July 17, 2015 1:36 pm at 1:36 pm #616032
If you gave a man flowers he’d probably thing you’re crazy.July 17, 2015 2:03 pm at 2:03 pm #1151312
Men like flowers too, it’s just that our current gender rules state that flowers are a gift to a woman. Flowers are pretty and smell nice and the fact that they don’t last long means that the person who gave them can give the same thing again.July 17, 2015 2:12 pm at 2:12 pm #1151313DikDukDuckParticipant
Who doesn’t like flowers, I do and I am not women.July 17, 2015 2:24 pm at 2:24 pm #1151314modeh aniMember
lemay nafka minaJuly 17, 2015 2:32 pm at 2:32 pm #1151315
Would any of you men appreciate it if your chavrusa bought you flowers every few weeks?
RY23: It’s been like this between women and flowers far longer than just current rules.July 17, 2015 2:42 pm at 2:42 pm #1151316charliehallParticipant
I like flowers! I belong to the New York Botanical Garden and visit there often. And I’m not female.July 17, 2015 3:38 pm at 3:38 pm #1151317yytzParticipant
Pesachim 109 and elsewhere: Men and women rejoice over different things–Men have simcha with meat and wine, while women rejoice over clothing (colored clothing for women in Bavel).
Similarly, Rambam rules that one should give women jewelry and clothes for Yom Tov, since this is what gives them simcha.
There seems to be something in human nature which makes women, more than men, like beautiful clothing and other nice-looking objects (flowers, decorations in the house).July 17, 2015 3:46 pm at 3:46 pm #1151318
Joseph, yes. It beautifies the Shabbos table, and such a gesture would be appreciated.July 17, 2015 3:54 pm at 3:54 pm #1151319
I’m bringing you flowers every Erev Shabbos before we leave Yeshiva, DaasYochid.July 17, 2015 3:58 pm at 3:58 pm #1151320
Much appreciated.July 17, 2015 4:03 pm at 4:03 pm #1151321sushibagelMember
Try understand people who come from Venus!July 17, 2015 4:08 pm at 4:08 pm #1151322WolfishMusingsParticipant
I like flowers, and I’m not a woman.
My wife also buys me flowers on occasion too (although she usually does this with the intent of me photographing them as I enjoy floral photography).
The WolfJuly 17, 2015 6:09 pm at 6:09 pm #1151323Little FroggieParticipant
No, CharlieHall, You DON’T belong to the New York Botanical Garden. Hopefully.
And yes, I too love flowers, esp. a colorful, gay cheerful arrangement.July 17, 2015 6:42 pm at 6:42 pm #1151324
Okay, we heard a boatload of flower-loving men. We fully accept that.
Now let’s hear why women like flowers. Or are we saying that there are no general differences between men and women enjoying flowers?
Otherwise, why are women associated with flowers much more than men – i.e. flowers being a common gift from husband to wife but not so common from wife to husband?July 17, 2015 7:28 pm at 7:28 pm #1151325
1. Women are supposed to like pretty things. Men are supposed to like useful things.
2. Flowers beautify the home, which is very important to many women.
3. The first two make flowers seem girly to some men so a gift of flowers would insult them.July 17, 2015 7:47 pm at 7:47 pm #1151326
I like that teretz, RY23; the first tzum zach.
For that you’re getting a bouquet of flowers for Shabbos.July 17, 2015 8:10 pm at 8:10 pm #1151327randomkid17Member
Not all women like flowers. Personally i hate themJuly 17, 2015 8:40 pm at 8:40 pm #1151328
Hating flowers is bad. They have done nothing wrong.July 17, 2015 11:26 pm at 11:26 pm #1151330ShiiMember
I think that as a general rule it doesn’t really matter what the gift is, it matters what the thought behind it is. It happens to be that has become a common practice for flowers to be given to a woman because they appreciate the smell and the presentation.July 18, 2015 11:32 pm at 11:32 pm #1151331yungerman123Participant
Women like flowers because they are a gift of something which basically has no intrinsic value to her husband and is therefore a gesture of his love for her. Since flowers have no use, they are purely and completely a gift of love. Clothing or a new dish are something he has to provide and it has a purpose, but flowers in their non-functionality can only be a token of love or appreciation.July 19, 2015 2:06 am at 2:06 am #1151332
I think that cut flowers are pathetic. For 24 – 36 hours they look pretty, but then they start to wither and wilt and smell bad.July 19, 2015 2:43 am at 2:43 am #1151333
Some flowers can last up to 2 weeks cut.July 19, 2015 2:52 am at 2:52 am #1151334Torah613TorahParticipant
I like flowers, but only when my husband buys them 🙂
Everyone who posted in this thread is the exception that proves the rule. Most women like flowers and jewelry. Most men prefer beer or a smoker or scotch.July 19, 2015 2:58 am at 2:58 am #1151335
Joseph, the flowers were stunning. How’d you know my favorite color is fuchsia?
