Why I am still frum

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    DY: thanks. I figured.


    Popa: I have my suspicions not only about the shul but who it was who shushed you.

    Snowbunny, I hope that you are not considering as you are being wrongfully evicted that you should be spending what limited money you have paying your “debt” to the people who run this institution. It sounds like a cross between a scam and blackmail. Get out, get on your feet somewhere else, and figure out whether you have to pay them at all. If they are charging you for your spot during time that you are not there, tell me who they are and I’ll put out a hit on them.



    Do you have a ticket to return back to the states?


    I do think it was very irresponsible for the seminary in Israel to admit a BT girl who needed time to pay and then decided she owned $12,000 ASAP otherwise she would have to leave.

    Leaving a young woman in a foreign country (I dont know if she speaks hebrew or not or if she knows anyone there) is a very bad thing.

    If they really needed to ask her to leave, they should have waited until she could get a ticket back to the US


    Zdad, I fully agree.

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕

    This does indeed sound horrible. Sb, what did your Rabbi say?

    BTW, VM, hafroshas challah is done bizman hazeh.


    Snowbunny I am so sorry for how you are being treated, and I think you should not argue with those people, and instead pack and leave that place, use the money for your own expenses (accommodation etc), make flight arrangements, and of course ASAP make sure your rabbi in the states, and those who naively donated, become aware of what goes on. I wish you much success in life in all your endeavours, and that very soon you can build a family and be overwhelmed with the happiness you deserve. Those sick and evil people, ignore them and cut them off your life forever.

    Zahavasdad I agree with you completely on what you write, but not on it being surprising. I hate to write, but the BT business is a huge business, especially in EY. Beware beware beware, when it’s “only” hurt feelings and some money loss, one should move on with life, and realize it could have been much worse.


    please everyone keep in mind this is only part of one side of the story, before you go putting down others or large groups of others


    I am staying in my dorm until the 17th of march. I have already booked a flight. Basically, I am in one of the brovenders programs. They won’t charge me for the time when I am not there. But I will owe them $5-6,000 when I leave. I am just planning on using some scholarship money to pay it off a bit before I leave. My rabbi already knows, I don’t want to discuss everything here because this is a public forum.

    Daniela: Amen!


    DY: Since in the scenario, her teacher had said that it wasn’t necessary since Moshiach wasn’t coming, I interpreted it to refer to specific halachos that are not relevant until Moshiach comes.

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕

    VM, good, it didn’t make that you didn’t know. Since the teacher was an apikores, she probably meant that it’s irrelevant today.


    Speaking of seminaries and money, my daughter’s seminary had to close because they ran out of money. It seems that most parents didn’t pay. When I mentioned that to a friend who was planning to send her daughter to seminary, she quipped, “I didn’t know that was an option.”


    right, but this school knew that i didn’t have money when i applied.


    But they also counted on getting your scholarship money.


    I know there are 2 sides to the story and originally I did defend the Semininary. I do think they should have rejected her (as harsh as that sounds) because of the money situation. They are entitled to the money.

    However once they accepted her and brought her to Israel, knowing the financial details, they have a responsibility to make sure things go OK, Not to kick her out because of money, not to basically make her leave the country.

    its not like she went to a college here in the US and they threw her out because she didnt have the money or a scholarship fell through In that case she could get home fairly quickly and easily even if it means taking an extended bus ride.


    I agree, I think it is disgusting that it got to this point, and that they didn’t reject me. On top of that, I am sick to my stomach every time I think about debt that could have been so easily avoided.


    I sympathize. That’s a really difficult situation. 🙁 I hope you have something waiting for you in the States…? 🙂


    I hope so too.


    Anyone who talks during davening and/or laining is a jerk and should be told so to their face!


    “However once they accepted her and brought her to Israel”

    She said in a different thread that she was already here. She said she started off the year in a different seminary and for some reason it didn’t work out and this seminary accepted her.

    I understand it’s extremely frustrating that you owe money for something you didn’t gain from but in general, schools expect that if a student earns scholarship money, that the earnings would go to the school. They probably assumed they were going to receive that money and it might’ve been a factor with them accepting you.


    For those of you who are confused, I arrived in Israel on August 27th, 2012 on the El Al flight with almost every seminary.

    That may be true, and I was just given a big mussar schmooze about how I have been speaking lashon hara about the program and that I was not actually “kicked out” but my feeling is that the reason that I am interpreting this as being “kicked out” is because I was told that I needed to raise $12,000 by the end of the year in order to stay, and that if I left before Pesach, that I could pay off a significantly smaller amount after I start working and earning money, and that I should go home in order to make money so that I can come back in September.

    I am pretty sure that saying that sort of statement is sugar coating some stuff, and that people want me to live in the “fantasy” that I am a great girl who messed up big time, and since she is not wealthy, can’t stay here. I know I messed up this year big time in several areas, but at the same time, I was not the only one who messed up big time, and, since I am the center of this situation, I am going to suffer the brunt of it. My mom said that there is no way she is willing to send me to Israel again as a result of this. Last time I checked, I never said I was going to sue this program, however, I know that I told the director that I would have to go into debt, and at the time, I did not know how much, but that it could either be no debt, or an extremely high amount of debt (which is ended up being) and that it would take time to negotiate how much money I would get refunded, and other things of the like. I was accepted and joined this program because I was under the impression that the people in charge understood this, and to me, the first paragraph is not realistic, and the fact that I am leaving this program, in many aspects, is turning my life upside down, and that is causing me a ton of stress, and making me, physically sick, I am literally having stomach issues again, and a fever.

