November 25, 2018 9:07 pm at 9:07 pm #1630334
Why are Torah observant Jews overwhelmingly Republican/conservative while Jews who are non-Torah observant are overwhelmingly Democrat/liberals?
And the same principal tends to hold in other countries with their respective equivalent parties/ideologies.
Note the vote results in overwhelmingly Orthodox Jewish voting precincts in New York City, Monsey and Lakewood for presidential and congressional elections.November 26, 2018 12:58 am at 12:58 am #1630368
Are you serious or just trollingNovember 26, 2018 12:59 am at 12:59 am #1630373
1- Religious realize that Democrats are one big fat evil lie. In the first place when they are the ones who wanted the slave trade reestablished, fought a civil war to keep slavery, established KKK,Jim Crow and host of other prejudicial laws, to suddenly brand themselves as liberals is just way beyond the pale. The cronyism, socialism, hatred of Israel and simply idiotic policies further make them an evil entity.
2- Irreligious or better said, not yet religious Jews, want to be as American as possible. Although conservatives constantly stress that they are following the true American ideals, they have not yet succeeded in getting that across to the younger generation. You are more hip, cool and Hollywood-like if you are Democrat. The Zeitgeist rules by irreligious, hence the Democratic party rules as well.November 26, 2018 3:46 am at 3:46 am #1630406
I guess with a few exceptions, we apikorsim. find that there are fewer trolling, lying and misogynistic yidden among those residing in districts that vote for Dems.November 26, 2018 3:54 am at 3:54 am #1630419
I would add that the Democrats are not content to trample on traditional values themselves but want to force everyone else to do so. Hillary said this explicitly shortly before the election. Even the Washington Post called her statement an attack on freedom of religion. On the other hand, Republicans and conservatives want to uphold these values, which are common to Jews and Xtians. IMHO this trend will continue as radical leftists take control of the Democratic party .November 26, 2018 7:50 am at 7:50 am #1630462
Because over the last 50 years the Democrats have become increasingly anti-religious, while the Republicans are increasingly welcoming to peoples of all religions. If the Democrats regard people who “clink to religion” to be “deplorables” (taking the words of their most recent national candidates, in context), don’t be shocked that the Democrats have problem attracting non-secular voters. Fifty years ago this was not the case.November 26, 2018 8:40 am at 8:40 am #1630489
I’m sure KJ voted for the yammi-bopping Cuomo who was treated to a bowl of fresh peaches & Chiquita bananas.
Same in Skver who oodled and canoodled with Hillary…
Depends where.November 26, 2018 9:29 am at 9:29 am #1630510
KJ voted for Trump.November 26, 2018 9:39 am at 9:39 am #1630526
You can be an observant Jew and do like Rabbi Meir where you eat the good and throw away the bad by voting Democrat caring for the workers, middle class and poor.November 26, 2018 9:54 am at 9:54 am #1630534
Democrats do not care for the workers, middle class and poor. Certainly no more than Republicans. Democrats policies have hurt the workers, middle class and poor by keeping them poor.November 26, 2018 9:55 am at 9:55 am #1630554
Because Orthodox Jewish women are feminists, and the Democratic Party doesn’t believe in a woman’s right to choose her own political affiliation and is therefore not feminist enough.November 26, 2018 10:29 am at 10:29 am #1630594
Joseph, it has been said that Republicans hate the poor and don’t want to help them, but Democrats love the poor so much, they want to keep them poor forever.November 26, 2018 10:31 am at 10:31 am #1630604
You guys know full and well that “deplorables” referred to people who are either white supremacists or were okay with Trump’s improper actions, not religious people.November 26, 2018 10:32 am at 10:32 am #1630587
Its because as people get “more religous” they tend to be more black and white. we have trouble seeing the gray .
I’ll give you an example.
I concede that for Israel Trump is better than Hillary would have been. but I add that I don’t think Hillary would have been HORRIBLE it wouldn’t have meant the end of Israel, and there are other factors that matter too.
The response I usually get to he above is not disagreement with the actual sentiment expressed rather something along the lines of “Oh so you hate Israel” or “Oh so Israel is not important”
Its a lot easier to say “well Trump is better for ISrael therefore anyone who is not Trump is an evil antisemite who wants to kill all Jews”, than to take a more nuanced approach .
A secondary reason is we as a community suffer very much from groupthinkNovember 26, 2018 12:38 pm at 12:38 pm #1630632
Joseph, according to you, we should not give charity because the Jews will rely on it and not look for work and stay poor.November 26, 2018 12:47 pm at 12:47 pm #1630638
RebYidd23: We are deplorables. We cling to religion. Your comment reminds one of the famous line of a German who said at first they he didn’t object when they came for Jews since he wasn’t a Jew, and ends with him stating that when they came for him, there was no one left to object.
