Why is it worse?

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  • #1835987
    headingfoward
    Participant

    This thread is not opening to cause any controversy of ideas, rather to gather a view and understanding of a topic for myself.

    Physical and emotional child abuse is prevalent among any community, sadly our own included.
    Why is physical abuse seen as so much worse than emotional abuse when the latter can potentially can leave much deeper scars?

    I’m not here to discuss which in fact is worse. Both are terrible and people should never know of it. I am concerned about the following:

    When emotional child abuse is reported, the validation of the pain can only go so far. Hopefully therapy and professional help is recommended.
    Suddenly when there is a report of physical child abuse it becomes “red flag”, get involved, immediate intervention, BIG problem. Why is the immediate response to physical abuse so definite and validated?
    Are parents that physically abuse their children so much worse than ones that plainly emotionally abuse their children?
    Why is it when someone hears about emotional abuse he is concerned but when it turns to into physical and emotional abuse the situation becomes one of such greater magnitude?

    Our wonderful jewish magazines often write about emotional abuse in their fictional tales of people’s dysfunction lives. The untouched topic is physical abuse.
    Is it so much worse that it’s unspeakable?
    What makes it so much worse?

    To hurt a child physically is so much crazier than to hurt them emotionally?

    Simply looking for understanding and clarity on the topic.
    Open to contradictions and corrections on statements made.

    #1836025
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    I think mental abuse is worse because it is long lasting.

    #1836028
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    People don’t look at the future. They only see the now, instant gratification some what like a chuldren. Physical abuse can be seen right away and the pain is evident.

    #1836043
    Billywee
    Participant

    No-one dies right there from emotional abuse. Kids have died from physical abuse

    #1836054
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Physical abuse includes emotional abuse

    #1836061
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    I think it’s harder to see emotional abuse

    #1836062
    Mam
    Participant

    The concept of emotional abuse is just liberal propaganda by the snowflakes in the drive-by media designed to take down Donald Trump.

    #1836093
    meir G
    Participant

    a few points;
    physical abuse – is black on white many kids who were physically abused ( not extreme) some how adapt and get used to it as crazy as that sounds and as they get a bit older come home less , stay late in yeshiva go to camp, friends for shabbos…
    emotional abuse – is way harder to define and if the child or teen cant handle it then they for sure cant handle climbing out. many times its to one child and the parents can show the other kids are fine….if a teen has a illness like BPD they can make stories which in their twisted view is abuse ( as a form of self infliction…) and an innocent relative or neighbor can buy it .
    one of the reasons frum people or org.s are so reluctant to get involved is because there are no good solutions taking a child away involves numerous legal battles with very little success and worse yet is that most foster children want some how to go back home and despite so much love from their new surroundings many times when they get older they kick back at those that cared for them this is deep psych stuff . so short of pikuach nefesh invite the child r teen out , get him to a dorm , seminary ., camp,, etc..

    #1836108
    headingfoward
    Participant

    I’m not hear to argue which is worse. Im trying to understand- when looking at both situations-

    Why does everyone freak out from physical abuse?
    Parents that a physically absuing their children become automatically “crazy”…
    A teacher that yells and screams is ok but the minute she physically hits a child- she’s in jail.
    Physical abuse defined b ty society is so not ok. WHY IS IT SUCH A BIGGER DEAL THAN EMOTIONAL?

    Obviously its a horrible thing. Why is physical so much crazier and so much scarier than emotional.

    Billwee said: “No-one dies right there from emotional abuse. Kids have died from physical abuse”
    So we fear kid’s death?

    #1836132
    headingfoward
    Participant

    Thank you Meir G that was informative.

    #1836211
    klugeryid
    Participant

    So we fear kid’s death?

    Yes.
    Emotional abuse requires long term for it to be problematic.
    So one more day while we investigate usually won’t make a difference.
    However physical abuse, during that day the kid could be maimed for life, or dead.

    #1836213
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    Emotional abuse requires long term for it to be problematic.
    So one more day while we investigate usually won’t make a difference.

    Oh. My. Gosh. This has got to be *the* most ignorant, incorrectand uninformed comment yet. And if you want to know why, print it up and bring it to any legitimate therapist worth their credentials.

    #1836223
    rational
    Participant

    Physical abuse is easily provable.
    Emotional abuse is not.

    #1836240
    klugeryid
    Participant

    Syag
    Good to see you read all my comments on all threads.
    So knowing I won’t try to prove myself wrong, to help you out, you helpfully provided me with an alternative.
    So sweet
    How’s about you bring it to someone and let me know what they say?
    Or better yet just tell me yourself since your so sure of yourself.

    As I see it, there are four areas of my post you can be disagreeing with
    1) emotional abuse can be life changing even from one days worth
    2) physical abuse cannot inflict permanent harm in one day
    3)we are not afraid of kids dying
    4) most people do not think the way I posted.

    Please feel free to let me know which choice or choices you go with.
    Or perhaps you have a different issue which I missed. I’d love to hear about it.

    This is why as frustrating as he may be, it’s enjoyable to argue with ubiq, (usually 😁) as wrong as I may think he is, and as sure of himself as he may think he is, he puts his cards on the table, he backs up what he says, he details his critique of what the other person said, and you can have an adult conversation.
    As opposed to you are now the second one to offer a variety of
    You are so wrong and you know it and it’s so simple why I don’t even have to say it.
    You do realize that that is a generic argument that can be used by anyone at anytime for any topic on any side of the topic.
    It’s about as substantive as a vacuum.

    #1836248
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    Ouch, sounds like your ego got bruised. Sorry to hear.

