Why are pple voting for Obama

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  • #604848

    Poster
    Member

    I just cannot understand who is voting for Obama?

    #896315

    puppy
    Participant

    My exact sentiments!

    #896316

    akuperma
    Participant

    While I strongly favor the Republicans, one needs to remember that:

    1. While Obama’s economic policy are bad, and in the long run perhaps disasterously so, for the United States as a whole, they are good for most frum Jews. Many frum people, especially Bnei Torah, benefit from Pell grants, WIC, food stamps, SCHIPS, transit subsidies, etc.

    2. While Obama is anti-Israel, somewhat, most frum Jews correctly believe that the survival of the Jewish community in Eretz Yisrael is largely a function of Ha-Shem, not the American government.

    3. While the Democratic party’s support for “gay rights” and “abortion” are clearly against Torah, even for a Ben Noach, it doesn’t affect us. Anyone in our community who wants to be “gay” will already be well “off the derekh”, and not our problem. Few frum women would want an abortion. The truth is that being a parent conveys high status in our community. Childless people are objects of pity. This is the opposite of the secular world. So its hard for us get excited over Obama’s left wing social views (though I’m bothered that his science advisor was in favor of “one child policies” earlier in his career) since they don’t affect us.

    #896317

    Poster
    Member

    He is way ahead in the polls…a/o care to explain?

    #896318

    PBT
    Member

    Because the Democratic Party has become an Avoda Zorah, even when it comes to sympathize with our worst enemies. Why would any Jew vote for Obama? For the same reason that a Jewish girl would lay down in front of a bulldozer and get crushed to death so she could become a martyr.

    #896319

    kingdavid
    Participant

    (1) He has a nice voice (very important when all you do is talk);

    (2) He’s likeable (unless you are in the crosshairs of one of his drone attacks);

    (3) He’ll tax the rich and make those selfish people pay their fair share (until he runs out of other people’s money)

    (4) He needs four more years to…put it all together (because he messed up so badly during the first four years–during his practice round as President).

    #896320

    cherrybim
    Participant

    “Why are pple voting for Obama”

    For the same reason that people jump off bridges.

    #896321

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    People are scared and want to feel safe. They feel safe that someone is promising to pay for their needs.

    #896322

    Poster
    Member

    I want realistic answers! I really can’t understand.

    akuperma, What about the fact that he is spending well beyond and creating debts that can’t be payed?

    Also, what is this talk that he is turning america into a communist country. I hate to sound naiive but he sounds so so bad to me I want to understand WHAT R PPLE THINKING? We have smart pple in the coffeeroom, help me understand!!!!

    #896324

    besalel
    Participant

    i think it come down to this: we american voters have lost all hope in government. we have come to expect that government will tax us too much whether its republican or democrat. we believe they are all selfish and looking out for themselves and their own interests and not ours. we believe that things like the economy and foreign policy are dictated by outside factors like the state department and the treasury. we believe that no matter what the fools on talk radio say there is really not much of a difference between one and the other. So we ALWAYS vote for the person who seems like a nicer guy/better person/more down to earth. That is why we voted clinton twice, bush twice and obama twice. these men have the type of personality we would rather hang out with/have a beer with/go out to dinner with. we simply vote for the better guy like any other popularity contest. romney seems like a fine person but he fails to connect with the average person. no so the president.

    #896325

    WIY
    Member

    Mental illness is increasing at an alarming rate in America.

    #896326

    kfb
    Participant

    Jews are voting for Obama bc they actually think he’s good for Israel. They actually think he is going to fix this economy. Jews have always voted democratic, especially in the 40’s so they could get a Jewish state. I feel ashamed when I hear that %68 of my people will be voting for that man. It’s sad, very sad.

    #896327

    Health
    Participant

    Poster -“Why are pple voting for Obama”

    I was told that many people were asked this question and they answered – “Because he’s my brother.”

