Why is no one talking about the uyghurs

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  • #2054148
    EJMRBro
    Participant

    Is it because china is america’s greatest ally?

    #2054306
    Kuvult
    Participant

    For me its because I read a little about it and don’t know who to believe. I do know a group of them traveled (besides other terror attacks) to interior China far from where they lived and using knives INA train station hacked men, women and children killing and maiming many. Its hard to ask for help based on moral grounds after doing that. Perhaps China trying to knock the extremism which includes violence against innocent civilians is not such a bad thing (though the methods may be to rough).

    #2054308
    ujm
    Participant

    For the same reason we don’t talk about the African cannibals killing (and eating) each other or the other African tribes at constant war and genocide mass murdering each other.

    What’s going on in African is far far worse than anything in China.

    #2054321
    amom
    Participant

    Change yourself and you have changed a world.
    There’s nothing I can do to help them so……….. next topic please

    #2054340
    EJMRBro
    Participant

    @ujm there is systemic murder of a people happening and it appears that not a single western country cares for that matter. Im just wondering what the rationale is.


    @kuvult
    , i was unaware of this event. I will look it up.

    #2054350
    huju
    Participant

    To ujm: Where do you get your “information”?

    #2054357
    ujm
    Participant

    EJM: You should be more worried about the constant killings in Africa.

    #2054352
    akuperma
    Participant

    The Chinese persecution of both the Uyghurs and other Chinese minorities (particularly the Tibetian) is widely discussed, and along with public outrage over China’s opposition to democracy in both Hong Kong and Taiwan, are major reasons why the US appears to be drifting towards hostilities with China.

    This is a good time for business that rely on Chinese imports to find new sources, and for investors to move their investments out of China before they end waiting for compensation from the alien property custodian.

    #2054351
    EJMRBro
    Participant

    @kuvult i just reread what you wrote and saying violence against civilians is not a bad idea. What a sick and twisted way of viewing the world. Even hashem mourned the mitzrim.

    Achzarius is not a siman of a jew, you might want to get your yeichus checked.

    #2054363
    EJMRBro
    Participant

    @ujm answering a question with another question. Very intellegent.

    #2054362

    seems you may have missed the first half of it.

    #2054372
    Bouncing_Yak
    Participant

    It is my opinion that we cannot let this persecution go ignored, and I think we Jews have an even stronger duty to speak out for their persecution. This is a repeat of the holocaust, just for another minority. They are being herded into camps with guards and barbed wire, in “reeducation” centers where they are tortured. Everyone kept assuming the reports about the holocaust were unverifiable and therefore worthy of being ignored, until it was too late, and there was six million less on this planet. We cannot let the genocide of another religious group go unnoticed, yet then expect help and look down upon those who don’t give it when we are put in a similar situation.

    #2054377
    bored_teen 💕
    Participant

    👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

    #2054374
    charliehall
    Participant

    I visited three African countries months before the pandemic hit. No cannibals. No genocide.

    #2054376
    AviraDeArah
    Participant

    Taking up social justice issued did WONDERS for us in Germany

    We’re in galus. We need to know our place and not be policemen of the world or mouth off about every injustice. Sometimes we need to when it’s an issue of kovod shomayim like toeva marriage, but that’s different.

    #2054383
    Kuvult
    Participant

    @mrbro
    Did you read what they did at the train station? Maybe they need to be reprogrammed and brought into the modern world where you don’t hack old ladies to death because you’re having a dispute with her government.

    #2054386

    I think Sec Pompeo was talking about it. Trump preferred to press China using other points but in the same direction. Jewish community used to be more in tune with world politics when we campaigned for Soviet Jews and for Israeli against Arab tyrants. Makes sense to write to your senator.

    #2054394
    Bouncing_Yak
    Participant

    All this makes me wonder who will still be willing to save us when we face the next holocaust. If we don’t care about others, who should care about us?!

    edited

    #2054399
    EJMRBro
    Participant

    @Bouncing_Yak I agree with you whole heartedly.


