Who was the worst President of your lifetime?

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  • #618768
    Joseph
    Participant

    Who was the worst President of your lifetime?

    Explain why.

    Who was the best? Explain.

    #1197158
    Lightbrite
    Participant

    I had a really awesome elementary school principal. She knew everyone’s name by heart

    #1197159
    WinnieThePooh
    Participant

    Not counting Obama, since he is still president and cannot yet be considered in past tense, I would say Carter.

    Why? The only thing memorable about his presidency was the Iran hostage crisis.

    #1197160
    ubiquitin
    Participant

    Winnie if thats the only thing memorable, obviously your judgement is cloudy

    Do you really not remember the Camp David accords?

    You may still conclude he was the worst, but you should brsuh up your memory before making that conclusion.

    .

    #1197161
    WinnieThePooh
    Participant

    Only thing needed brushing right now is my teeth, memory is fine B”H. I rather forget the Camp David Accords though, I do not think it was ultimately a good thing for Israel.

    #1197162
    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    And while you are at it, you can also tell us who the first president was that you remember.

    #1197163
    huju
    Participant

    Re comment by WinnieThePooh: As a result of the efforts of President Carter, Egypt has been at peace with Israel for over 35 years, many of them tumultuous. 35 years is approximately forever in terms of world peace. So Carter is cleary not the worst president of the last 40/50/60/70 years. Christopher Robin bumped your head a little too much when he dragged you down the stairs.

    #1197164
    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    Lilmod Ulelamaid…………..

    The first US President I remember was Dwight Eisenhower.

    He was also one of the worst and most ineffective Presidents in my lifetime.

    He was a war hero who was courted by both parties and sold out to the Republicans. He brought us that vile right wing VP Tricky Dick Nixon…the only US President to ever have to resign the office.

    Eisenhower enriched the Military/Industrial complex at the expense of the ordinary citizens. He spent major periods of time playing golf and/or recuperating from heart attacks at his farm while the Dulles brothers led us to ruin.

    He got us involved in French Indo-China (Viet Nam) allowed screwball Senator McCarthy to ruin the lives of countless American Jews (among others) with his blacklists and the kangaroo court HUAC hearings.

    Nothing good came out of his administration.

    The Presidency of Bill Clinton was the best I’ve lived through. I admit my bias having known both Clintons personally since their days at Yale Law School. There was great prosperity in the land. Minorities made major achievements socially and economically. There was general peace, our troops had little active engagement overseas. I liked his judicial appointments and other policies.

    It was the last time our government operated for a year with a balanced budget.

    Personally, I never lost so much money and had such lousy business experiences as in both Bush administrations. These Republicans were not good for business, as opposed to being good for their WASP elite friends and the Saudi Royal family. They used brother Jeb to steal the 2000 election and always hide the fact the brother Neil cost US taxpayers millions in the bailout of Siverado Savings and Loan. Laura was a drunk who committed vehicular homicide and was then first lady, so how can we complain about what Trump is bringing in as the next first ‘lady?’ I am embarrassed to be from the same hometown as GW Bush..both born in Grace New Haven Hospital during the post WWII baby boom.

    #1197165
    iacisrmma
    Participant

    Daniel Patrick Moynihan used to say “everyone is entitled to their opinion. However, no one is entitled to their own set of facts!” The question asks for an opinion. Most people over the age of 50 will probably answer Carter despite the Camp David Accords. Others will say Reagan. Bush, or Clinton. Technically any of these answers are correct as it is the posters opinion. Please don’t waste space arguing on someone’s opinion.

    #1197166
    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Joseph, who was yours?

    #1197167
    WinnieThePooh
    Participant

    I really did not want to have to argue politics here, but I believe that Camp David set a dangerous precedent for “peace treaties” that have had worse consequences. Giving away the Sinai meant Israel cannot control the entry of terrorists and weapons into Gaza. And although there have been no active conflicts with Egypt B”H, they aren’t exactly our friends. It’s not so much peace, as a cold war, which I guess for the MidEast is as good as you are going to get.

    And I do not believe that Carter was motivated by his love for Israel. His actions in the more recent past has shown where his true feelings lie, something we probably did not realize when he was president.

    Camp David aside, Carter was not exactly a successful president- at least the electorate thought that, as he wasn’t even elected to a second term! I guess Christopher Robbin bumped all those heads too?

    #1197168
    tznius
    Member

    Obama was the worst and Trump will iy’h be the best.

    #1197169
    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    “Trump will iy’h be the best.” We can’t possibly know that – “lev melachim b’yad Hashem”. Only Hashem will decide how he will be.

    #1197170
    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    Winnie……….

    I’m no fan of Carter, I don’t trust evangelicals in general.

    That said, Carter did not give away the Sinai, Begin did. Carter hosted and facilitated the Camp David meetings and accords, but he did not have to power to give away land that did not belong to the USDA or was not under its control.