    #896328

    Poster
    Member

    Health – ? I don’t get it….

    #896329

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Romney wants to cut social spending, If you are able to work you should work and not accept government assistance.

    What if Romney cut WIC, Section 8, Food Stamps, HEAP, Medicaid, CHiP for Kollelnicks.

    How many people in Kollel would leave if Welfare, WIC, HEAP, Food Stamps, Section 8 , Medicaid etc were cut.

    If the country is bankrupt and in Debt I guess we cant afford these programs to help those in Kollel.

    #896330

    yaakov doe
    Participant

    Probably only because they prefer him to Rom,ney, not that they like him.

    #896331

    MorahRach
    Member

    He is not way ahead in the polls, he has a 5 point lead and that is because the DNC just ended. I mamish can’t understand anyone who would consider voting for him. I know so many frum Jews who are pro Obama it literally makes me perspire and turn red when I think of it. Yes many Jews take gov. benefits I am sure that is a partial reason. It is a silly reason because Romney is not getting rid of benefits, he just wants to tighten the leesh.

    What really irks me is the fact that Obama is clearly so popular among minorities because he is black. This is not me being racist, I am being realistic. Over 90% of AA support Obama. Minorities are usually democratic anyone but this is overwhelming. I remember watching on the news before the last election, the reporter was interviewing random people (mostly African Americans) on the street, asking a few questions about the election. One question was who are you voting for and why. They all said Obama but couldn’t come up with any real reasons as to why. When asked who his running mate was, more than half did not know! I am talking about right before the election. My point is people who normally could not give about policies, campaign, elections etc.. Came out/will come out to vote in his favor because of reverse racism.

    #896332

    uneeq
    Member

    Poster: Almost all of the blacks, around 90% of them, will and have voted for Obama. This is true even though blacks before the NObama elections always voted Republican.

    #896333

    TheGoq
    Participant

    “Over 90% of AA support Obama.”

    But what is the percentage of sober people who support him?

    #896335

    yytz
    Participant

    I would never vote for Obama because of Israel. But it’s easy to understand why so many do vote for him:

    1. 90% of Blacks vote democratic and have for decades; it’s only slightly increased with Obama.

    2. Obama’s Israel policy is bad but it’s not much worse than Bush’s; remember the disastrous Gaza pullout? Wouldn’t have happened without Bush’s imperialistic meddling.

    3. The idea that Democrats are fiscally irresponsible is a myth. Federal spending actually grew more under Bush and Reagan, and Romney’s plans would in fact increase the deficit and take longer to balance the budget than Obama’s plans (because of all Romney’s tax cuts for the wealthiest).

    4. Similarly, the idea that Obama is somehow leading us toward communism is beyond ridiculous. Communism is defined as an authoritarian government with no free elections, government ownership of all media and industry, etc. With the exception of the temporary US/Canadian government majority stake in GM, Obama’s policies have no similarities at all with Communism. Bush spent tons of money on new social programs like Head Start but no one called him a communist. Every other democratic Western country has universal health care that goes way beyond Obamacare — that’s not communism, any more than the fact that the Post Office is owned by the government is communism.

    5. Misguided economic policies have bankrupted much of the middle class, such that the benefits of economic growth go to the rich but not the other 90%, whose wages stagnate or fall (see the book Winner Take All Politics). Romney’s policies will only make this worse, while Obama’s have some chance of making the middle class better off.

    6. Judaism places abortion decision-making with rabbis, not the government. If pro-life legislation was passed it could interfere with this. I’m sympathetic to pro-lifers but an actual ban on all abortion would be against halacha.

    #896336

    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    Paul Ryan wants to cut off all funding to Yeshivos and Kollel Yungerlight. Romney would go along and cut much funding as well. The Gedolim in EY have paskened we should fight this in EY, and Hu HaDin in America.

