November 8, 2013 1:35 am at 1:35 am #611221SecularFrummyMember
They make a lot of claims if one give tzedakah to their organization.November 8, 2013 2:21 am at 2:21 am #985960☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
I don’t think they ever claimed that they can override Hashem’s will.November 8, 2013 2:27 am at 2:27 am #985961streekgeekParticipant
“You pay, we pray”November 8, 2013 2:34 am at 2:34 am #985962karagnosticMember
because its a lie. plain and simpleNovember 8, 2013 2:37 am at 2:37 am #985963writersoulParticipant
Was that a Freudian slip?November 8, 2013 2:53 am at 2:53 am #985964Veltz MeshugenerMember
Kaput ha’ir means the end of civilization.November 8, 2013 11:00 am at 11:00 am #985965LeyzerParticipant
One of the Israeli tzedokos (either Vaad Horabonim or Kupat Hair) offer to have people daven 40 days by the kosel.
they also claim to have had the support of Rav Elyashiv.
In the Artscroll biography Rav Elyashiv said he knows of no Mekor for ravening at the Kosel for a period of 40 days.
Make of that what you will.
I personally throw their dishonest, OTT, manipulative literature in the trash as soon as I get it.
Rav Matisyahu Solomon was very critical of the promises some of these institutions make, taking advantage of people desperate for Yeshuos.
Also you can research how many people were taken in by pseudo Mekubolim promising Yeshuos if they greased their palms with silver. Rav Kadouri and Baba Sali never took money for their Brochos.November 8, 2013 12:13 pm at 12:13 pm #985966nishtdayngesheftParticipant
Who said it didn’t?November 8, 2013 12:55 pm at 12:55 pm #985967The little I knowParticipant
Tefilo and mitzvos are zechusim, and can certainly help someone in need. However, we know from our tefilos of selichos and Yomim Noraim that we approach Hashem as “dalim” and “roshim”, empty handed, not flaunting our mitzvos as the basis to receive anything in return. Regardless, HKB”H is His infinite kindness to us grants us whatever He feels is for our good. HKB”H answers every tefilo, just that sometimes the answer is “No”.
It is quite upsetting to see the collection of tzedokoh for the poor, the sick, or the support of Torah being marketed n ways that parallel the selling of merchandise. The enticements, the advertising, the flaunting of promises, the claims of how the value is guaranteed, and worst of all is the exploitation of Jewish guilt – all have denigrated the great mitzvoh of tzedokoh.
Are we fully conscious that the Vilna Gaon, Reb Chaim Brisker, Besh”t, Reb Elimelech, etc. never donated a single penny to Kupat Ha’ir or to the Vaad Horabbonim? There are many worthy tzedokos, and none of these organizations own the monopoly on the mitzvah, your money, or the schar that HKB”H gives to those who fulfill this great mitzvah.November 8, 2013 2:25 pm at 2:25 pm #985968rebdonielMember
My rebbi and teacher, Rabbi Marc Angel (a musmach of RIETS, and author of 26 books) wrote the following about Kupat haIr, in his book “Maimonides, Spinoza, and Us: Toward An Intellectually Vibrant Judaism,” pp. 107-08:
“A significant Orthodox charitable organization provides assistance to needy individuals and families. On a regular basis, it sends glossy brochures to potential donors, soliciting contributions. These brochures include abundant pictures of saintly looking men with long white beards, engaged in Torah study and prayer, and signing their names on behalf of this charitable organization. The brochures promise donors that the Gedolei haDor (the great sages of our generation) are official members of the organization. One of the rabbinic sages associated with this charity is quoted to say, “all who contribute to [this charity] merit to see open miracles.” Moreover, donors are told that the Gedolei haDor will pray on their behalf and are actually given a choice of blessings they would like to receive from these prayers: to have pleasure from their children, to have children, to find a worthy mate, to earn an easy livelihood. “Urgent request are immediately forwarded to the homes of the Gedolei haDor.”
Is it appropriate for a Gadol haDor to assure contributors that they will be worthy of open miracles? Can anyone rightfully speak on behalf of the Almighty’s decisions relating to doing open miracles? Doesn’t this statement reflect a belief that prayers uttered by so-called sages (similar to incantations uttered by shamans!) can control God’s actions, even to the extent of making God do miracles?
In this brochure, dressed as it is in the garb of Torah-true religion, we have a blatant example of superstitious-tainted Judaism. The leaders of this organization assume: (1) Gedolei haDor (we are not told who decides who is a Gadol haDor, nor why any Gadol haDor would want to run to the Kotel to pray every time a donor called in an “urgent request”) have greater powers to pray than anyone else; (2) a Gadol haDor can promise open miracles if we send in a donation; (3) a prayer uttered at the holy site of the Kotel has more value than a prayer uttered elsewhere, that is, the Kotel is treated as a sacred, magical entity; and (4) A kvitel placed in a crevice in the Kotel has religious value and efficacy. This brochure relies on the public’s gullible belief in the supernatural powers of Gedolei haDor and the Kotel.November 8, 2013 2:35 pm at 2:35 pm #985969DaMosheParticipant
As was written already, R’ Matisyahu spoke out very strongly against the advertising from Kupat Ha’Ir. I have never given them a penny. I wrote a while ago that I was thinking of “testing” it because my wife had been out of work for a while. I didn’t end up doing it.