    Even though this program has been very accommodating of me in certain aspects, some of those accommodations were not appropriate at all and made me feel stupid, and other ones weren’t exactly perfect, meaning, when I go out with friends, nothing drives me nuts more than constantly getting phone calls from people who say that they are calling to make sure I get back (I understand that they are responsible for me, however, I have a very independent type of personality, and I feel that people don’t trust me if they are constantly calling me when I go out).

    The reason that I am going to be leaving this program, and why I left the first seminary, is because I never should have been accepted into those program because the hanhala from both schools ignored critical pieces of information that I mentioned during my interviews with both schools and then after being in their program, I found out that I needed to leave because even though I was told one thing, they thought the reality was different, and that I could just magically either not be learning disabled anymore, or magically come up with a large amount of money. If I needed to create my shidduch resume today, I am not sure if I would even mention that I went to seminary at all, but that also creates the dilemma where I need to figure out what I would put down that I ended up doing this year.


    I only speak for myself here, but to a certain extent we all sort of care for you and do worry that all will be OK, even though we dont know who you are.

    It is scary being away from home for the first time especially in a foreign country. Your family who calls about getting home is concerned for you.

    When you go to colleges, they have programs like Peer Orientation and consultions , in which fellow students help you adjust to your new life. Seminaries and Yeshivas dont have this. I know many people who did not succeed at their first college and succeeded elsewhere so dont be gloom because it didnt work out.

    When I was a senior in High School we were pressured to go to Israel for a year, I did not want to go, I knew I wasnt ready to go away (I went to a local Secular college instead). It would have been the wrong decision for me at the time, even looking back at it now even though I am sorry I did not spend more time there


    When I was a senior, I was pressured not to go to israel, it turns out that the people who were pressuring me to wait a year and then go to neve were right, not because I was not mature enough to come here, but because even though I was in a high school with bais yaakov hashkafos, I have been sitting for the past few years on the border, hashkafically, between yeshivish and modern orthodox. Additionally, last year, I had to request, for my own sanity, certain accommodations that no other girl would ever have, such as coming to school later on certain days because I was exempt from certain morning classes and therefore would have had nothing to do for long periods of time (if I understood my homework assignments, I would have done them during my free periods), and one day a week, I was able to come to school at 11 am and then leave school an hour later because I was done with classes for that day (yes, that was friday), which other girls who would get that accommodation most likely would have just skipped school that day completely.


    snowbunny3318: Did you look into other seminaries that may be more accommodating, or is your decision made? I believe Nevei has a lot of experience dealing with girls from all sorts of backgrounds, both financial and educational.

    Whatever your decision is, I wish you all the best!


    I already booked my flight to New York. I also have a chedvas interview, G-d willing, on Thursday.

    Additionally, I feel like having a string of schools that I have attended for such short periods of time is not so great for me because my mother constantly gives me looong mussar schmoozes about how I am “ruining my reputation”. I mean, its true that the first school I left didn’t like me, but at the same time, I don’t exactly know how much debt I am in right now, and I personally feel that at the moment, I need a break from learning Torah in a midrasha because this year has been such a big turn off, that I have lost interested in learning about Yiddishkeit. I am looking forward to the week before Pesach in New York because I will be able to relax and hang out with people I have not seen in such a long time that I would love to catch up with. I would also like to, and I know this is expensive, but go to Talia’s and order steak there one night (I went there once with JSU).

    🐵 ⌨ Gamanit

    snowbunny3318- if you’re having stomach problems I don’t think it’s a good idea to eat steak…


    I feel like the stomach problems will go away when I get to New York.


    Why I am still frum:

    Def for the chicken soup!


    SB Have you ever been to NY

    It can be a rough place for people not familiar with the area and customs.


    Yes, I have been to New York numerous times, between NCSY reunions, catching El Al flights, the Zone, and other trips, I typically visit New York 1-3 times a year (I have relatives that live upstate, I am going to them for the sedarim, they keep shabbos Thank G-d).


    popa, that was very closed minded and disturbing.retard? when kids grow up being criticized, their whole attitude on yiddishkeit is affected! and ppl that go otd generally go through a lot of pain. its really not right to generalize like that!my friends brother was criticized excessively by his rebbi when he was young, and so he went otd this past year. its awful!


    A good way to stay strong is to do it for yourself and your own spiritual health. Don’t let others discourage your spiritual growth.


    It helps for people to have positive experiences and so they see and feel the beauty and joy


    Just reading this now… The Mishna Berurah says (in at least two places) that one of the reasons you should not bring small children to shul is that they inevitably will not daven, and they’ll grow into adulthood with the mindset that shul is a place to play and talk.


    Thanks for bumping.


    I’m still frum because the foods great. Duh!


    judging by all the fat husbands from popa’s competition, nirah li that wiy has a point. If only we fattened frumme kids up more with candy and kugel and soda, then they’d stay on the derech.


    We all could help make frum shuls more hospitable. It is mutar to say “Shalom aleichem” and “Shabat Shalom” to people you don’t know.

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