    I don’t see why vote for Obama as the question, I see the question as how can any Torah Yid who follows the Gedolim vote for Romney!!! There is a chiyuv (as per the Gedolei Eretz Yisroel) to vote for Pres. Obama, so that funding for Talmidei Chachamim & Kollel guys will not be cut off.

    #896337

    iak
    Member

    It’s clear. People are voting for Obama because they are blinded by this fool. He is a great speaker, says great things to the poor, and basically attacks attacks and attacks the GOP. Three things we do know:

    1) He will drive our debt so high that we will look like Greece in no time.

    2) He is no friend of Israel’s. Now I know Kollel people need money but as someone who has family in Israel you do not ant that backstabbing, two faced “President” at the helm. No saying Romney will be better, but when something is broken you should try to fix it.

    3) Same as three but he befriends muslim and arab nations. He has a foreign policy that is ruining America as a respectable country. He lowers America’s stature.

    All is in the hands of Gd, however we should realize this man dangerous.

    #896338

    yytz
    Participant

    Something else to think about:

    Humility is the among the highest of all virtues. The polarized American political discourse systematically encourages us abandon humility and arrogantly judge and attack those who disagree with us on our party of choice or political opinion. It also encourages us to hate our brothers in our hearts — and that’s an aveira. The left and right are equally guilty of it.

    Of course, we should be informed about political issues and seek to apply reason, evidence and Torah perspectives to politics. But we should do so humbly, calmly, patiently and without doing anything to shame anyone else or hurt people’s feelings. If we can’t do that, we shouldn’t talk about politics at all. It’s much better to be completely ignorant about politics and be kind and respectful to everyone than to vote for the “right” party but treat people poorly, commit aveiras and foster negative middos.

    All the ideologies in contemporary politics — Liberal, Conservative, Libertarian, Green, Settlers, anti-Zionists, etc. — are compelling to a lot of intelligent people. People tend to be fooled by the falsehood that surrounds them, and we should respect and have compassion even on people with bizarre or false ideas (while responding to them appropriately). We shouldn’t identify too strongly with any party or ideology because none of them are perfectly compatible with Torah. Complete identification leads to arrogance, overconfidence and unwillingness to learn from every person (see Avos) and objectively evaluate evidence.

    #896339

    iak
    Member

    Obama: ‘No single event can ever destroy who we are’…unless you are re-elected.

    #896341

    akuperma
    Participant

    Poster (who asked: What about the fact that he is spending well beyond and creating debts that can’t be payed?

    Also, what is this talk that he is turning america into a communist country). Many people spend well beyond their means and create unpayable debts. Jewish communities historically did so. Yes, it may bankrupt the country in 10 years, but at least my kid will get fed, my road will be paved, etc. Remember the story of the the fool offering to teach the king’s dog to talk. Most Yidden deal with the most immediate problem.

    Obama would hardly qualify as a communist. He’s pro-gay, all for the “crony” version of capitalism (why do you thinks the bankers supported him in 2008), etc. He’s basically a typical “Jewish” liberal in temrs of positions on all issues, which is probably why he has overhwhelming support from the non-frum Jews. Given tht communism finally disappeared over 20 years ago, those who accuse him of being a communist are probably too young to have ever met a real communist (they really should have saved a few to put in museums).

    #896342

    rabbiofberlin
    Participant

    The most ridiculous comment comes from “gavra at work” .A “psak Din” to vote for Obama????? Are you hallucinating?? Plus, Romney never said he would cut all program-another lie by the democrats.

    #896343

    yytz
    Participant

    Rabbiofberlin: Romney’s plans are not very specific but he has said he is going to cut $7 trillion in spending, which goes even farther than Ryan’s plans. Policy analysts looking at these proposals conclude that, given Romney’s statements about what he would and wouldn’t cut, millions of people would have to lose Medicare and Food Stamp benefits (among many other programs for the poor) to achieve that level of cuts. All current Republican budgetary plans (including Ryan’s) include massive cuts to programs for the poor and equally massive tax cuts for the highest earners. That’s just the reality in Washington right now.