    I’ll respond to your sincerity but I am guessing I will regret it. Here goes:
    point #1- I don’t have to bring it to anyone, we all were together when we read it.

    point #2 – I don’t want to have a back and forth with you. I find you don’t stick to the points, have trouble hearing other people’s points, don’t argue with humility and are not concerned with whether or not you heard their point, only what you interpreted from it.
    The only support I will bring for this is the fact that I quoted ONE sentence, and you start listing ALL the points you made in the previous posts and problems I MAY have been alluding to. Why not just hear what I said and think about it? Or, like I said, ask someone else who can answer you face to face to avoid misunderstanding.

    last point. I do believe that some statements really are so wrong that it doesn’t need to be explained. If you aren’t among those who see that, that’s fine. Not everything applies to everyone.
    Good Shabbos.

    #1836267
    klugeryid
    Participant

    The only support I will bring for this is the fact that I quoted ONE sentence, and you start listing ALL the points you made in the previous posts and problems I MAY have been alluding to. Why not just hear what I said and think about it?
    maybe because contrary to what you said
    “are not concerned with whether or not you heard their point,”
    i was actually trying to lock down your point of disagreement
    since you have difficulty expressing it i was trying to help you out. sorry

    I don’t have to bring it to anyone, we all were together when we read it.
    who is we and what did “we” say?

    so i went back
    you believe that one day of emotional abuse is enough to be damaging for life and requires immediate intervention?
    really?
    so if you saw a parent shouting at their kid in a supermarket, you’d call child protective services?
    i mean if 1 day is enough, why stop there, maybe 1 incident?

    I do believe that some statements really are so wrong that it doesn’t need to be explained.

    as a poster (me) so succinctly posted on a different thread,
    they may not have to, but they have to be able to be.
    if you cant explain it when challenged, then you probably shot from the hip and really have no basis for what you said

    #1836273
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    “if you cant explain it when challenged, then you probably shot from the hip and really have no basis for what you said”

    no, not at all. I can explain it and definitely did not shoot from the hip. I already explained why I didn’t respond to you and I explained that you do not seem to accept (respect?) other people’s words. Here it is again for you:

    “point #2 – I don’t want to have a back and forth with you.”
    Sorry. I just don’t like your style and I am pretty sure I am entitled to engage per my comfort level. Ive actually mentioned it a few times over the years but, as I keep pointing out, that doesn’t seem to matter to you.

    #1836288
    klugeryid
    Participant

    Nope. Nothing matters to me at all
    Not even people who feel entitled to call others idiots without explanation and then hide behind their comfort level.

    As others have pointed out here
    Most people comment here expecting to be critiqued and challenged.
    If that’s above your comfort level maybe you just should refrain from commenting, at least on authors whom you don’t want to engage with

    One thing I’ll grant you.
    You are absolutely correct
    I have no respect for opinions given as ”I say this so it must be so and I don’t need to explain or respond to a challenge ”

    #1836291
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    “ Not even people who feel entitled to call others idiots without explanation and then hide behind their comfort level.”

    Umm, that was 2 separate people.

    “ maybe you just should refrain from commenting, at least on authors whom you don’t want to engage with”

    Cute. I’m not sure what life is like for you in the 3D world but you don’t get that level of control over other people In here.

    #1836293
    klugeryid
    Participant

    Not even people who feel entitled to call others idiots without explanation and then hide behind their comfort level.”

    Umm, that was 2 separate people.
    Really?
    ”Oh. My. Gosh. This has got to be *the* most ignorant, incorrectand uninformed comment yet. ”
    Written by you to me.
    point #2 – I don’t want to have a back and forth with you.”
    Sorry. I just don’t like your style and I am pretty sure I am entitled to engage per my comfort level
    Written by you to me

    You may want to spend some time discussing your split personality disorder with your group therapy rather than discussing some nameless posters opinion from the ywn coffee room.

    “ maybe you just should refrain from commenting, at least on authors whom you don’t want to engage with”

    Cute. I’m not sure what life is like for you in the 3D world but you don’t get that level of control over other people In here.

    That’s absolutely correct (see! on point response, targeted to your statement)
    However you are the one who wrote
    I just don’t like your style and I am pretty sure I am entitled to engage per my comfort level.
    I was just commenting if you only want to engage on your comfort level it would probably make sense to not engage someone who is beyond your comfort level.
    See that? Another response that is on target and responding directly to your comment after trying to understand it.

    I will grant you that my tone is snooty.
    It’s very simple.
    If I have a discussion of ideas, I try to keep my tone neutral. But as soon as it’s not a discussion but rather someone just calling me an idiot, well then it’s a different type of conversation.
    I have no issue engaging in whatever style conversation the other person wants.
    So if you want to have a conversation where the only thing is can you out snot the other side, I’m game for that too. It’s nothing personal.
    Have a great shabbos

    #1836300
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    I’m gonna write this just to test a theory that you insist on having the last word.

    #1836302
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    “I’m gonna write this just to test a theory that you insist on having the last word.“

    How does he know that you’re not trying to have the last word?

    🤔😜

    #1836306
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    Oh I totally thought of that as well. My figuring was that nothing I’ve said until now has been received / how it was intended so in the end who cares?

    #1836310
    headingfoward
    Participant

    Ok you both should seek professional help. Your conversation is completely out of hand. If this is your source of fun and entertainment maybe make your own topic thread and you two can talk out your issues.

    #1836312
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    🤣🤣🤣
    Ironic that you can worry about emotional abuse but not think twice about telling someone they need professional help. Very sensitive of you

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