April 10, 2019 8:48 am at 8:48 am #1712567Toothpick17Participant
Im going to eretz yisroel. Haven’t seen my Rebbe in a while where should I visit first my Rebbe or the kosel?April 10, 2019 11:31 am at 11:31 am #1712675
The logic of first visiting the tzaddik is so that he can daven for you and be melamed zchus for you so that your tefilos at the kosel will be later accepted.
This logic is found in Sh”T Dvoray Emes s. 13, that one should first go to keveri tzaddikimbefore visiting kever of his parents because the tzaddikim will add zchusim to him in Gan Eden HaElyon, so that when he later visits his parent’s kever, he comes in a holier state.
The Sh”T Mishne Sochir (Y.D. 2, s. 238) writes the contrary, that one should first visit his father’s kever before his rebbe’s kever because by bakoshos of rachamim, the father has greater rachamim on his son then the rebbe.
This logic may apply too, that visiting the rebbe for bakoshas rachamim on his chosid/student may preceed before visiting the kosel for bakoshas rachamim.
(After considering the fact that HKBH is our Father (“bni b’chori Yisroel”), and a Rebbe is also a father to his student/chassid – still the wordly connection of a Rebbe-student is more apparent)April 10, 2019 11:31 am at 11:31 am #1712732apushatayidParticipant
Thats a good question. Why not ask your Rebbe?April 10, 2019 11:44 am at 11:44 am #1712746Yserbius123Participant
Do you want to see the remains of a Mikdash or a living Mikdash?April 10, 2019 11:44 am at 11:44 am #1712747LerntminTayrahParticipant
Rebbe of course. Torah>tourismApril 10, 2019 11:45 am at 11:45 am #1712767lakewhutParticipant
Do you pray to a Rebbe?April 10, 2019 11:47 am at 11:47 am #1712768☕️coffee addictParticipant
If you don’t plan on changing your shirt in between I think it’s better to visit your rebbe firstApril 10, 2019 12:17 pm at 12:17 pm #1712793
I posted earlier that there is a strong reason to first visit the Rebbe (based on seforim cited), but I need to qualify that response: It applies if visiting for a bakosha (- which is most common and nearly anything qualifies as a bakosha).
However, if visiting strictly to give kovod (as a form of Ola Regel), then Kovod Shamayim would certainly come first because both the talmid/chosid and the Rebbe/tzadik are michuyav in kovod Shamayim.April 10, 2019 2:18 pm at 2:18 pm #1712926Reb EliezerParticipant
There is a Noda Bayehuda who says that visitiing the Rebbe on yom tov does not apply currently because visting the makom hashchina has precedence.April 10, 2019 9:54 pm at 9:54 pm #1713200
Laskern – you know the Mogen Avrohom s. 301, s’k 7 and s. 554 s”k 12 rules that there IS a mitzva to visit rebbe/tzaddik on yom tov, as do the overwhelming majority of poskim. The Noda B’Yehdah (Tanina, O.Ch. s. 940 is a lone opinion, and difficult to understand – especially that he does not mention the Mogen Avraham at all.
In any event, “ma shmita aitzel har Sinai”, I don’t understand the connection between your comment and the discussion of this thread Subject: “Who to visit first Rebbe or kosel” Are you trying to switch subjects?April 10, 2019 9:54 pm at 9:54 pm #1713204
Folks, can’t you see you’re being toothpicked trolled?
His deliberate lower/upper case words done for a purpose, bad syntax , and spelling errors on his other thread…
Translating a Yiddish expression : Same yenta with a different veil… Our yenta lives here.April 11, 2019 12:20 am at 12:20 am #1713227
ZionGate – I don’t follow your logic, A Noda B’Yehuda was mentioned. I provided the citation for it and added that it is contrary to Mogen Avrohom and all other poskim. I also wondered what that N.B. has to do with the OP question and the conversation. Am I missing something (I did remember to take my meds) or are you missing something?April 11, 2019 7:03 am at 7:03 am #1713231
… but a comment to laskern & Rebbetz. I believe the discussion about visiting your rebbe is in Meseches Succos, and some meforshim explain it to mean bezman Beis Hamikdash- that on yom tov only if he lives nearby because has to be home to be mesameach his own family.
