January 9, 2023 7:17 pm at 7:17 pm #2155129ParticipantParticipant
It’s true if you don’t know for sure that you nabbed the right guy then the individual in custody is just a suspect. But if he’s for sure the right guy and just his guilt is questionable, then he’s not a suspect but a confirmed perpetrator with suspected guilt.January 9, 2023 11:14 pm at 11:14 pm #2155160yungermanSParticipant
Which way is justice served?
“Innocent until Proven guilty” or vice versa “guilty until Proven innocent”?
Is it run the same way in Israel?
What about in Bais Din? Which BTW today doesn’t handle with life and death cases?January 9, 2023 11:15 pm at 11:15 pm #2155150
if police is not sure he is the right guy and also not sure tht the act was a crime, then it is sfek sfeika and he should be let go.January 9, 2023 11:15 pm at 11:15 pm #2155144akupermaParticipant
In most countries, the police only arrest you if you are suspected of committing a crime, and therefore you are called a “suspect”. Usually, someone other than the police (some sort of person trained in law, of a higher rank than the police) reviews the police’s suspicions before the person is executed or imprisoned.
There are some countries, where the police arrest you without regard to whether they believe you guilty of doing something wrong, and usually in such countries the person can be rapidly convicted and disposed of regardless of guilt, and in those countries you would not be called a “suspect”. Jews have often lived in such countries – it wasn’t pleasant.January 9, 2023 11:15 pm at 11:15 pm #2155143ujmParticipant
You can’t be sure he’s the right guy until a court convicts him.January 9, 2023 11:29 pm at 11:29 pm #2155178GadolhadorahParticipant
“You can’t be sure he’s the right guy until a court convicts him…”
And even then, you are not “sure” he’s the right guy as evidenced by the growing numbers of convicted felons released from prison each year based on findings that he/she was unlikely to have committed the crime for they were convicted based on new evidence (DNA, confessions by others, etc.)January 10, 2023 11:00 am at 11:00 am #2155239
Only trial and conviction can confirm the suspect is a perpetrator. Until then the arrestee/detainee is an ALLEGED perpetrator.
Leave out that adjective and you can open yourself to slander/libel actions.
We lawyers know to be very careful with choice of words as do journalists.January 10, 2023 11:00 am at 11:00 am #2155240
You ascribe authority to the police they do not have. They make apprehensions, the magistrate or arraignment judge decides to hold or release. The DA, States Attorney or Grand Jury indicts on specific charges.
Here in CT we don’t have DAs, our Stated Attorneys are appointed employees not elected politicians and we don’t use a grand jury system to indict. Much smoother, less political system than New York. We also still set cash bail got most who are arrestedJanuary 10, 2023 9:38 pm at 9:38 pm #2155402ParticipantParticipant
Really? Someone shoots someone and police nab him. Headlines say “Armed man arrested for killing 12-year-old girl”. They would be in danger of libel? There’s no indication of guilt in such a statement. Maybe it’s just a flat-out practice so they don’t slip up? [for example, accidentally writing “Armed man arrested for murder of 12-year old girl”, the word ‘murder’ already determining that a crime has been committed, (albeit not directly accusing the ‘suspect’)]
It seems such a clumsy way of phrasing it. “Suspect arrested in killing of girl”, after surveillance videos clearly show it was him [directed @ujm. The individual’s identity can be known without the court’s conviction.] and the sole question is his guilt. It would make much more sense to write “Killer arrested,” and yes, we know that he faces a jury to determine his guilt.January 10, 2023 9:39 pm at 9:39 pm #2155430
CTL, thanks for the explanation!January 11, 2023 12:09 am at 12:09 am #2155464
A reputable headline would read:
“Armed man arrested in killing of 12 year old girl.”
In means in response to the act of the girl being killed.
No libel can be ascribed to the headline you wrote because man is generic, if it actually used the arrestee’s name and the story did not use verbiage such as alleged it may be problematic.
Any libel action Would wait until after trial. If convicted there is no liability, as truth is always an acceptable defense to libel. There are others, and malicious intent may have to be proven in some jurisdictions. Here the intent appears to be to sell newspapersJanuary 11, 2023 12:09 am at 12:09 am #2155458ujmParticipant
Participant: He can deny the person in the video is him. (To take one hypothetical example, among many possibilities.)January 11, 2023 1:44 am at 1:44 am #2155478anonymouse1079Participant
That’s just how the American justice system is. I have a legal field job and even during a criminal trial, you still have to say “alleged victim”, not just “victim”January 12, 2023 1:37 am at 1:37 am #2155738
CTL > Armed man arrested
a description can be also subtle. Some people are called by where they live – New Yorker, others – by profession – accountant. One famous rioter was called “motorist”. This is not a libel, but a subtle hint that he had no job or address to describe with.January 12, 2023 5:06 pm at 5:06 pm #2155946hujuParticipant
Hey, Participant, your opening comment is foolish. Please participate somewhere else.January 12, 2023 8:16 pm at 8:16 pm #2156018January 13, 2023 10:12 am at 10:12 am #2156122hashem says noParticipant
The only reason why you get arrested is because you are a suspect. Gosh duhhhhhhJanuary 13, 2023 12:36 pm at 12:36 pm #2156182
There are many reasons for arrest that may not include being a suspect.
Some are just plain racist, such as driving while black.
Some ‘bad’ cops make arrests to make quota (yes quotas do exist in some places).
Some arrests are made to be vindictive or get back at someone for personal reasons.
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