T613, how does an exception prove a rule? Wouldn’t a rule be stronger if there were no exceptions?July 19, 2015 3:08 am at 3:08 am #1151337Torah613TorahParticipant
It’s like the Sanhedrin that couldn’t execute a person if every single 71 of the people agreed they are guilty, because if every person sees something the same way, there is something suspicious going on.July 19, 2015 3:23 am at 3:23 am #1151338WolfishMusingsParticipant
T613, how does an exception prove a rule? Wouldn’t a rule be stronger if there were no exceptions?
A common misunderstanding.
The way we use the word “prove” today would mean that when you finally find an exception, then you know the rule is true. Of course, that’s logically inconsistent because, if you find an exception, then the rule is not a rule. So how did this phrase originate?
The answer is that when the phrase was coined, “prove” had a different meaning. “Prove” meant “to test.” So to “prove a rule” actually meant to test it. You would use an exception to try to test whether or not the rule was true.
The WolfJuly 19, 2015 3:50 am at 3:50 am #1151339
Joseph, the flowers were stunning. How’d you know my favorite color is fuchsia?
The same way apushatayid (jphone) pointed out my understanding of squeak:July 19, 2015 3:56 am at 3:56 am #1151340
I heard that finding a written exception proves that there exists a rule to which that is an exception.July 19, 2015 2:33 pm at 2:33 pm #1151341SayIDidIt™ParticipantJuly 19, 2015 5:50 pm at 5:50 pm #1151342writersoulMember
I like pictures of flowers and seeing flowers in the wild and in parks. I don’t like bouquets- they’re messy and make my nose itch and smell overpowering.
I think that fake flowers can be good for decorating.
I like a lot of things better than flowers. I look at all those engagement pictures with girls holding bouquets of roses and just imagine being forced to inhale all that pollen.July 19, 2015 6:28 pm at 6:28 pm #1151343
writersoul: For your engagement and wedding, we will advise your future chosson make sure to forgo all floral arrangements and, rather, plaster nice pictures alongside faux flowers.July 19, 2015 6:43 pm at 6:43 pm #1151344sushibagelMember
So far all female posters have said they disklike flowers on the other hand we’ve had a few male posters saying they do like flowers.
Gevald! What’s the world coming to?July 20, 2015 3:36 pm at 3:36 pm #1151345
writersoul, that’s my point exactly!
Did you ever walk past a blooming rose bush and take a deep breath? Ahhhhh…Borei Atzai Besamim! (With lots of kavana.)
But did you ever smell long-stem roses from a florist? They smell like chemicals and grass.July 20, 2015 3:41 pm at 3:41 pm #1151346DC MUTUMember
mrs plony please remember that atzei besomim is not applicable to every smell. There are in fact 5 brochos. Ask your husband for more info.July 20, 2015 8:54 pm at 8:54 pm #1151347WiseyParticipant
I once bought the cheapest (but nice) flowers in the store for my host. After shabbos the baal habayis said to me, “Those were beautiful flowers. How did you know which ones to choose? Those are the ones I buy for my wife every shabbos!”
(Since he said it seriously I think that he must have made a mistake)July 20, 2015 9:40 pm at 9:40 pm #1151348
Wisey: He may have been just trying to be nice and gracious. He’d could said that about anything, with the same serious expression, even if you plucked a few flowers from your garden to give him.July 21, 2015 7:34 pm at 7:34 pm #1151349shuliParticipant
Yungerman123 explained it well. Women in general don’t necessarily appreciate a gift itself, they appreciate the thought behind it. And because flowers typically don’t DO anything, it shows *just* the thought behind it. And that’s what makes flowers a nice gift. It helps that they look beautiful and smell good.July 21, 2015 8:11 pm at 8:11 pm #1151350
It helps that they look beautiful and smell good.