    I would agree a psak din to vote for Obama is out of the question, but consider than in Israel, all of the religious parties in Israel (both charedi and dati leumi) support a strong safety net and oppose cuts. It’s too bad we don’t have a party in the US that is conservative on social and cultural issues but more liberal on economic policy. In my opinion, the government’s biggest economic priority should be making sure people can make ends meet while working part-time (so we can finally fulfill Avos 2:2), without getting fired for insisting on part-time work (as in the Netherlands where there’s a right to work part time and get full benefits). Unfortunately that isn’t on any party’s agenda.

    #896344

    MorahRach
    Member

    This will probably come out wrong but, why should America suffer for another 4 years ( America- home to millions of people besides Jews) so that People in kollel can continue to learn without earning an income!

    #896345

    TheReader
    Participant

    gavra-at-work: It is time to remember that O doesn’t give us anything!

    Hashem does …

    O must go!!

    #896346

    I agree with rabbiofberlin. The comment from “gavra at work” is absurd. One can not take Tzdeka to learn Torah beacause he is poor, only if the giver wants him to explicitly learn( Chaim Volozhner). Certainly most of the government programs are intended for destitute people not for those who don’t want to work. Anyway what real Ben Torah wants Goish charity and for that matter money from the Medina in Israel.

    #896347

    interjection
    Participant

    “There is a chiyuv (as per the Gedolei Eretz Yisroel) to vote for Pres. Obama, so that funding for Talmidei Chachamim & Kollel guys will not be cut off.”

    The Gedolim expect us to do our part to ensure we keep this sonei yisroel as our leader because apparently God has decided that the only source of funding for our Kollelim and Talmidei Chachamim is through Obama.

    #896348

    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    The most ridiculous comment comes from “gavra at work” .A “psak Din” to vote for Obama????? Are you hallucinating?? Plus, Romney never said he would cut all program-another lie by the democrats.

    gavra-at-work: It is time to remember that O doesn’t give us anything!

    Hashem does …

    O must go!!

    I agree with rabbiofberlin. The comment from “gavra at work” is absurd.

    The Gedolim expect us to do our part to ensure we keep this sonei yisroel as our leader because apparently God has decided that the only source of funding for our Kollelim and Talmidei Chachamim is through Obama.

    Now that you all agree, why do the gedolim in EY always base their vote on funding? Why are they so worried that funding will be cut off by the government, to the point where staying or leaving depends only on the almighty Shekel!!!

    Now, if you all got off your idealist podium, you would realize that dollars are more important than social issues. You would understand the Gedolim of our times. The ends of Dollars and Kollel outweigh the means of staying or leaving the government, as well as voting for someone who will allow Toeivah marriage (R”L). The Gedolim of last generation, including Rav Miller, predicted this would happen if the men would not work. And it did.

    Shoin.

    #896349

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Its interesting people belive that Obama will sell out Israel and dont belive that Romney will cut government programs.

    The reality is no matter how much Obama doesnt like Israel, his fellow democrats will not sell out Israel. However Romney’s fellow republicans follow the creed of the Protestant Work Ethic which means no work, no food. They WILL cut program especially now since they are complaining about the debt. And able boodied Kollel guys are prime targets for cuts.

    #896350

    agittayid
    Participant

    Being dependent on the government leaves one susceptible to being manipulated by the government. A large part of President Obama’s constituency is people dependent on government entitlements. Being self-sufficient allows one to vote for the best interests of the country and not just to protect one’s stipend.

    #896351

    Shopping613 🌠
    Participant

    Sorry mods! Let me rephrase my first post in a nicer way:

    Half the people who voted for him are African amercians…..

    Does that make you feel better? To call them African Americans?

    ?ns ?o suo?????do ?o p??? pu? ‘??p???? ‘??puno? ???