    @AviraDeArah
    we’re not discussing interfaith dialouge or getting married to shiksas here. Theses are human beings who are being systematically killed. Get your yeichus checked, worst case scenario a little hatavas dam bris mila and a dunk in the mikva isnt the worst thing to happen ro people. Lechora you are an achzari


    @kuvult
    would you like your family to be rounded up because of the wrongdoings of a few meshuganas? How can you be so cruel? See the above (Hint: the answer is snip snip, dunk dunk)

    #2054402
    ujm
    Participant

    CharlieHall: There’s a lot more than three countries in Africa.

    Perhaps you visited those without cannibalism.

    #2054522
    AviraDeArah
    Participant

    Bouncing, ever hear of shomer havtachaso, vehi sheamda? Hashem is there fo save us and he alone. By the churban, klal yisroel looked to all the nations…mitzrayim nosnu yad, yishmoel gave us salty food to make us die of thirst… You’re on a very dangerous path. We never rely on goyim to save us.

    Ejmr, are you suggesting mass giyur? We never do that. It’s the worst thing in the world for a goy if he converts and due to lack of conviction fails to keep mitzvos; you’re creating sinners. That’s if there was some sort of kabalas hamitzvos; if there isn’t, then they’re not Jews to begin with.

    #2054523
    AviraDeArah
    Participant

    Charlie, so see no evil hear no evil?.
    I’m sure a tourist in Nazi Germany would have said …i don’t see any concentration camps here

    #2054555
    Bouncing_Yak
    Participant

    @ AviraDeArah
    If another group is being persecuted, it is the job a the Jewish Nation to stand up, be a light onto the nations, and not stay in a small selfish bubble with things that only concern them. By not standing up, we are practically inviting another holocaust. Apparently, it’s ok if it happens to anyone but us. We cannot be so egocentric.

    #2054560
    EJMRBro
    Participant

    @AviraDeArah Its funny how someone can read a comment and understand it in a completely different direction. Fascinating

    #2054578

    Bouncing Yak – you are both very right and very wrong. And to explain it would take a lot of time and face to face conversations but I wanted to get this post in before someone says something insulting, forgetting not everyone here has any background.

    Yes we should be a moral example. No morality is not defined by what today’s world sees as a moral example. And there is much, much more to that.

    regarding inviting another holocaust, that is just rhetoric and drama. To say that if the whole world ignores the uyghurs including us we are somehow going to be looked at as the ones who stood by, well that isn’t even logical. I do understand the point you are trying to make but the statement you made doesn’t hold. There is so much to learn about the Torah view of things from reliable people and places, please don’t count random statements here and there online to count as your knowledge of Hashem’s world.

    #2054600
    Bouncing_Yak
    Participant

    @Syag Lchochma
    You are absolutely right. I did stretch things a little too far in the earlier post. Regardless, I would like to still highlight the fact that we often pour our lots of anger to countries, such as Britain, or people, such as FDR, who failed to take any action early enough, or at all for that matter, concerning our fate. We are being no different than them now. We know how it feels to be persecuted, and we hold memorials and we remember this tragedy for a long time afterward, yet we are unwilling to recognize that some others are going through the exact same fate, and those who do realize it, view it as something that doesn’t concern them, and pretend to be innocent bystanders. This is not how a Jew full of morals should act.

    #2054599
    AviraDeArah
    Participant

    Bouncing; being an ohr legoyim means that we shine bright in our communities and are a beacon of light, morality and awareness of Hashem to the rest of the world. The reform movement claimed that this pasuk and other dictums in navi and chazal were exhortations to modern day social justice. They were wrong then and their ideas are wrong now.

    Would you consider it egocentric to provide for your family first before helping others?

    Following the Torah makes one as non selfish as possible; it removes the “anochius” the self, the mechitzah that separates us from Hashem. Those mitzvos are almost entirely centered on fellow jews.

    edited

    Rav Hirsch famously wrote about “progress allied to religion”, that social justice is indeed a worthy cause when aimed at religious goals. He had to respond to the reform “religion allied to progress” movement, but before him and after him, has there ever been such a sentiment? Since there isn’t, it makes sense that this was a kiruv measure, much like the kiruv rabbis who have to bend over backwards with college kids to avoid saying that the Torah lechatchila advocates slavery and other issues. It might behoove you to do the same.