So it’s slightly preferable to give flowers rather than a rock, which also doesn’t do anything.July 21, 2015 8:47 pm at 8:47 pm #1151351golferParticipant
DY, if you are going to give your wife a rock, it had better be very very shiny and sparkly and ensconced in a precious metal such as gold or platinum.
As for me, I love getting flowers!July 21, 2015 9:21 pm at 9:21 pm #1151352
Some women are geologists who would love almost any rock.July 22, 2015 4:06 pm at 4:06 pm #1151353
DC MUTU, you make me angry! I have seen plenty of people making the point that halacha is not always simple and straightforward, but the appropriate closing is “Ask your rabbi” or “Ask your LOR” (with LOR an acronym for ‘local orthodox rabbi’). But “ask your husband’?!?! What if I was ch”v widowed or divorced? What if my screen name didn’t make it obvious that I was married? Suppose it was Little Froggie or RebYidd23 who mentioned making Borei Atzai Besamim on rose bushes? Oh, hey, since they’re men they obviously know all halachas inside and out, so there would be no need to tell them to double check. (Sarcasm.) (On the other hand, I only know them through the CR. Maybe they do know all of SHAS and Shulchan Oruch. Go know.)
I hope I’ve raised your consciousness.July 22, 2015 6:03 pm at 6:03 pm #1151354thethinkingjewParticipant
ATT HUSBANDS AND HUSBANDS TO BE:women like flowers from their husbands because it means that they are being thought about.
it helps with building relationships.July 23, 2015 3:05 am at 3:05 am #1151355Little FroggieParticipant
So sorry. I DON’T know the ANY halachos, either inside or out, neither top side up nor bottom side down.
I’ll ask Frogette..July 23, 2015 3:09 pm at 3:09 pm #1151356
Little Froggie, there’s no need to apologize. There’s a need for DC MUTU to apologize. I’m waiting.July 23, 2015 3:13 pm at 3:13 pm #1151357YW Moderator-29 👨💻Moderator
Mrs. Plony: I’m not sure anything he said was apology worthy but even if it was, he won’t be back.July 23, 2015 4:39 pm at 4:39 pm #1151358
Oops. Was that my fault? I just took offense at the “ask your husband” part.
As it just so happens, my husband IS Rabbi Plony, but DC had no way of knowing that. The idea that any random male is more knowledgeable than any random female is insulting to knowledgeable females.July 23, 2015 4:53 pm at 4:53 pm #1151359
Advising a wife (or children) to ask the husband about a halachic or hashkafic issue shouldn’t be any more insulting to females than advising to ask your rabbi. A husband is the halachic authority in the home. That is part of the normal duties of a husband/father. His wife should be consulting him on halachic questions. If a rabbi needs to be consulted, it is part of his responsibilities to make that inquiry.July 23, 2015 8:11 pm at 8:11 pm #1151360zogt_besserParticipant
Depends what you mean by halachic authority. While the wife has to follow her husband’s minhagim (igros moshe orach chaim 1:158), if she has a shailah about halacha- *as opposed to minhag*- then she should ask a rav. Her husband has no ability to pasken a shailah for her (unless he is a talmid chacham), other than when it comes to clarifying his own family’s minhagim.
Besides, on a basic issue like berachos, women should know the halachos anyway (per the rema in yoreh deah 246:6
??”? ????? ???? ????? ????? ??????? ????).July 23, 2015 8:41 pm at 8:41 pm #1151361
A husband is a rebbe to his wife and children.July 23, 2015 10:19 pm at 10:19 pm #1151362golferParticipant
Joseph, I’m not sure if you’re deliberately being dense, or deliberately playing games with Mrs Plony (eishes HaRav Plony). She was just trying to point out to you that although many ladies are fortunate to have a husband, and of those many are actually fortunate to have a husband who can learn and is well versed in Halacha, there are others not so fortunate. (And don’t start with, ‘then she should go to her father or her older brother…’ There are women who don’t have a man to turn to.)
Why not just suggest that Shaylos be directed to one’s Rav? No hurt feelings, and not bad advice in any case.
As for zogt-b, thank you for quoting the Re”ma. Of course we ladies should know a thing or two ourselves. I hope my Rav doesn’t stop to wonder at my ignorance when I inquire about something that I should have known on my own.
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