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Why don’t large NY (I’m taking places where the cost of living is exorbitant) families that are struggling to pay rent, put food on the table, and buy basic needs move out of NY? The cost of living is so much lower, so most of the stress from financial issues will be relieved. There are plenty of out of town communities that are not so out of town at all!! Most housing goes from only 200k-500k. If you are struggling, even if you have a job, why don’t you move away?
How much does living near family, being comfortable in your community/shul, and schools have to do with the decision to stay in new york?
I understand moving away is not for everyone. But anyone who is slightly considering it, think more seriously about it!
Because the New York City metropolitan area has better jobs, more jobs, and higher paying jobs than any other frum place in the United States.
Some people may have family that they are unable to or unwilling to move away from.
For a while, Eeees and I considered moving out of town (we considered the Baltimore area) but a large part of the reason that we did not is because we knew that moving away would greatly (and unfavorably) impact other family members. As a result, we are bound to NYC.
The Wolf
“Because the New York City metropolitan area has better jobs, more jobs, and higher paying jobs than any other frum place in the United States.”
as well as higher cost of living, which offsets the higher salaries…
I’ve seen it happen on many occasions (I can think of about 10 off the top of my head).
Besides, you need to look for a job, and Kollel + MOFES in NYC pays better.
It is so easy to come up with suggestions not so easy to implement. Out of the area might seem cheaper, but so is the pay while the cost of kosher products is actually more. The cost of chinuch might also be more because the choices are less or kids have to travel much further to get to school. And yes there is also the cost of travel to jobs and to visit family. And as soon as a community starts to get settled with Frum families, the prices start to go up. Moving is also an expense and kids don’t always do so well when they get moved around. It is NOT always such a good option for kids to pick them up and take them away from their friends and family support when they are already in a bad matzav and move them to a completely unknown area.
Really it is not so simple. But if you think that people in trouble don’t think about this and any other option they might have, you are wrong.
Moving out of NYC? You meen you wont be able to hear all kind of noise all night long? How can a good frum jew even suggest that?…
hudi: The average NY salary premium more than makes up for the average NY cost of living expense premium.
The biggest advantage to moving “in-town” for us was chinuch. One our kids are no longer living at home/are away at yeshiva, I’d move back OOT in a heartbeat. Housing expenses are just huge here and there’s more “shtick” going on here than OOT.
Both my spouse and I are from out of town. We are constantly thinking about moving out of Brooklyn.
The fact is although rent/mortgage is likely to be much cheaper out of town, chinuch costs are at least double. Who can afford multiple tuitions in a small community where there is a much smaller base for raising funds. The schools are also less likely to give serious tuition reductions.
I will follow this thread to see if anyone has any solutions to these issues.
i live in ny and our rent/mortgage is very high. and like hudi said, i’m very hesitant to leave my comfort zone.
But even though its true that the cost of living is lower and tuition is higher which may make it tempting to move; there is one major thing that is here and not there. That is neighbors. When one has children, neighbors are very important, especially in nice weather – tznius, friends, etc… Besides, the gvt services that you can get here, are not available out of NY. I dont know much about gvt help for food, housing, and the like, but i do know that there is no other city that’ll give you services (in my case for a disabled child) like nyc.
Alot of stuff is not easily observed out of town
Outside of maybe Baltimore and South Florida Cholov Yisroel is not available, MAYBE you will be lucky to get milk, certainly not Ice Cream or cheese
Kosher items in general are harder to get out of town. In NY Bread and Ice Cream are all Kosher, this is not the case out of town and some items kosher in NY are not kosher elsewhere.
You also might be subject to issues involving other religions. In Ny other religions sort of keep to themselves. This is not the case elsewhere. Ive seen bible quotes on buildings 50 ft high crosses. People talking about their savior every other word
Wolf: I have a question for you that is completely off topic. I have often wondered why the good woman in your life, whom you often speak of, spells her name with 4 “E”s. Wouldn’t 3 suffice? In fact, some others may agree with me – I sometimes think it may even be a little bit greedy. After all, somewhere there may be someone who desperately needs an “E” and she has 4. She could give one away.
(reminds me – several years ago there were group of thieves going through my city stealing “E” from apartment and other public buildings. After about the 10th episode – and many landlords bitterly complaining – the police put some effort into apprehending the notorious “E” gang. They were successful and they actually discovered a number of the purloined “E”s in one of the crook’s basement.)