But guess what? Feif Un posted a few years ago about how he davened extra hard on Rosh HaShanah for a few things, and Hashem gave them all to him. This year, I told me wife, let’s do that too – daven extra on Rosh HaShanah for a good job to come your way. B”H, it did shortly after!
You don’t need all the segulos and brachos. Just daven with real kavanah, and Hashem will give you what you need. If it seems you’re not getting it, just remember, that is the best thing that can happen for you.November 8, 2013 2:59 pm at 2:59 pm #985970HaLeiViParticipant
Promising money to Tzedakka in a trying time can bring great Yeshuos and helps make sure that your Tefilla gets answered. It is not unique to any particular Tzedakka. Many Gabba’ei Tzedakka can tell you about Yeshuos people had when they donated to them.November 8, 2013 4:31 pm at 4:31 pm #985972Sam2Participant
Kupat Ha’ir is tricking people for many reasons, but the Gemara does say that a “Chacham’s” Tefillah is more effective than an average person’s.November 8, 2013 5:11 pm at 5:11 pm #985973
Their claims are ridiculous and you can’t bribe Hashem. If the blockage stems from things you aren’t doing that you should be or things you are doing that you shouldnt then giving a ton of money to Tzeddaka wont change it because its not a matter of gaining zchusim you are blocking your own shefa (abundance…) with your aveiros.November 8, 2013 5:24 pm at 5:24 pm #985974Little FroggieParticipant
VM is right. If one is giving for “Kaput Ha’ir”, things can only get… scaryNovember 8, 2013 6:43 pm at 6:43 pm #985975HaLeiViParticipant
Whenever people discuss Mitzvos there are those yelling that Tzedakka is better and more important, and that a bigger deal should be made of it. Now that it was done, still no good?
And yes, the Gemara says Tzaddik Moshel. And Chazal is full of people asking Chachamim and Tzadikim to Daven for them. In fact, Avimelech was advised in his Nevua to have a Navi Daven for him.November 8, 2013 7:27 pm at 7:27 pm #985976Sam2Participant
HaLeiVi: The issue here is obvious. Judaism believes that Tzadikim and Talmidei Chachamim can affect this world in ways that the average person can’t. That much is obvious to anyone who learns.
On the other hand, what we see is a reaction to the hero-worship of “Gedolim” that sometimes borders on near-deification. The reaction is to deny any sort of non-Halachic authority to said Gedolim. The proper response should be to learn Torah and learn what Chachamim can and can’t do.November 8, 2013 7:28 pm at 7:28 pm #985977
I saw from the Ksav sofer, Noam Elimelech and others that you can’t bribe Hashem and you can’t do wrong things and just say oh Ill give Tzeddaka and that will just wash it all away.
Also, although its a great thing to have a Tzaddik daven for you I heard bsheim I think it was the Chofetz chaim and others said it as well that a persons own Tefillos for himself are more effective than even a Tzaddik Davening for him.November 8, 2013 7:32 pm at 7:32 pm #985978
Haleivi and others read this!
From Rabbi Eli Meyer Smith on Hakollel dot com
: Rivkah cried to Yaakov that he should
daven for her that she should have children, and if
the pain of being childless. She wanted Yaakov to
storm the Heavens with prayers in order to ease her
pain and guarantee her a child. This complaint
bothered Yaakov greatly because he knew that he
did not have the power himself to provide her with a
child. The prayers of tzadikim do not have to always
withholding a child from you. Hashem is withholding
mussar that she should not depend upon him alone.
He wanted to tell her that she herself should daven
and beseech Hashem for children. We see this later
in the verse (30:22), where it states: And Hashem
remembered Rochel. And Hashm listened to her and
he opened her womb. We see that she davened and
Hashem heard her prayers.
It is undoubtable that Yaakov davened for Rochel.
Yet, his tefillah went unanswered. Now, when she
complained that he must succeed with his tefillos
and grant her a child, he became upset at her and
told her that she must daven for children herself.
Rashi: Why did Yaakov get angry when Rochel asked
him to daven for her? He answers that Yaakov
of Hashem? Why do you want me to daven to
Hashem and ask Him to give you children through
my payers? You should daven yourself!
Yitzchok davened for Rivkah! Yaakov answered: I am
not like YItzchok. Yitzchok had no children. I have
children and cannot daven for something that I
already have. Even though we know that tzadikim
have the ability to daven for others, the Mizrachi
explains that tzadikim can only daven for something
that they do not have, or they can daven to Hashem
have. However, a tzadik cannot daven for something
related to him that he already has.
Rochel children? Because he already had children. If
he would daven for Rochel to have children, it would
also be a tefillah for himself to have more children.
have any. Yaakov could not daven for more children,
since he already had children.
Why is this so? Why can a person only daven for
something which he lacks, or for someone else for
something that person lacks, but not for himself for
something which he already has?
The verse in Parshas Vayeira, in the story of Hagar
and Yishmoel, says: And Hashem heard the voice of
the lad. Rashi quotes Chazal that say that we learn
from here that the prayers of a sick person are
superior to the prayers of others. The prayers of a
sick person are accepted sooner. Even though Hagar
the prayers of Yishmoel were accepted first. This is
because the sick person feels the pain and suffering.
Even if his tefillah is not said with very much
devotion, it is still a prayer from the depth of his
heart. Such a prayer is accepted quickly.November 8, 2013 7:52 pm at 7:52 pm #985979live rightMember
“Why didn’t Kaput Ha’ir work for me?”
Because you believed it would.
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