    (319bu?ddo?s) 319[$]

    [$]613 (Shopping613)

    The Founder, Awarder, and Head of Operations of SUC

    #896352

    oomis
    Participant

    GAW, every time I see a frum Jew who thinks that Obama is the best thing since…well.. white bread (sorry about that), I am shocked. I don’t know what Romney will do or not do, but I DO knwo what our present leader has done, and I do not want fou r more years of THAT. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. The man is arrogant, cold, and a phony. He is a charming snake oil salesman and nothing more. When he could have shown real leadership, he showed instead, his true colors. And they were neither black nor white, but yellow. he has no courage of true conviction, but waits to see which way the wind is blowing. His trackr ecord on Israel and blatant and extremely offensive disrespect of PM Netanyahu, shows him for what he is: a spineless, non-leader who will kowtow to the Islamic world, until there is ONLY an Islamic world in this country. That may be exactly what Hashem wants – I don’t know and neither does any of us, but Obama cannot remain in office. It will destroy this country. Wow – this is why I never talk politics with anyone.

    And btw, tough as it is to think, we should not be voting for a president based on what he will give to Kollel yungerleit.

    #896353

    repharim
    Member

    Meh, I learned that leaders of countries have no free will when it comes to making decisions for the country. So frankly, obama or romney, same thing. In the end they will make the choices that Hashem wants them to make. If he wants the president to have another holocaust – in america (god forbid), doesn’t matter who the presidernt is, it will happen. If we’re good it doesn’t matter how bad the president is, he’ll protect us.

    #896354

    DovidM
    Member

    As Jews, we don’t see our vote as that significant on the national scale. The number of Jews in the US is less than the population of Massachusetts.

    If I am running for office, and I know that a group will usually vote for my party or against my party 9 times out of 10 no matter what I say or do, then I will take for granted that a certain number of votes are either coming my way or going to my opponent. Our mistake is to hand the Dems a blank check without getting much in return.

    I don’t think that people expect “moral leadership” from goyish politicians. We have our rebbeim, and we don’t expect a politician to be cut from the same cloth.

    #896355

    far east
    Member

    first of all no intelligent person says obamas a communist, they say hes a socialist. which is where he wants to take the country. Hes pro taking from the rich and helping the poor. While this sounds like a nice idea, it can have detrimental consequences on the economy. His obamacare HURTS small business owners by forcing them to pay more for their employees, thus making it harder for them to A) be successful and B) create jobs which is exactly what economies need to thrive.

    Its simple really, Obama wants to relieve peoples short-term struggles by giving them what they need for free. However long-term this will hurt the country because we wont be able to maintain these social programs. It already is hurting us were 16 Trillion in debt. We simply cant afford all these welfare programs. As much as i would love to ask the government to support yeshivas and kollels, we cant afford it.

    And thats not even getting to the moral problem of forcing the wealthy class to pay for benefits that wont go to them.

    #896356

    Curiosity
    Participant

    Now, if you all got off your idealist podium, you would realize that dollars are more important than social issues. You would understand the Gedolim of our times. The ends of Dollars and Kollel outweigh the means of staying or leaving the government, as well as voting for someone who will allow Toeivah marriage (R”L).

    NO Shaychus!! Israel’s political system is completely different. In Israel the Gedolim have their own political parties, but in order to have any sort of say in the government they have to make coalitions with other parties. They don’t tell people to vote for Netanyahu, they tell people to vote for Shas, and Shas joins Netanyahu because the Leftists are Ochrei Yisrael. You can’t make a limud from the Israeli Parliament system to American 2-party politics. There’s not an ounce of sense to what you are saying, and you really should refrain from putting your own words in the mouths of Gedolim.

    #896357

    MorahRach
    Member

    A very large portion of his supporters are dependent on various government programs, benefits etc. this is why we need more JOBS, not more money poured into Medicaid and foot stamps. Ofcourse you will always have people who don’t want to work or even try to be sel sufficient, but nothing we do will ever change that.

