Why does Cholov Yisroel milk cost so much?

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  • #1394462

    Meno
    Participant

    Why is it different from any other kosher product?

    Don’t you just need a mashgiach temidi? Does that cost so much?

    #1394466

    Joseph
    Participant

    All kosher food costs more than its non-kosher equivalent food.

    #1394470

    Meno
    Participant

    1) That doesn’t really answer my question

    2) When you say “kosher food” I assume you mean kosher brands. Why can’t cholov yisroel be like kosher Coca Cola?

    #1394485

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Why can’t cholov yisroel be like kosher Coca Cola?

    Kosher Cocal Cola isn’t a special run, and they don’t even have a mashgiach temidi.

    A lot more Coca Cola is produced than CY milk. The cost per bottle to certify Coca Cola is negligible (they probably charge the exact same price per bottle as they would if there were no certification), but that’s not the case for CY milk.

    Also, I’m curious as to how much you think CY milk costs. I very rarely pay more than $2.50, and sometimes pay as little as $2 for a half gallon.

    Should I post a picture?

    #1394486

    Joseph
    Participant

    Why should the price of Cholov Yisroel compared to national brand milk be different than the cost of kosher meat compared to national brand meat?

    #1394491

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Why should the price of Cholov Yisroel compared to national brand milk be different than the cost of kosher meat compared to national brand meat?

    Every animal needs shechita and bedika, then melichah/hadachah, and needs special packaging and/or transport to ensure integrity.

    All of this is not true for milk.

    #1394827

    apushatayid
    Participant

    Is the price of CY milk so high? There may be some stores that charge more than others, but this is true of non CY milk too.

    #1394835

    apushatayid
    Participant

    “All of this is not true for milk.”

    Does the CY come from a “part time” CY farm or a full time one. A “part time” CY farm is one that is “rented” for a special CY run. A team of mashgichim have to 1st kasher all equipment that comes in hot contact with the non cy milk and all storage vats that store milk for 24+ hours at a time. Once done, one or more of the team remains on site at the farm during the entire CY production run which may be several days or several weeks. There may be several such productions a year to ensure a continuous supply of fresh CY milk. this costs money. the mashgichim dont come from a gmach. A full time CY farm doesnt have the kashering component, but, it should be pointed out that most farms are not situated near a heimishe neighborhood, and you have to make it worthwhile for someone to live in such a place all year long. Those who live in these far flung places are not doing it out of the goodness of their heart and are not a gemach and they have to be compensated for it.

    #1394872

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    Meno: Are you specifically asking about milk or all chalav yisroel products? While 1/2 gallon milk prices are somewhat competitive with chalav stam, gallon size containers are not sold in the NY Markets as those prices are controlled and the CY dairies do not want to be subjected to those controls.

    #1395047

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant
    #1395069

    yehudayona
    Participant

    iacisrmma, I’ve seen gallons of CY milk in at least two NYC kosher stores.

    In areas where there’s a lot of competition (i.e. frum neighborhoods in Greater NY), CY milk is not a lot more expensive than non-CY milk. In the rest of the US, it’s a lot more expensive.

    #1395072

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Outside of NYC which has some really quriky regulations on all milk sales, the priciing varies considerably between smaller “heimeshe” markets and larger, modern kosher “supermarkets”. The latter have increasingly been using really low prices on chalav yisroel (competitive with chalav stam in some cases) as a “loss leader”, to attract shoppers to the market. The heimeshe markets simply cannot afford to match those prices because they purchase and sell in much smaller volumes, are less efficient in their storage and cooling facilities etc.

    #1395076

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Is there a good location for a dairy farm in Willy or BP?

    #1395093

    Joseph
    Participant

    Is there a good location for a dairy farm in Willy or BP?

    Willy and BP used to have farms.

    #1395094

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    yehudayona: Please name them as they aren’t carried by stores in Flatbush/Boro Park.

    #1395208

    yehudayona
    Participant

    I think I’ve seen gallons at Moisha’s on occasion. I’m pretty sure I’ve seen them at Aron’s Kissena Farms in Queens. Sorry to be vague, but I’m pretty sure a gallon wasn’t cheaper than two half gallons, so I didn’t dedicate any brain cells to remembering where I’ve seen them. Why are you so interested in gallons of milk?

    #1395227

    Joseph
    Participant

    I don’t think there is any truth to the idea that there is a different set of government price regulation of milk based on whether the bottle is a gallon or smaller than a gallon.

    That said, while I’ve rarely seen CY gallon bottles of milk, it’s been quite rare.

    #1395243

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    yehudayona: Since I was told by salesmen from various CY companies that they do not sell the gallon size in NY due to the regulated price of a gallon container of milk.

    And the gallons of milk by Moisha’s are Chalav Stam, not CY.

    #1395278

    Jersey Jew
    Participant

    Joseph,

    “All kosher food costs more than its non-kosher equivalent food.”

    Simply said this is sheker. I’d suggest you head to normal stores like ShopRite, Stop and Shop, etc and stay away from those holier stores.

    #1395281

    Jersey Jew
    Participant

    You also have to take into account all the milk that’s sour and can’t be sold.