Our views on a wide variety of matters are totally incorrect by the left-wing (Democratic party, circa 2018) standard of political correctness. We reject that which “normal” people consider to be beyond question. Even if in economic matters we are closer to the Democrats (and we love entitlements, in fact, we invented them and the Democrats got the idea from us), the attack on halacha is a “game changer.” We could never tolerate a demand the synagogs not differentiate on the basis of gender, or that opposition to non-maritial sexual activites is equivalant to support racism (and thus a basis to close schools or deny tax exemption to institutions). We could never tolerate any restriction on bris milah. Our only hope for surviving in the United States, is that the Republicans so soundly crush the Democrats that the Democrats move away from their fanatical ultra-secular political correctness, and return to the “big tent” welcoming all minorities, including people like us, and including all religions, as was the case as little as a generation ago.November 26, 2018 12:50 pm at 12:50 pm #1630654
So Trump is the uber-Ohev Yisroel (because he put up a sign outside a U.S. counsel office in Yerushalayim that says “Embassy”, claims he “built” the Embassy for a cost of $1 billion less than “everyone said it would cost’ and invited a bunch of Evangelical galachim to “bless” the sign…..and some rabbonim in in BP, Willy, Monsey and LW “instruct” their mindless sheeplach to VOTE for R’s w/o considering the candidates or the issue and making an informed judgement. Yup, great reasons to support the former Republican party now the Trumpkopf version of “nationalist” (aka racist, white supremacist, misogynistic) Party. Our Troll in Residence is shepping naches from being among the first to climb on board the Trumptrain before it was fashionableNovember 26, 2018 12:52 pm at 12:52 pm #1630674
1. Democrat Party embraces Islam and is Anti Israel and is pro BDS movement.
2. Democrat Party is ANTI RELIGION and uses the LGBQT Agenda to persecute Religion.
In England the Leftists are using LGBQT as excuse to shut down yeshivas and beis yakovs.
And this is what Leftist Democrats want to do here.
3. Democrats are Pro Socialism which brings Tyranny, Persecution of Religion and Poverty.November 26, 2018 12:53 pm at 12:53 pm #1630676
Ain’t much of a choice
Since we are of the persuasion That there is a purpose To this world
Silly op-ed questionNovember 26, 2018 12:53 pm at 12:53 pm #1630667
Because on the surface it seems as if Republican and conservative values align more with Torah values than Democratic and liberal ones.
In reality, they are all apikorsim whose only values lie in tayva. Look at the Great and Might Trump, for example. Is this menuval really supposed to be the pinnacle of what a Jew should vote for just because he made some token gestures about Israel? Also I find it extremely ironic that those who benefit the most from liberal social programs like Medicare, FAFSA, Section 8, and WIC are the ones that vote overwhelmingly Republican.
Democrats are bad. Republicans are bad. As a klal we need to start looking more objectively at politics and decide to support those that are slightly less damaging in their policies.November 26, 2018 12:54 pm at 12:54 pm #1630679
“caring for” Is Worthy for a means But that’s where it stops
Eastern peoples are”caring”too
comm.November 26, 2018 12:56 pm at 12:56 pm #1630687
ubiquitin: Thus you believe that secular people, irreligious people and Reform/Conservative Jews are better, overall, than Orthodox/Torah Jews on being more nuanced, seeing gray rather than black and white and not suffering from groupthink.
And with that secular people, irreligious people and Reform/Conservative Jews overall make better political choices than Orthodox/Torah Jews, since Orthodox/Torah Jews missed the boat by not seeing that Democrats and liberals are better than Republicans and conservatives.
Right?November 26, 2018 1:24 pm at 1:24 pm #1630728
“First they came for the white nationalists, and I did not speak out-
Because I was not a white nationalist.
Then they came for the rapists, and I did not speak out-
Because I was not a rapist.”
That’s not how I remember it, Akuperma.November 26, 2018 1:33 pm at 1:33 pm #1630735
Yes agree 99.9%
Though a few quick points
– emphasis on “Overall”
– and I’m going with your definition of “Orthodox/Torah Jews” which is a bit narrower than mine – (yet another example of the black/white thinking you suffer from )
– “since Orthodox/Torah Jews missed the boat by not seeing that Democrats and liberals are better than Republicans and conservatives.” – I didnt quite say this last part. I have no problem with a person thinking Trump is better because xyz. Its the narrow thoughtless parroting that bothers me. As in the example I cited.