    #896358

    Health
    Participant

    Poster -“Health – ? I don’t get it..”

    Probably because you didn’t grow up in the ‘hood like I did.

    #896360

    yehudayona
    Participant

    uneeq has a unique perspective, saying that before the last election blacks voted Republican. Maybe if you go back to the 1870’s, but not in the 20th century and certainly not in the 21st.

    I heard an interesting perspective on entitlements a few days ago. Virtually everyone is on the dole in some sense, if you consider things like tax deductions. It’s very hard to reform entitlements because people aren’t willing to sacrifice their particular benefit. Most people don’t trust government to be fair, so they think that they’ll have to make sacrifices while better-connected people won’t.

    I think the reason Obama is doing so well in the polls in because Romney is a weak candidate running a weak campaign. His missteps are legion, from not adequately answering the vulture capitalist charges to not releasing his tax returns to criticizing Obama’s response to the murder of the ambassador to Libya.

    #896361

    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    Curiosity: except when the Gedolim tell the people to vote directly for PM (which was the law about 10 years ago), and when the Gedolim have their parties join the left/center (wasn’t so long ago) on the condition that funds would be distributed to Yeshivos (Barak Goverment of ’99, Rabin in ’93, Peres in ’84). Granted it hasn’t happened more recntly, but that is more due to the anti-religious nature of the left (the real leftist parties refuse to allow UTJ in) than the unwillingness of UTJ.

    If you don’t want to admit it, I’ll live. But that is the name of the game in Israel, and it is all under the direction of the Gedolim.

    #896362

    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    oomis1105:

    I do NOT think Obama is the best thing since sliced bread (perhaps since Al Gore invented the internet :-). I’m just pointing out what the Gedolim in Eretz Yisroel would say to do, based on the facts. I would then not follow them, just like I wouldn’t follow them in Eretz Yisroel, and just like most of Lakewood voted for Christie over Corzine even though the Kotler family & Roshei Yeshiva endorsed Corzine.

    We are not monolithic, nor are we stupid. Many of us are not sheep either. Kollels will be supported with or without the government, as Parnassah is from the Ribbono Shel Olam. Hashem will place His ideas in the mind of our leaders either way. The only thing we can do is be Mekadesh Shem Shomayim by saying those who are creating a world that is full of Zima are unacceptable to Yidden.

    #896363

    shein
    Member

    There is no difference between the “right-wing”/Likud and the “left-wing”/Labor parties in Israel on social issues, as far as the Torah community is concerned. They are both the same junk.

    #896364

    Health
    Participant

    yytz -“1. 90% of Blacks vote democratic and have for decades; it’s only slightly increased with Obama.”

    More nonsense from the liberal left. Minorities always have voted Dem, but they always had low turnout. All of a sudden they came in droves for Obama. Perhaps you can explain why?!?!

    But you really don’t have to because I know the reason already.

    #896365

    Finala
    Member

    I’m surprised to see people who would vote for Obama, simply in order to get government benefits so they can continue to learn in kollel instead of working. You should realize that the money you receive is from Hashem. Hashem determines how much money you’re going to get each year, no matter what you do to try to get it (whether it is working at a job, government assistance, gambling, or the lottery). Meaning that, whoever you vote for, you will still get however much money Hashem wants you to get, in order to help you continue learning. If the benefits that you’re getting from the government do get cut, you need to have bitachon in Hashem that the government support you are lacking will end up coming from somewhere else. If Hashem wants you to not get as much money as you did the year before, Obama getting elected will not change that. Your wife might, Chas V’shalom, lose her job. Don’t assume that if Obama gets elected, you will be safe from losing the money that enables you to raise a family and learn in Kollel all day long. As the famous saying goes…Man plans and G-d laughs.

    #896366

    gavra_at_work
    Participant
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