11:04 pm #788606observanteenMember
mommamia: I’m all of 18, and I don’t think I am capable of advising you what to do. IMHO though, I think that if he’s a good, patient, and loving father, he probably is a good person who needs a little guidance. He’s probably not stable and still struggling with some unfinished issues of his first marriage. Perhaps you need to involve a third party (NOT your best friend. Go to a proffesional.). Try going for help. I highly doubt he’s presently enjoying the relationship as is. Maybe he’s willing to make it work. Talk to him. After all, he’s your husband. Put out your cards on the table and ask him what he suggest you do in this situation. Tell him you’re willing to change and make this work, but he has to put in his effort too.
This is just my very humble opinion based on what you said. I think that aside from getting the opinions of anonymous posters on here you should seek advice from a Daas Torah. Especially since you mentioned he’s struggling with Yiddishkeit as well. Hatzlacha rabba.July 21, 2011 11:11 pm at 11:11 pm #788607
Thank you all for taking the time to write. It does give me some perspective on the matter hearing how others view what’s been happening. Time to get my courage up. Do you think I should call an abuse hotline first or speak with a rav?July 21, 2011 11:22 pm at 11:22 pm #788608
An abuse hotline will be able to refere you to a rav who has expirience dealing with these ishues.July 21, 2011 11:24 pm at 11:24 pm #788609popa_bar_abbaParticipant
An abuse hotline will be able to refere you to a rav who has expirience dealing with these ishues.
Yes to the abuse hotline. But a rav? I think you’d be better off asking your mother in law.July 21, 2011 11:26 pm at 11:26 pm #788610
You can try Shalom tesk force 888-883-2323
I believe they also have a webside.July 21, 2011 11:35 pm at 11:35 pm #788611MindOverChatterParticipant
I’d suggest you first ask Daas Torah. Hatzlacha.July 22, 2011 12:14 am at 12:14 am #788612
No reason that you can’t pursue both options at the same time. You will probably end up needing help from both services anyways.July 22, 2011 2:23 pm at 2:23 pm #788613
‘…my mother in law shifted the blame to me and said “why did you let yourself go?”‘
Your MIL raised your husband…the modus operandi of abusers is to blame others and not take responsibility themselves.
Even if you are 10 pounds overweight, you still do not deserve to have cups of water thrown at you or be the recipient of onaas dvorim or neglected.
Check out the abuse wheel and see if you can identify with any of the behaviors at domesticviolence.org/violence-wheel/
Even if you would lose the weight, guaranteed there would be something else about you that would be found lacking. This never ends, as none of us is perfect.
A healthy relationship should include support, communication, boundaries, trust, respect, honesty, accountability, & responsiblityJuly 22, 2011 3:54 pm at 3:54 pm #788614adorableParticipant
observant- very well said. I would tell him that you wanna leave if you dont see a marked improvement in the next — weeks and that he must be willing to go to someone professional as well as have a rav thats going to guide him and that hes going to listen to. if not I would tell you to get yourself a job and get out of his home!July 22, 2011 4:09 pm at 4:09 pm #788615
Mods-I would like to give her the number for R’ Moshe Meir Weiss but do not want to publicize it on this site-how can I do that?July 22, 2011 6:09 pm at 6:09 pm #788616
“…get out of his home!”
you mean YOUR (pl) homeJuly 22, 2011 6:15 pm at 6:15 pm #788617
AYC Oh yes!! let the bum know that if someone goes he goes, maybe then he will relize that he DOES have something to loose and will start behaving like a man.July 22, 2011 6:20 pm at 6:20 pm #788618
“if not I would tell you to get yourself a job”
In any case that will be a good idea, if possible even get a degree so you want be so dependent on him everytime you need twanty bucks which will give some control.July 22, 2011 6:24 pm at 6:24 pm #788619
If a man pays the rent, how can you tell him to leave? Not that I’m ready to do that, but shouldn’t the one who wants out leave? This is part of what worries me. Homelessness with kids.July 22, 2011 6:28 pm at 6:28 pm #788620
At least temporarily would you be able to go to your parents or a close friend, if you had to?July 22, 2011 6:28 pm at 6:28 pm #788621
Or homelessness without kids. (He may take them.)July 22, 2011 6:33 pm at 6:33 pm #788622
“Homelessness with kids.”
Please call the numbers already provided for you here on this thread. This worry is a common one for victims in your situation and are addressed there.July 22, 2011 6:36 pm at 6:36 pm #788623
If he wants to be IN let him behave like he is IN. Thats why its so importent for you to have a job, not that you HAVE to pay the rent but for him to know that you have the possibility to do so if he dosen’t shape up.July 22, 2011 6:47 pm at 6:47 pm #788624
And what if she loses her job? She’s on the street without him.July 22, 2011 6:53 pm at 6:53 pm #788625
And what if HE loses his job?
There are many possible scenarios.
Right now she needs emotional and psychological support to increase self-esteem.
D’ya think you could do that? 🙂July 22, 2011 6:58 pm at 6:58 pm #788626
But not false hope. She mentioned her parents are not financially well enough to support her and her kids.July 22, 2011 7:00 pm at 7:00 pm #788627
AYC – you the words out of my mouth.July 22, 2011 7:06 pm at 7:06 pm #788628
Back to the title of this tread “who needs to change”, the answer is YOU!!
YOU need to believe more in yourself!!
YOU need to DEMAND more respect!!
YOU need to be less dependent!!
YOU can do it!!
(keep in mind I never said you should leave him, but the option needs to be on the table, he can’t take you for granted. I do believe that once you put down the rules he might change).July 22, 2011 7:08 pm at 7:08 pm #788629
The hotline & agencies help victims deal with the finances.
But this is putting the cart before the horse; let her seek out help first, no one’s leaving at this point!July 22, 2011 8:51 pm at 8:51 pm #788630HaKatanParticipant
First, I’m sorry to hear of your pain.
Second, I think observanteen and others said it well.
Clearly, he is having some serious issues, and, as much as he *may* be struggling, it is obviously absurdly ridiculous to blame all that on you not looking like you did the day you got married.
From what you described, it sounds like he is depressed and/or otherwise dysfunctional primarily due to other issues, including perhaps his marital history and other reasons not directly related to you.
Also, if he’s not putting on Tefillin due to depression then that’s a whole different story than if he CH”V does not believe in Torah and Mitzvos. I’m assuming that’s why this Rav told you to stay out of your husband’s observance issues, as it seems to be due to external issues and not anything that can be addressed in that way. If it were a matter of chizuk in emuna then that *might* be a different story, but if he knows full well he should be putting on Tefillin (and more) then that’s not something to be dealt with lightly.
As far as his rejecting you, if he’s depressed and/or otherwise struggling with other issues then even if you looked perfect it still wouldn’t take away that depression and/or other issues. That doesn’t mean it wouldn’t be helpful to him; the more that works out well, the better, of course. But from what you write, the main problems/issues would still be there and outside intervention of some sort might still be needed.
A professional should be able with Hashem’s help to sort this out and that hotline might have the right shaliach on their lists.
Hatzlacha Rabba and much simcha viNachas to both of you from each other and your families.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.