– Make no mistake many Democrat supporters suffer from the same narrow goupthink. and label anyone who votes for another party as automatically evil/misogynist/racist etc . but a. that wasn’t your question, b. I hang out more with the group you asked about so I am more familiar with that group
My point is similar to Yesrbiu’s aboveNovember 26, 2018 1:48 pm at 1:48 pm #1630751
For the urban Northeast it largely seems to be that way Still the statement is a stretch
The majority of people act inappropriately ?yes
Do they realign the whole world to fit with their indiscretions,promote, and flaunt it ?!
Or do they prefer to realign their indiscretions or at least their childrens for a better world?
As the old french proverb goes
” hypocrisy is the tribute that Vice pays to virtue”November 26, 2018 2:38 pm at 2:38 pm #1630783
The little I knowParticipant
I have no problem disagreeing with you. But your last comment was close to brainless.
Trump proved to be an Oheiv Yisroel by being the first to recognize that what the Islamists and Palis are doing is terror (not protest). he also stopped apologizing for American support for Israel, and he cut the stupid funding that empowered and and financed terror. The Embassy issue was symbolic.
Your perception of rabbonim instructing mindless people to vote Republican speaks very poorly for your intellect.
You also parrot the baloney that the MSM (y”sh) have fabricated and repeated often enough to have you sing their jingle. Actually, Pelosi disclosed that strategy a while ago, and the clip has circulated widely. That method makes people believe foolishness enough to vote with their feet, while brains are completely disengaged. There has not been a single thing to date that documents or supports any identification of Trump as racist, supremacist, misogynist, etc. That is a concoction of the left, and their politicians and media continue to sing it. It is sad that this cannot be prosecuted in court as defamatory.
Meanwhile, the present Democrats, almost unanimously, support every form of immorality, in violation of most standards that were part of the formation of USA. their version of democracy is frightfully poor at anything that varies much from socialism. It is true that many of the local elected officials that befriend the Jewish community in NY are officially Democrats. But at the federal level, we have never encountered a party in USA that is as opposite to our values and ways of life.
I wish you happiness and success, though at the complete exclusion of what would support your political obsessions. I also wish the Dems a complete mapoloh.November 26, 2018 3:02 pm at 3:02 pm #1630795
@It is Time for Truth
Can you stop with the big words and hidden meanings and just come out and say it? You vote Republican because they are opposed to gay marriage.
Fine. But you know what? It’s happening whether we like it or not and there’s nothing we can do to stop it. So maybe we can stop pretending that Republicans have some sort of imaginary moral high-ground and look at actual issues that actually affect us as opposed to an inevitable change that has literally nothing to do with frum society.
Do they realign the whole world to fit with their indiscretions,promote, and flaunt it ?!
We are talking about Trump, yes? Because that describes Trump to a “T”. How many wives has he had so far? How did he pick them? What has he been accused of spending a lot of time, effort, and money covering up?November 26, 2018 3:10 pm at 3:10 pm #1630799
RebYidd23: You identify with white nationalists and rapists??? Most of us identify with people raising families (man, woman, and their children), trying to support themselves, trying to raise the families in their own cultgural and religious traditions. And these are the people that the Democrats consider to be deplorables clinging to outmoded religious ideas.November 26, 2018 3:42 pm at 3:42 pm #1630812
If anyone needs an example of what I mean here it is :
“There has not been a single thing to date that documents or supports any identification of Trump as …, misogynist,”
now as I said I get saying that “although Trump is a misogynist he is good for Israel…” or .”… will appoint conservative justices…” but here you have someone saying that he isnt a misogynist. not only that but that “there has not been a single thing… to support that claim”
So either he never heard of the access hollywood tape (as many in our community haven’t as understandably it wasnt reported in our press)
Or they shut it out of their minds since he “proved to be an Oheiv Yisroel” so he cant be bad in any way
I cant think of any other explanation for that statement.November 26, 2018 6:09 pm at 6:09 pm #1630850
Akuperma, Hillary associates Trump supporters with white nationalists and rapists, hence “deplorable”.November 26, 2018 6:26 pm at 6:26 pm #1630903
Joseph I have a feeling (and I get this feeling often when you so questions) that you already have some ideas and answers to your question. Why do you think the answer is? And also is there something about the fact surprise you? And if so why?November 26, 2018 9:01 pm at 9:01 pm #1630916
If it is a question of taking away religious liberties I would be afraid of the Republicans who are too fanatic in their religious beliefs. Democrats say live and let live.November 26, 2018 9:05 pm at 9:05 pm #1630960
Welcome back, JJ. My primary thought is to say that I have much more confidence in Bnei Torah and frum Yidden than in Mechallelei Shabbos, seculars, irreligious, Reform and Conservatives. If the former is overwhelmingly doing one thing while the latter is overwhelmingly doing the opposite, I have full confidence in the way the Torah world is acting versus the others.November 26, 2018 9:54 pm at 9:54 pm #1630998
Today’s Democrat Party does NOT “live and let live”. That would be the Republican Party.