     

    #2054610
    ujm
    Participant

    The Uyghur’s aren’t being killed.

    Totally crazy comparison.

    #2054613
    Bouncing_Yak
    Participant

    @AviraDeArah
    As you said, being an ohr lagoyim means that we are beacons of light, morality etc.
    Is it morally correct for anyone to stand by while others are being murdered in cold blood?! Is that how you plan on representing God and showing to the world our derech eretz. By just not caring and standing by while a genocide unfolds? Often quoted is a protest where a group of some of our biggest gedolim stood in front of the white house and protested for the saving of European Jewry. If they had the same mindset as you, what would have happened to us?

    #2054727
    ujm
    Participant

    Bouncing_Yak:

    Why aren’t you out there publicly protesting against the African cannibals that murder and eat their fellow Africans?

    And protesting against the African tribes (Hutus, Tutsis, Zulus, Amharas, Igbos, etc. etc.) that are at constant unending unceasing warfare against other African tribes, killing each other mercilessly and capturing, enslaving and selling opposing tribesmen and tribeswomen.

    You only care about the Chinese perpetrators but not so much about the African perpetrators?

    #2054710
    Bouncing_Yak
    Participant

    This protest, mentioned in my earlier post, in case you want to look it up yourself, is more commonly known as the 1943 Jewish March on Washington.

    #2054711

    In 1930s, NYT was able to deny that Soviets have labor camps and starving millions of Ukrainians,. Now you can see labor camps in China or North Korea in satellite imagery in Google maps or in Planet Labs daily imagery. We obviously have first responsibilities to solve problems within our own communities and other Jews, but we can spend a small percentage of the efforts supporting other worthy causes. Maybe we don’t feel for problems in China as it did not affect us before. It does now with Wuhan virus at least.

    #2054912
    LOBOMAN
    Participant

    Russia is about to invade Ukraine, living prices are soaring, bojo is about to be kicked out, 1000s are dying every day from covid, violent protests about covid laws (more understandable than the laws themselves) massive geiyrus and kashrus problems Syrian prisons being captured and way more in this crazy world. why should we talk about the Uyghurs. seriously? why don’t we speak about the weather in Mozambique?

    #2054913
    LOBOMAN
    Participant

    And there are tons of similar acts all over. seriously, you bore me.

    #2054914
    LOBOMAN
    Participant

    anyway what should we do, invade china?!?!?!?!?!?

    #2055099
    EJMRBro
    Participant

    @LOBOMAN how about a condemnation, international sactions or even pressing china on this issue from the leaders of our countries.

    #2055213
    KGN
    Participant

    Actually, I re-call this being discussed during the Trump era.

    It was on this very site.

    #2055326
    smerel
    Participant

    If I KNEW that what I hear about the Uyghurs is true and there were protests on their behalf I would join them. Being that my knowledge of the issue is coming from sources that I do not trust and even those sources are giving over very little information and no one else is organizing protests on their behalf, not even Uyghurs in other countries, I don’t feel I can get involved.

    And no I don’t fault, say, some potato farmer in Idaho who didn’t protest the holocaust because he barely knew about it if at all

    #2055341
    LOBOMAN
    Participant

    It has happened. Australia, Belgium, Britain, Canada, Denmark, Estonia, Germany, Japan, and the United States have confirmed a diplomatic boycott of the winter Olympics because of it.
    There have also been many other commendations besides for this.

    #2055662

    smerel> If I KNEW that what I hear about the Uyghurs is true

    I thought you can find camps in satellite imagery, but it is even easier – look for censored spots 🙂

    China’s Baidu blanked out parts of its mapping platform. We used those locations to find a network of buildings bearing the hallmarks of prisons and internment camps in Xinjiang ( from prize winning articles in 2020, Blanked-Out Spots On China’s Maps Helped Us Uncover Xinjiang’s Camps(

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