    Did he exert influence? Yes, but the decision in the ed was that of the Israeli and Egyptian governments and their respective leaders.

    #1197171
    Joseph
    Participant

    CTL, Economic prosperity in the nation and balanced budgets are to the credit of Congress far far more than to the president. The cycles you credit had Republican Congresses.

    #1197172
    yehudayona
    Participant

    I’m not sure if winning or losing reelection is a good test for how good or bad a president is. Circumstances have a major effect (e.g. the Great Depression with Hoover, the Iran hostage situation with Carter, 9/11 with G.W. Bush).

    CTL, I disagree with your characterization of Nixon as right wing. He normalized relations with China and he instituted wage-price controls. Those are not right wing policies. IMHO, he was the worst president, probably ever. I don’t think it’s fair to blame Eisenhower for Nixon. Probably Johnson’s Vietnam debacle is most responsible for the rise of Nixon, and it’s a stretch to blame either of LBJ’s predecessors for the way he handled the situation.

    #1197173
    Joseph
    Participant

    JFK was at least as responsible for the mess in Vietnam as LBJ was. The only reason JFK’s mediocre presidency is overrated by liberal self-appointed historians and newspapermen, is because he was assassinated.

    #1197174
    Joseph
    Participant

    The lying under oath, impeached, cheating (disgracing the Oval Office, no less, to use as his hideout) and disbarred Slick Willie Clinton (and his crocodile tears) was rightly impeached for only the second time in US presidential history.

    #1197175
    Little Froggie
    Participant

    My one and a quarter cents?

    This character Clinton. My filter, excuse me, would not allow me to read up, not that I was really into all, or part of his debauchery, shmutz. A president is supposed to be the face of the nation, tho one who stands for the nation. And this menuval brought it low, way low. Imagine having a president you don’t trust to babysit… As Jews, we ought to look upon thsese matters before evaluation whether he’s good or bad for the economy. Whether he’s good or bad for Israel, too. Morality is our prime focus. Now, we know that all goyim are not tzadikim… but we, as Jews, as representatives of HaShem on this world, have to be concerned with one who is so openly vile, disgusting, lewd, base.

    People look up to us, take note of whom we admire, who we support. No, we cannot be known as a people who throw away everything important, everything of value for a mere bit of carrots.

    Thank you for saving me the time…Exactly what I had thought to say

    #1197176
    ubiquitin
    Participant

    Winnie (and iacarsima)

    I wasn’t arguing on your choice of Carter (though I think bush was worse based on the economy and the constant state of fear/ war that began under his watch)

    All I’m saying is that if you can only remember one event from his presidencythen you aren’t a fair judge. If after reviewing several facets you come to the same conclusion, ok that is an opinion grounded in fact.

    As for the best. Without question, Clinton based on the peace and economic prosperity under his watch.

    #1197177
    ubiquitin
    Participant

    Lf

    I hope for the sake of consistency you nominate trump for being the worst (or second worst after clinton) based on your metric regardless of how he turns out regarding economy, Israel etc.

    #1197178
    Joseph
    Participant

    As previously stated, the economic prosperity came under the watch of the Republican Congress. And it is Congress, NOT the President, that has the Constitutional power of the purse.

    What Slick Willie WAS responsible for, aside for the gross immorality previously alluded to, was allowing Osama bin Laden and al Qaida to build their terrorist network and plan the biggest terror attack on US soil only a few months after Slick Willie left office, all prepared years in advance while Slick Willie was sleeping at the wheel, reducing our military and anti-terrorist resources. Even when bin Laden attacked America in ’98 at our embassy and on a US warship in 2000, Slick Willie couldn’t do anything in response much more than bomb a drug factory in Afghanistan. Which Osama said if that’s all America does when attacked, let’s attack it again much harder – in their homeland itself.

    #1197179
    WinnieThePooh
    Participant

    CTL- I know that Carter did not execute the accords, just brought the parties together, and I did not bring them up in my original post. Ubiquitin brought them up as a reason that I should not dismiss him as a bad president, and huju argued how since it was successful and brought 35 yrs of peace, Carter ain’t so bad. I was just disagreeing with their rosy view of Camp David.

    I think I am going to skip on the best president question, for fear of more people fighting with me on my own opinion.

    I think though it is safe to answer LU’s question. First president I can remember hearing about was Nixon. Somehow I thought he had something to do with ice cream, because his name sounded to me like “Dixie cups”. I’ve grown up a bit since, but still can’t help but associate him with ice cream.

    #1197180
    WinnieThePooh
    Participant

    ubiquitin- thanks for explaining what you meant. and my choice of Carter was not based on just the one event, just that one stands out as the most obvious reason for him to win that category, in my opinion. But I am not an expert in history or politics, so my opinion is just that, an opinion.