Today’s Democrat Party says if you don’t want to service homosexual weddings we will persecute you
and bankrupt you.
Today’s Democrat Party says if you are opposed to homosexuality and transgender you are a “Hater”
Today’s Democrat party says if you “misgender” someone (call a man…a man) you should GO TO JAIL!
This is an actual law proposed by Democrats.
Today’s Democrats use violence to silence all opposition and is ANTI FREE SPEECH and ANTI FREEDOM OF RELIGION. And ANTI ISRAEL. Don’t know how any frum Jew can vote Democrat for National Office.November 26, 2018 10:19 pm at 10:19 pm #1631008
It says that it is better to be a gazlon than a ganov. A gazlon is not afraid from anyone whereas the ganov is afraid of people but not from Hashem. The Democrats tolerate everyone, so they tolerate Jews also.November 26, 2018 10:27 pm at 10:27 pm #1631032
For some reason, you don’t want to face the fact that elements in the Dem Party gazled and ganved and hijacked the party from what it once was, right under your nose.November 26, 2018 10:43 pm at 10:43 pm #1631046
ZionGate, i don’t know what you are telling me when I gave you simple logic. How are the Republicans better?November 27, 2018 6:48 am at 6:48 am #1631057
It’s really very simple. For the unaffiliated Jew, their last remaining connection to Judaism is events like the Passover Seder. And they take very seriously what they read in the Haggadah, where it instructs them to Lean to the Left.November 27, 2018 6:54 am at 6:54 am #1631070
The Democrats tolerate everyone, so they tolerate Jews also.
Tell that to the liberal college campus that is pro BDS and anti conservativesNovember 27, 2018 6:55 am at 6:55 am #1631071
The Democrats and the Republicans are very, very bad, but the correct way to choose a party is to determine which one is worse, and join that one.November 27, 2018 6:56 am at 6:56 am #1631072
Laskern, they tolerate Jews but not Judaism. In fact, they are enablers of campus hooligans who also do not tolerate Jews. Not to mention now having two supporters of terrorism in the House and another member who is clueless about the Middle East and a few other issues. These three stooges are the future of the Democratic party.November 27, 2018 7:00 am at 7:00 am #1631076
Laskern, ZionGate is right, You are referring to the Democrats of old. Today’s young democrats are quite different from the party that you know and prefer. They are tolerant of everyone except for those that don’t agree with them- and that includes the Religious Jews and Christians. Our fears that one day we will have to worry about legislation against Bris Mila and Shechita, or a mandatory school curriculum that conforms to liberal ideals, stems from the Democrats. And, by the way, they are increasingly becoming the party of the wealthy.
I don’t think you can see either party cares more about people than the other. Mostly, they want to get elected and their promises reflect that. Their approaches are different. Democrats believe in feel-good policies, and spending a lot of money to accomplish these policies. Republicans rather let the people keep more of their salaries and spend it as they need/wish. For example, raise the minimum wage- sounds great, why shouldn’t the poor earn more? But they ignore potential long term effects like small/mid-size businesses not being able to afford to pay more, having to close or fire workers. When Republicans fight this policy it is not because they don’t care about the poor person, but because they are looking at the long-term effect differently than the Democrats. Free college for all. Great idea. But Republicans understand that that will cost money, will have to raise taxes to cover it, and education standards will drop. Welfare, public housing and other policies that benefit the poor- again, sounds great. But the reality is that these policies do nothing to get people out of poverty. Policies that cut taxes and create jobs will do more for the poor. So it is not that the democrats are more caring than the Republicans, they just have a different view on economics than the Republicans.November 27, 2018 7:06 am at 7:06 am #1631103
Posters above gave you good answers.
But in short……. Dems today want a pound of your flesh; yiur taxes, your morals, your values…. Want to tell you how to think, talk, walk & what to eat… Read the book 1984 and you’ll understand how scary the Dems are starting to resemble this insane society…November 27, 2018 7:13 am at 7:13 am #1631120
All politics is local.
People affiliate with a party based on how it affects their daily life where they live, they don’t affiliate based on national platforms.
The national Republican Party is the antipathy of Family Values. It ran a thrice married serial adulterer for President in opposition to a woman who was the victim of a husband who committed adultery.
