August 27, 2023 11:56 pm at 11:56 pm #2220322AshifromrocklandParticipant
I was wondering I’m curious if anyone in this form knows who is responsible to get the entire Kehila to join in for the singing of Lecha Dodi.
Is it the Baal Tefila or is it each person’s personal responsibility to sing?
The reason why I’m asking you this is because last week I saw three people in my Shul making fun between themselves of the Chazan and his lackluster performance.
As an aside, as one of the Gabbaim of the Minyan I know how many people it took to finally find one person to agree to lead the congregation, our eventual Baal Tefila only went up to the Amud because no one else would.
So noAugust 28, 2023 6:13 am at 6:13 am #2220349Sam KleinParticipant
Every community and level of shul will have a different opinion for you about this issue. AKA conservative and reform temples will Tell you that ladies also should be involved in the singing but we know the truth that halachically that is not permitted etc…. And many other opinions on whose responsibility it is with each one based on a different reason even if they are all true.
BUT THE BOTTOM LINE IS ARE THEY ALL PERMITTED???? and that is always going to end with the special gift Hashem blessed only humanity with of free-will and choice. But whatever each person own decision is at the end of the day we are all held responsible for our decisions we make so make sure that “YOU THINK AND MAKE A SERIOUS ACCOUNTING BEFORE DOING ANYTHING THROUGHOUT LIFE” asking yourself if something is permitted to do or not and just something your physical evil desire wants you to do and run after even though it’s not permitted.
Now in the month of Elul which is the month of Teshuva/repentance and Preparation for the new year is the perfect time to start working on this new way of life of making a self accounting with yourself before doing anything throughout the day and throughout life ahead.
I wish all our YWN coffee room friends a year of happiness and success ahead with Hashem always answering your call for help when you call out to Hashem wholeheartedly for anything.August 28, 2023 9:06 am at 9:06 am #2220370DaMosheParticipant
Sam, it’s not so simple to say that women shouldn’t sing along in shul.
Both R’ Azriel Hildeshimer and R’ Samson Rafael Hirsch ruled that a woman can sing zemiros together with men. R’ Yechiel Yaakov Weinberg, in Teshuvot Seridei Eish 2:8, says that this is because of the rule Trei Kali Lo Mishtamai.
So if the men aren’t singing, it would be problematic, but if men are singing, it would seem there are opinions of major Rabbonim who would allow women to sing along.
As far as who should get people involved – I think it’s a joint effort. I’ve been in shuls where the baal tefillah pulls out an obscure tune, that nobody else knows, and he ends up singing by himself. I think that a baal tefillah should choose tunes that are known by most people, so that this doesn’t happen. If there’s a tune that is familiar to you, then there’s not really a reason to not sing along, and the kehillah should join in. If people are busy talking, that’s a bigger issue that must be addressed.August 28, 2023 9:06 am at 9:06 am #2220372RockyParticipant
Back in slabodka we did not sing lecha dodi. This is an American invention in the litvishe kehilos and should be abolishedAugust 28, 2023 9:32 am at 9:32 am #2220384GadolhadorahParticipant
This is an American invention in the litvishe kehilos and should be abolished”
Rocky: Not everything Litvish is bad and should be abolished. Davening in nusach Ashkenaz, adding garlic by the kg to chulent, teffilin on chol hamoed….Where would you choose to live your life??August 28, 2023 10:10 am at 10:10 am #2220399takahmamashParticipant
P.S. To the OP: it’s “whose job,” not “who’s job.”August 28, 2023 10:10 am at 10:10 am #2220397takahmamashParticipant
The baal t’fila needs to know his audience in the shule. He needs to pick a tune that people know. He needs to sing it in the proper key, so that people will be able to sing along. (Many a baal t’fila will sing in a key that is too high.) He needs to pick faster tunes in the summer, because it’s late and people don’t want to dray out the davening with slow songs. Ultimately, the baal t’filla can only do so much, but if he knows what he’s doing, people will sing along.August 28, 2023 10:11 am at 10:11 am #2220392ah yidParticipant
Singing by Lexus Dodi happens to be a chasidishe inovation I believe it was the Ropshitzer Rov who began the singing of Lecha DodiAugust 28, 2023 10:12 am at 10:12 am #2220389nishtdayngesheftParticipant
Not surprisingly you misunderstood what Rocky was saying (albeit jokingly). He was saying this is new to litvish shuls. In Lita they did not sing lecha dodi. He was jokingly saying that it should be banned in litvish kehilos. Not because it is litvish, but because it isn’t. Now you will see why your comment does not seem to make sense. It’s like too much herring got to you.August 28, 2023 11:03 am at 11:03 am #2220431Avram in MDParticipant
“I think that a baal tefillah should choose tunes that are known by most people, so that this doesn’t happen. If there’s a tune that is familiar to you, then there’s not really a reason to not sing along, and the kehillah should join in.”