    #1197181
    flatbusher
    Participant

    Obama and Carter will have to battle for title of the worst, but I think Obama has the edge

    #1197182
    Joseph
    Participant

    I think Clinton was worse than both Obama and Carter. Not an easy victory for Clinton, but a victory over those two nonetheless.

    #1197183
    lesschumras
    Participant

    Carter was by far the worst

    #1197184
    WinnieThePooh
    Participant

    So to summarize, some people are judging worst based on character, some on policies, and some on the long-term ramifications of their presidencies.

    But only one vote for best president, as far as I can see. That doesn’t bode well for the state of the union…

    #1197185
    benignuman
    Participant

    George W. Bush was the worst in my lifetime, despite being a good man. The Iraq War was the worst mistake of his presidency, but by no means the only mistake. Allowing Feddie and Fannie to help perpetuate the housing bubble, creating new entitlements and running up the debt, and the Patriot Act are additional misguided, albeit well-intentioned, Bush errors.

    #1197186
    benignuman
    Participant

    Best in my lifetime is probably Reagan with Clinton a close second.

    #1197187
    Joseph
    Participant

    Ronald Reagan was the best by a longshot. Economic revival from the Carter inflationary years, optimism, morality and building the conservative movement.

    George W. Bush was also a great president and probably the best friend the Jews had in the White House in well over a century, if not longer. The Iraq War disposed of a war criminal dictator who was a threat to Israel and general world peace. That alone made the war worthwhile, aside for the other good reasons. He sent scud missiles flying into Israel when Israel was not at war with Iraq, decided to occupy a neighboring country, attempted to assassinate a former US president, etc. Not to mention his using weapons of mass destruction to commit mass murder by gassing with chemical weapons thousands of his own people that he perceived as political opponents of his. The removal of that menace was truly a gift to humanity.

    #1197188
    ubiquitin
    Participant

    Lol joseph you are funny!

    “As previously stated, the economic prosperity came under the watch of the Republican Congress. And it is Congress, NOT the President, that has the Constitutional power of the purse.”

    “Ronald Reagan was the best by a longshot. Economic revival from the Carter inflationary years”

    the Democrats had the house during the entirety of Reagen’s presidency and the senate as well during his second term.

    As for Bush

    The war in IRaq placed left an unchecked Iran (As Cheney predicted in 92′ would happen) so unless you think the world is more stable with Iran unchecked than with IRaq in power (which is certainly a plausible opinion though not one most would agree with )the Iraq war was a disastrous mistake.

    Of course Bush being the best for ISrael is only factual if you forget about his reaction’s to the “massacre” in Jenin, his call to divide Yerushalyim (first President to do so) among others. Granted he was better than Reagan who was first to recognizethe PLO and for supporting The Security council’s condemnation for Israel’s attacking IRaq’s nuclear facitlty.

    #1197189
    Joseph
    Participant

    Reagan had the upper house of Congress for six years, thus most of the credit clearly goes to the Republicans controlling the presidency and part of Congress.

    If you’re a chosid of Dick Cheney, obviously you’ll agree with his position on what is the best Iran/Iraq dynamic, for US interests in the run-up to the Iraqi war – which he was a strong proponent.

    As far as W. and the Jews, he clearly was the best friend we’ve had in a very long time in the Oval Office. Even you couldn’t make another President who you could plausibly claim better, with any cited evidence.

    As far as dividing Jerusalem, that was Bill Clinton’s position. Google “The Clinton Parameters”.

    #1197190
    ubiquitin
    Participant

    Joseph

    “As far as W. and the Jews, he clearly was the best friend we’ve had in a very long time in the Oval Office. Even you couldn’t make another President who you could plausibly claim better, with any cited evidence.”

    I definitely can.

    However It depends on what you mean by “good for Israel”

    I think pressuring Israel to give up land for nothing in return is bad for Israel. Bush did that (Gush Katif) Obama has not. (Yes I know some Bush lovers pretend he did no such thing, spare me it wasnt that long ago) Dont forge tthe 2003 withholding of loan gaurantees as “punishment” for “illegal” construction in the west bank. and of course Bush calling for an international investigation after the Battle of Jenin.

    IF you define good for ISrael as supporting militarily

    again OBama was better than Bush. For example Bush refused to sell “bunker buster” bombs which Obama did. Bush’s Pentagon’s response to requests for Iron Dome was “Frosty” (WSJ 11/26/12) Obama of course pushed it through saving many Jewsih lives, Zul er zein gezunt un shtark. Military cooperation has increased.

    If you define Good for Israel as support in the U.N.

    Care to gues how many security council resolutions agaisn tISrael Obama let pass?