    Seriously, the Cholov Yisroel consumer is getting ripped off. They should be no reason that CY should cost any more than 20-25% above CS.

    #1395283

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    For more milk pricing info, check out the USDA’s “Retail Dairy Market News,” and “Milk Cost of Production Estimates.”

    #1395284

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    With respect to NY milk regulations, perhaps an innovative marketer could sell one gallon containers of a mix of 50% cholov yisroel and 50% cholov stam and label it with a catchy name, something like “Half and Half”…this might help bring down the cost and further confuse the situation. Also, think of how many new threads Joseph could start as to why any Rav who gives it a hashgacha is probably some nitwit “shtieblach rebbe”.

    #1395362

    Joseph
    Participant

    El Rusbo: Kosher food costs more than its non-kosher equivalent food.

    #1395373

    apushatayid
    Participant

    “Kosher food costs more than its non-kosher equivalent food”

    What you likely mean is, smaller jewish (heimish) brands cost more than larger national brands, but, since I am not in the business of assuming what other people mean, can you clarify?

    #1395399

    Joseph
    Participant

    I simply meant that food produced specifically for the kosher market will almost always cost more than food not specifically produced for the kosher market. In virtually any food category.

    #1395405

    Meno
    Participant

    food produced specifically for the kosher market will almost always cost more than food not specifically produced for the kosher market

    This is exactly the question I’m asking. Why does it have to be that Cholov Yisroel milk has to be “produced specifically for the kosher market”? What would it entail to take a regular milk production plant and switch it over to produce Cholov Yisroel milk? If it’s just a mashgiach temidi (or even several) and kashering the keilim, that doesn’t seem like a huge deal.

    I understand that a large portion of people who are makpid on cholov yisroel would probably not drink this milk anyway, just like they wouldn’t eat Heinz ketchup. But there might be a lot of people who drink cholov stam who would make the switch if it were more convenient.

    Maybe I’m missing something. Maybe I’m way off.

    #1395407

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Devash milk is produced at Herrington Farms, and Pride of the Farm is produced at Kreider Farms.

    #1395410

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    I checked with the NYS Office of Agriculture and Markets and was told that while at one time they did regulate the price of gallon containers of milk, they no longer do so.

    #1395415

    Joseph
    Participant

    Milk price regulations (and farm subsidies) in the U.S. (as well as in Europe regarding farm subsidies) are completely out of whack and idiotic.

    Meno: DY’s last comment seems to answer your question that what you suggest is already the case.

    #1395419

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Meno: DY’s last comment seems to answer your question that what you suggest is already the case.

    Well, that was my point. I’m sure Meno gets it.

    #1395422

    Joseph
    Participant

    I think Meno needs encouragement to muster a response.

    (My attempt at humor sometimes doesn’t come across a textual conversation.)

    #1395443

    JJ2020
    Participant

    Meno – at least in some places many different smaller farmers deposit their milk in a central location. It’s mixed and then distributed. So you would have to talk every single farmer bar none into having a Jew on their farm.

    #1395553

    Sadigurarebbe
    Participant

    supply and demand just like the rest of the kosher food market. and why kosher food is usually costlier.

    #1395559

    Sechel HaYashar
    Participant

    I’m surprised no one mentioned this, but in addition to paying mashgichim, and often multiple Hashgochos, milk must come from an animal that is kosher (not just a kosher species, but an animal that isn’t a treifah) so certain surgeries will disqualify a cows milk being used. I heard from a veteran mashgiach that being that it’s hard to know which surgery a particular cow may have had, and cow that ever had surgery is disqualified, and sometimes that’s up to 10% of the cows.

    #1395569

    yehudayona
    Participant

    It would seem that the reason that CY milk is rarely sold in gallon containers in NY is that people are used to half gallons, and the cost of producing a gallon isn’t significantly cheaper that the cost of producing two half gallons.

    #1395575

    Joseph
    Participant

    If I’m not mistaken, a gallon of non-CY milk cost less than two half gallons of the same. Hence the popularity of the gallon containers.

    #1395579

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    yehudayona: Not really. Until 2007, gallon container prices were regulated by the state and the maximum price was significantly less then what CY would charge. Even though those regulations ended they did not start to sell them in the NY area even though they shipped the gallon containers outside the NY area.

    #1395584

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @yehudayona…………..
    Milk .sold in NYC was traditionally done in quarts. Most people lived in apartment houses and the obligatory refrigerators supplied by landlords were quite small.
    People shopped on foot and carried groceries home from the corner market,
    In the 1950s and 60s I remember vending machines in the basement of my grandparents’ apartment buildings that sold quarts of milk and orange juice for 25 cents each.
    It was only after the coop/condo conversion craze of the 1970s that people who now owned their apartments modernized their kitchens and put in larger appliances that half gallon milk sales skyrocketed. BUT, most NYC residents still shopped by foot and the gallon container was too heavy for shlepping home from the local store. This was also the time that milk started to be available in plastic bottles which were far lighter to carry than glass and did not have to be washed and returned.
    I was born and raised in CT. When the NY relatives would visit the women would always marvel that the kitchen was so big and we had room for a 24 cu. ft fridge and a full size freezer. Our milk was delivered by a milk man and we didn’t have to be concerned about the size of the container.

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