In some kehillos, lecha dodi is done responsively, with the tzibur repeating each stanza. Agreed that it’s a must for the shaliach tzibbur to be aware of what’s commonly done in the shul.August 28, 2023 11:03 am at 11:03 am #2220430Avram in MDParticipant
“who is responsible to get the entire Kehila to join in for the singing of Lecha Dodi. Is it the Baal Tefila or is it each person’s personal responsibility to sing?”
It’s nobody’s responsibility. Singing is nice, but it’s not some sort of requirement.
“The reason why I’m asking you this is because last week I saw three people in my Shul making fun between themselves of the Chazan and his lackluster performance.”
We can hope that, though it looked like they were making fun of him, perhaps they were discussing something else. If they were indeed making fun, it’d probably be better for their olam haba to daven at home. The shaliach tzibbur was appointed by the kehilla to be their representative. It’s a good idea for someone who is well liked and has a sweet voice to be sent to the amud for Shabbos davening, but to make fun of him is lashon hara and public embarrassment.
“As an aside, as one of the Gabbaim of the Minyan I know how many people it took to finally find one person to agree to lead the congregation, our eventual Baal Tefila only went up to the Amud because no one else would.”
Could it be nobody wants to go up because of the mocking? What a shame if so.August 28, 2023 11:03 am at 11:03 am #2220429commonsaychelParticipant
“I was wondering I’m curious”
Why the sky is blue
Why the ocean foams
Why people gas after cholent
Why there is a Candyman in ShulAugust 28, 2023 11:03 am at 11:03 am #2220413DaMosheParticipant
ah yid: There are actually Sefardic communities that have a tune for Lecha Dodi which is hundreds of years old, far older than chassidus.August 28, 2023 11:04 am at 11:04 am #2220460
In the Biala Siddur the Rebbe Z”L says its a mitzvah to sing along so the Chazzan is not embarrassed. ואהבת לרעך כמוךAugust 28, 2023 12:48 pm at 12:48 pm #2220469Sam KleinParticipant
Nothing Hashem created is just coincidence. Everything has a good reason and use for it and this is why a person of true faith and trust in Hashem accepts everything and never had any questions to ask Hashem. Even when things going on around his life sound strange or might not be going exactly as planned. As the famous saying in the Torah says “Vayidom Aharon” there was no questions and it was accepted immediately with complete true faith and love in Hashem our loving father and king of kings even at the expensive price of losing 2 of his precious and priceless children Nadav and Avihu.August 28, 2023 2:13 pm at 2:13 pm #2220535leibyParticipant
I heard in the name of some rebbe that singing along is the mitvah of “azoiv tazoiv imi”August 28, 2023 8:02 pm at 8:02 pm #2220662LerntminTayrahParticipant
First we need to establish if there’s a chiyuv to say lecha dodi before we can establish if there’s a chiyuv to sing for lecha dodi.August 28, 2023 8:12 pm at 8:12 pm #2220700RockyParticipant
Ahhh! Nishtday, you and are the only one who understood my words. You are truly worthy of becoming my talmid. Gadol Hadorah and Ah yid will need to spend more time in hisbodedus until you are ready. Either that or I should choose my words more carefully next time.
Legend has it that the first time someone sang Lecha Dodi in Ner Israel in Baltimore, the mashgiach R. Dovid Kronglass Z”TL (an Alter Mirer) walked out in protest. For those interested I may even hint to you who that baal tefila was.August 29, 2023 9:06 am at 9:06 am #2220730
Karlin Stolin doesn’t sing lecha dodiAugust 29, 2023 9:07 am at 9:07 am #2220731
in Vizhnitz, the Lecha Dodi tune is customarily changed at Vehayu Limshisah, not Lo Saivoshi, as is the minhag elsewhere. I’ve heard that this started when the Vizhnitzer Rebbe moved to Grosswardein after World War I. The shul in Grosswardein was nusach Ashkenaz, and when the Rebbe went to daven from the amud there, they told him that their minhag is to sing Lecha Dodi, which was not done in Vizhnitz until then. So the Rebbe sang. He didn’t change to a more leibedig song for Lo Saivoshi, though, and the crowd only reminded him to do so when he reached Vehayu Limshisah. Nothing happens by chance — and so that became the Vizhnitz minhag.August 29, 2023 9:09 am at 9:09 am #2220738Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipant
> I may even hint to you who that baal tefila was.
singing lecha dodi is not litvish, but so is signing loshon horaAugust 29, 2023 9:20 am at 9:20 am #2220766August 29, 2023 9:22 am at 9:22 am #2220772mobicoParticipant
Did his name start with an “R” and end with a “y”?August 29, 2023 12:55 pm at 12:55 pm #2220885
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