Thrice married adulterous white males are common in the Republican leadership, need I mention Mayor Juliani, now personal lawyer for Trump, or Speaker Gingrich?
The Democrats brought us Social Security, Medicare and the Affordable Care Act and booming economies under the Roosevelt, Clinton and Obama administrations.
The Republicans brought us the Great Depression of Herbert Hoover, the runaway inflation and 20% interest rates of George HW Bush, the banking crisis and economic collapse of 2008 of George W Bush and have made us the laughing stock of the world and sold out to the Russians, Saudis and Germans by Trump.
Not all frum Yidden are blind and deaf, we refuse to belong or support the party that brought us Trump, Ryan and McConnell.
I’ll not be answering individual posters in this thread, but could not let it go on the way Joseph, the troll, framed it. Enjoy your conversation.November 27, 2018 7:49 am at 7:49 am #1631153
What CTLAwyer neglects to tell you is that Trump adulterized as a Dem…. that Dems INSIST that you allow every gender into your toilet…. That however their personal lives, Repubs don’t legislate that to you and me, Dems do….. That Dem/ media has lowered the bar on polite talk on radio/ tv/ movies….. That one can’t even listen to a sports station on radio without being blindsided by filthy language, ad hominum attacks on values….That Dems support this obscenity… That schools and academia have become cesspools of immoralty, censorship, revision of American history… That Dems/ media are offending religious people, whom Yidlibs are frightened if, every day.. That Dems want to legislate our very lives…
That TDS folks are insanely obsessed with Trump’s past but pushing for same sex marriage and suing bakers to bake them pies against their beliefs… That the Dems are the party of Big Brother, that scary insane society to which we’re drifting..
editedNovember 27, 2018 7:50 am at 7:50 am #1631158November 27, 2018 7:52 am at 7:52 am #1631156
CTL, i was wondering what was taking you so long.
1, The woman in question is his partner in crime – and defended him against very serious charges in this area). She also declared war on traditional religion. A man, BTW, is only an adulterer if his friend (I want this to pass moderation) is a married woman. If she is not Jewish she is not married once she walks out even if there has not yet been a court decree. There is no prohibition for a ben Noach to act like a rooster. I will admit though that I would have preferred Ted Cruz (and voted for him in the primary) but, as we say in Israel, zeh ma sheyeish.
2. Social Security is almost bankrupt because of Democratic largesse. The booming economy of FDR (who interned innocent Japanese, German and Italian Americans against the opinion of none other than J. Edgar Hoover thus freeing up a few hundred thousand jobs) did not start until the US went into a wartime economy.
3. Giuliani (please at least spell his name correctly) is not a typical Republican although he did a great job putting NYC on its feet and bringing crime way down).
4. Saudi Arabia is a bulwark against Iran. Churchill (if I were Scott Kelly I would have told the PC police that if they don’t like what I said they can lump it) said about supporting Stalinj ym”s “If Hitler invaded hell I would make at least a favorable reference to the devil in the House of Commons.”
5. Democratic judges (yes, judges have political viewpoints) would have trampled freedom of religion and speech.November 27, 2018 8:18 am at 8:18 am #1631163
CTL, you are so blind. You forgot about serial adulterers like JFK, LBJ and Clinton. Hillary was not a victim, but an enabler. She recently blamed Lewinsky. Roosevelt would not allow the Jews on the St Louis to enter the country , and refused to bomb the railroad to Auschwitz. Roosevelt didn’t solve the Depression, WW2 did. Obama’s booming economy? He claimed our economy could never grow more than 2%.
What about Obama’s long time attendance at the church of an antisemitic minister or his photograph embracing Farrakhan? Or his interference in Israel’s last election by supporting Netanyahu’s opponent? What about the Democratic sellout of black and Hispanic kids?
They are so beholden to the teachers union that they fight against charter schools that actually work and keep kids trapped in failing public schools. What about his Iran multimillion giveaway that he lied about? Were you able to keep your doctor and plan under Obamacare?November 27, 2018 8:32 am at 8:32 am #1631167
Those who don’t see how Dems have changed, remind me of those who still wear these wide tie clips, call a pharmacy a ‘drug store’ ( me too, lol) wear Keds sneakers, call a song a ‘number’, spell out doughnuts, for the newly modernized donuts, call a podiatrist a chiropodist, and drive cars with clutches….lolNovember 27, 2018 8:32 am at 8:32 am #1631164
Extremes are no good in any group. The difference between a tzelem and the magen david is that the former has only extremes whereas the latter has only midpoints.
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