Outside of maybe Baltimore and South Florida Cholov Yisroel is not available, MAYBE you will be lucky to get milk, certainly not Ice Cream or cheese
Sorry zahavasdad, that is not quite the case. You can get cholov yisroel ice cream and cheese in probably upwards of 25 regions in the US.
Complaining about New York and want to move out-of-town? By all means, please do.
New York is not for everyone and towns in chutz l’aretz should get its share of complainers and relieve our burden, ’cause we sure get tired hearing you guys yapping off all the time.
If you don’t like New York, don’t talk about it, just leave.
And we don’t need you visitors either if all you’re going to do is complain all the time.
Interesting that the vast majority of G’dolim, Rebbes, Roshei Yeshivos, Rabbonim, frum national agencies, and the list goes on; are all here and when there’s an opening for a Rav, all the out-of town Rabbonim compete for it.
I think wolfishmusings & mikehal2382 have it right. Salaries may be higher in GENERAL in NY area, but a) that does not hold true for everyone and b) in many instances the lower cost of living outweighs the drop in salary when moving out of NY metro. Remember also that NYS is VERY generous with it’s welfare and assistance programs; a generosity that some are dependent on and may not find at all in other places.
I think the real problems stem from leaving family and friends and an established way of life. It’s psychologically difficult to just “pick up and move”. Wolf, my wife and I are also wrestling with the idea of moving out. We live in the Monsey area and both of us really, really dislike it; we’d love to move out to Baltimore or Texas but the impact that will have on our families also gives us pause.
Cherrybim, you may be confusing cause and effect. Rebbes and gedolim may have come to NY BEFORE it got to the point that it is today, not the other way around.
Also, your point may illustrate why NY has become so expensive – the more rebbes/gedolim/institutions, the more people want to live there. The more people want to live there, the pricier the area.
That’s a simplistic economic model, for sure. But it doesn’t go really far beyond supply & demand, my friend.
Wolf: I have a question for you that is completely off topic. I have often wondered why the good woman in your life, whom you often speak of, spells her name with 4 “E”s. Wouldn’t 3 suffice? In fact, some others may agree with me – I sometimes think it may even be a little bit greedy. After all, somewhere there may be someone who desperately needs an “E” and she has 4. She could give one away.
I don’t remember how it was that I came to spell it with four E’s. However, for those who need, I will, below my signature, supply plenty of Es for anyone who needs. Let any who want come and take.
The Wolf
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Wolf:
I have no EEEES 🙁
but I’ll borrow one for this thread,
Thanks for your generosity,
Gavra_at_workE
WHAT Gavra!? You’re borrowing Wolf’s Eeees!?!
He has extra (sheepish).
And I’m not taking Eeees, but EEEES. It is different.
Amar R’ Yosi ben Kisma; paam achas halchti baderech upaga bi adam echad . . . Im yiten li kol kesef v’zahav va’avanim tovos umargaliyos sheba’olam, eini dar ela bimkom Torah!
That being said, and myself being a “Midwesterner”, there is loads of Torah and gedolei Torah in many other communities across the land. Its just that many of the New Yorkers think that they are following R’ Yosi ben Kisma’s advice by staying in (or near) the Big Apple.
zahavasdad: “You also might be subject to issues involving other religions. In Ny other religions sort of keep to themselves. This is not the case elsewhere. Ive seen bible quotes on buildings 50 ft high crosses. People talking about their savior every other word.”
That is absolutely ridiculous. You have never been out of town have you?
Ender, ever been to the South? Actually, I have personally seen/heard both things in the Midwest also.
wanderingchana: Ender, ever been to the South? Actually, I have personally seen/heard both things in the Midwest also.
You are right i have never lived in the south, But there are other places out of NY besides the south. As far as the Midwest, I have lived there for most of my life and have not found “People talking about their savior every other word.”
I think emotion carry’s alot of weight here. It’s very very hard to pick up and go, even when you know it’s for your benefit. familiar things are what pple hold onto.
Ive been to the South and thats where I saw and heard it. Not in Florida, I heard it in Tennessee, NC and Texas. I have not been to Alabama or Mississippi
I did not see or hear it in the Midwest.
In Utah everyone tries to convert you to mormonisn
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