    Ok i’ll tell you. It is zero. Not even one. Under W? 6 deemed by Israelis to be “one sided”

    Guess when the first s.c. resolution calling for two staes passed? Ok ill tell you 2002. guess who was PResident?

    now granted if your sole descriptor of “good for Israel” is the warmth of relationship betweent the P.M. and PResident, I’ll Grant Bush and Sharon had a far better relationship then Obama and Netanyahu (who openly campaigned for his opponent) However if you are looking for anything of substance I beleive I have cited plenty of evidence.

    And no I’m not a chassid of Dick Cheney. Though even he can be right from time to time and he was right in 92 not in 2001. Even your party’s nominee realises that now, he also said that bush should have been impeached. A view clearly not repudiated by to many in your party based on the results of the primaries..

    #1197191
    Joseph
    Participant

    If Watergate and the events leading up to the resignation hadn’t occurred, Nixon would be considered one of America’s best presidents in history.

    #1197192
    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    Joseph………….

    Nixon was a lousy Jew Hating Senator and VP before he was a dishonest Jew Hating President. He had terrible judgment in picking his VP Spiro T Agnew of Maryland…thus giving us the only President of the US who had to resign also having a VP who had to resign.

    His domestic policy was terrible, his foreign policy was often brilliant, but he was POTUS not Secretary of State and as such he was a loser

    #1197193
    yehudayona
    Participant

    Joseph, don’t forget Nixon’s bombing of Cambodia. Many historians hold the Cambodia campaign largely responsible for the rise of the Khmer Rouge regime, which caused the death of around 2 million Cambodians.

    #1197194
    benignuman
    Participant

    On the other hand, Nixon’s bombing of Cambodia also help end the Vietnam War saving thousands of American lives. Nixon bombed Cambodia because the North Vietnamese and the Viet Cong had been using Cambodia as a “safe zone” where they would flee to recover and rearm knowing that the Americans wouldn’t bomb them there (and even attack American and South Vietnamese Troops from Cambodian soil). The Americans bombed the North Vietnamese that were in Cambodia, not the entire country. The lack of Cambodian safe zone and the bombing of Ho Chi Mihn City helped bring North Vietnam to the negotiating table to sign the Paris Peace Accords in early 1973.

    To say that the bombing of Cambodia “led to the rise of Khmer Rouge” is historical speculation. Khmer Rouge pre-existed the bombing and received direct help from the North Vietnamese in overthrowing the government. Arguably, the opposite is true. If Nixon hadn’t been under investigation because of Watergate and hadn’t been frustrated by Congress with the Case-Church amendment, Nixon would have prevented Khmer Rouge from taking Cambodia. There is simply no way to know one way or the other.

    While Nixon certainly had some classic Anti-semitic prejudices, he also saved the state of Israel and millions of Jewish lives by re-arming the Israeli Defense Forces in the middle of the Yom Kippur War.

    #1197195
    benignuman
    Participant

    CTLawyer,

    The idea that Eisenhower didn’t accomplish anything in his presidency is laughable. The irony is that you can make the exact same argument for Eisenhower as you made for Clinton, economic prosperity and economic improvement in all income classes. In fact Clinton described himself and his administration as “Eisenhower Republicans”!

    Read “The Hidden Hand Presidency” to get an appreciation for the President that ended the Korean War, enforced desegregation, kept inflation near zero, didn’t run up the debt but still enhanced the US military and the Nuclear Arsenal, and created the strategy of nuclear deterrence, among many other accomplishments.

    #1197196
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Carter.

    #1197197
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Buchanan

    #1197198
    lakewhut
    Participant

    I think GWB was a great guy, but he didn’t execute the right policies. For that, I think he did a worse job than Bill Clinton and Obama. I’ll always vote Republican, but the Iraq war was a total disaster.

    #1197199
    lakewhut
    Participant

    @Beninguiman yes.

    #1197200
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Christie would have been the best president ever, except for GWB.

    #1197201
    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    I’ve been trying to figure out everyone’s ages based on which presidents they remember (I want to see if anyone is older than me). So far, DY wins the prize by a long shot!

    Otherwise, most people seem to be around the same age as me, besides CT Lawyer.

    #1197202
    Meno
    Participant

    George Washington

    #1197203
    Joseph
    Participant

    lilmod, though I wasn’t yet an adult during his term to be able to claim I recall events in detail, Hoover was a fairly good president despite his tenure being marred by the Great Depression – which was no fault of his.

    #1197204

    Jimmy Carter

    #1197205

    benignuman,

    You missed

    the most Important part about

    Eisenhower

    When he was in the White House

    Americans felt safe.

    He gave a secure,calming effect more than any president since.

    #1197206
    Joseph
    Participant

    FDR was a bad president on very many levels.

    Did others notice how the media and liberal self-declared historians fawn over Democrat presidents and give many of them a loving nickname/acronym such as FDR, JFK and LBJ? (It isn’t anything recent.)

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