Can’t recall the daf this moment.April 11, 2019 7:03 am at 7:03 am #1713232
Clarification: That he can visit him on yom tov, but not the whole day…April 11, 2019 7:03 am at 7:03 am #1713239
And his rebbe muvek.. but our troll doesn’t really want an answerApril 11, 2019 7:05 am at 7:05 am #1713249Baruch M.Participant
The Tzitz Eliezer deals with a similar question – A Rabbi falls holding a Sefer Torah. both are on the floor, who do you help up first? He explains that its dependent on how you answer a stira in gemaras . One place it says that a Torah has more of a din kavod and in another gemara its mashma that a Rebbe has a greater chiyuv. In the end he shows its really a three way machlokes.
A) The Rebbe has more kavod since he fulfills the purpose of the Torah, therefore should be taken care of first.
B) The Torah as the source has a greater level of kavod and it comes first.
C) The gemaras were referring to different types of Talmidei Chachamim -a “stam” T”CH and a Gadol B’yisroel. The Gadol has precedence over the Torah, and the Torah over the Stam Talmid Chacham.
One could argue that the same would be in your case.
It should be noted that if there is Tzar to the Rebbe then all agree he has kadima over the Sefer Torah.April 11, 2019 7:06 am at 7:06 am #1713272
Relax, I commented on the OP, not about you.April 11, 2019 9:40 am at 9:40 am #1713347
Boruch M – if a rebbe get more kovod than a sefer Torah, why are you allowed to let a rebbe go into a washroom but you must not let a sefer Torah enter a washroom? (Now I am trolling).April 11, 2019 9:41 am at 9:41 am #1713364
ZionGate, the OP might have thought that “of course you first visit Kosel before you visit rebbe”, but what we think is often not what the Torah thinks, as I cited seforim about visiting kever of rebbe before kever of parents.
I actually get a thrill when I see how my “mind set” ( הסמ”ע (חו”מ ג,יג), דעת בעלי בתים היא היפך מדעת תורה. ) was not in sync with what halacha states. Even the simple egg which I think has no “issues” in halacha, becomes a minefield of halachic complexities worthy of discussion and debate.
Sometimes the simplest question are the most difficult to answer correctly (especially when we approach them with pre-conceived ideas). It is so much easier to brush them off by saying the OP is trolling or when frustrated that one cannot come up with a clear explanation, to proclaim that the Op is twisting and distorting halacha.
I opened a ffew topics that ask the simple questions that have no simple answers (e.g. Are women m’chuyov in Ad Dlo Yada on Purim, Why Aren’t Eggs Fleishig, If Moshiach Arrives Today – Will The Geula Be Delayed Till After We Do Bedikas Chometz At Night…). There is enough such material to fill a sefer.April 11, 2019 11:08 am at 11:08 am #1713453
… unlike this underhanded wiseguy, I feel your posts are not meant to be vindictive or push an agenda. You want debate and entertain even off the wall, this toshav troll wants to shtech. That’s the difference.April 11, 2019 12:01 pm at 12:01 pm #1713432
Please look…. He davka put the”eretz yisroel” and ” kosel” in lower case and ” Rebbe” without a followup name in upper.. Troll is not looking for answer… He wants to send his message. If you guessed who he is, you guessed right. Chag Someach..!! Easy on the borscht.April 11, 2019 4:12 pm at 4:12 pm #1713575
“debate and entertain even off the wall”. my debates are most entertaining when I am off my meds or maybe when I am on my meds – not for me to decide.April 11, 2019 4:32 pm at 4:32 pm #1713659
Re: Off meds
I think there’s hardly anyone over 50 these days that’s not on some kinds of meds.April 12, 2019 12:45 am at 12:45 am #1713697
There is a real company in Vicksburg called Troll Meds and that is what they sell. Really! Google it.
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