May 6, 2015 2:04 pm at 2:04 pm #615648
Islam is certainly right wing, so why is left wing pro Isalm?May 6, 2015 2:45 pm at 2:45 pm #1076844kfbParticipant
@newbee very good question. The left wing in this country is very “tolerant” of other people and different ideas(besides republicans). The left wing ignores Islam’s views and extreme actions in Muslim countries(killing gays, anti women…). Liberals are anti Christian and by being pro Islam, they are fighting against the Christian religion, which this country was founded on.May 6, 2015 2:50 pm at 2:50 pm #1076845akupermaParticipant
1. They aren’t “pro-Islam” but rather they are frequently in a situation of “the enemy of my enemy is my friend”. Radical Islam is opposed to the western civilization, and dislikes Jews and Christians in particular – meaning they are opposed to something the “Left” dislikes.
2. The Muslim worlds is very left-wing in economics (as are orthodox Jews), and for the most part ignore racial and ethnic boundaries.
3. The western left is increasingly isolationist meaning they prefer not to be involved with all those foreign cultures (whom they consider horribly inferior though they don’t say it). Not wanting to fight Muslims doesn’t mean they like them – they want to ignore them. For example, many Brits were very isolationist in the 1930s, and didn’t object to Hitler until he tried to conquer their country.May 6, 2015 3:49 pm at 3:49 pm #1076846homerMember
They are anti-jew as well.May 6, 2015 4:57 pm at 4:57 pm #1076847feivelParticipant
They are rshoyim virulent anti-semites, though a large percentage are Jews. The Jews among them hate that they are Jews. They are embarrassed to be Jews for the whole world is disgusted by the Jewish People.
However since “they love all peoples” they disguise their hatred of Judaism as an intolerance of the wicked state of Israel. And any enemy of Israel is their friend.May 6, 2015 5:19 pm at 5:19 pm #1076848MDGParticipant
“Liberals are anti Christian and by being pro Islam, they are fighting against the Christian religion, which this country was founded on.”
I agree 100%. But not only that, they are generally anti-Judaism.
The hate their past and anything that reminds them of it.
They hate morality as they know it.
They have guilt for being white (ex-colonizers), so they celebrate the darker peoples. That’s why when an Israeli (half are ex-European) hurts an Arab, it’s news (vicarious white man guilt). But when darker people hurt someone “whiter” or hurt each other, like Arab on Arab or African on African, they don’t make any noise. No white man guilt.May 6, 2015 5:34 pm at 5:34 pm #1076849
United States of America is founded on civil liberties, such as freedom for us as Jews to practice Judaism or other persons to practice whatever religion they want or not.
Many control freak christians don’t understand that America is not supposed to be aligned with any religion, or it wouldn’t be America anymore. That’s why there was a recent attempt to make christianity the “official religion of America”, which fortunately failed. Conversely, for whatever reason, lib control freaks want Islam to be the official religion of the world.May 6, 2015 5:56 pm at 5:56 pm #1076850HaLeiViParticipant
When you face someone else, his right is your left.May 6, 2015 5:58 pm at 5:58 pm #1076851Sam2Participant
It’s a “root for the underdog” mindset. They view Israel as the strong established power so to find an “underdog” they choose to view the Muslems as the downtrodden and the oppressed because they need someone, anyone, to get behind so that they can feel they are good people for supporting the oppressed.May 6, 2015 6:15 pm at 6:15 pm #1076852
i haven’t seen your recent posts, not even the one from last year saying you lost your mod powers
however i remember that mod 80 was feivel
glad to see you backMay 6, 2015 6:25 pm at 6:25 pm #1076853stamaguyParticipant
This is an excellent question. Its hard to make sense out of this apparent contradiction unless one examines the underlying premise of liberal thought:
1. no culture is better than another.
2. to think otherwise would be discrimination/prejudice/bias
a. any culture that is prosperous (America, Israel) must have cheated somehow
b. any culture that is lagging (every muslim country) must have been victimized somehow.
Search “Evan Sayet” in youtube for an extremely insightful breakdown of this idea.
All the contradictions about liberals make sense once you understand this.May 6, 2015 7:33 pm at 7:33 pm #1076855feivelParticipant
Thank you ca!
Actually I was demodded much more than a year ago I think.
The memory is still painful.
My therapist is very careful not to use the words “delete” or “edit” in our sessions.
He once said; “topic closed” causing me a week in the hospital psych ward.May 8, 2015 10:35 am at 10:35 am #1076856BarryLS1Participant
kfb: The leftist are only tolerant of those that agree with them. They favor free speech only when it’s their views. They are the radical leftist marxist of the Viet Nam era protest movements, not mainstream liberalism, which no longer exists.
The Left supported Israel prior to 1967. What changed is that Israel was no longer perceived as the underdog. Those people don’t honestly evaluate things. It’s more an emotional response to issues without the knowledge base to go with it.
After the 6 day war, they perceived the Arabs as the underdog and took up their cause, despite not understanding that Islam would never tolerate any of them or their lifestyles.May 8, 2015 11:47 am at 11:47 am #1076857besalelParticipant
I believe there is an entirely different reason. They are pro Islam because they are anti Jews. They are anti Jews because they simply are anti Jews (or they are anti God). There is no reason for anti-Semitism, it just is. But the anti-Semites have had other covers which they used for anti Semitism discredited and so they can no longer use nationalism, communism, etc as their cover because that is passe. So they flock to the one sanctuary where they feel their anti semitism can flourish without worry: the left. at this new home they can cover their anti semitism as anti zionism. once this too will become passe they will flock somewhere else and everyone will ask something like “why are all environmentalist pro islam” and the answer will remain the same.May 8, 2015 2:45 pm at 2:45 pm #1076858
basically you’re saying not all left wingers are anti semites, but rather all anti semites are left wingers
the op asked why are the left wing anti semitesMay 8, 2015 2:48 pm at 2:48 pm #1076859nfgo3Member
I see thirteen responses to the opening poster’s question, and all responses appear to come from persons who are not leftists or left leaners. Would anyone like to hear from someone who actually leans left? I will give you one hint of what a left leaner might say, for starters: not all left leaners are still beating their wives.May 8, 2015 3:05 pm at 3:05 pm #1076860Avi KParticipant
Akuperma, how are Orthodox Jews left wing on Economics and if so, why? The highest form of tzedaka is to provide a person with a productive job and not just throw a money at him – and the Shach says (Yoreh Deah 249:7) that this is because being that the giver also profits the recipient is not embarrassed at all. The free market does this best. Moreover, Halacha presumes that businesses and property are private, the principle that tanai b’mamon kayam is based on the right of a person to do with his money as he pleases.May 8, 2015 3:09 pm at 3:09 pm #1076861besalelParticipant
in response to nfgo3 and coffee: I consider myself a progressive liberal (i voted for obama). And no, not all leftists are anti Semites. quite the opposite is true, true liberals are against misogynist, racist and homophobic organizations like radical islam.May 8, 2015 3:55 pm at 3:55 pm #1076862MDGParticipant
“2. The Muslim worlds is very left-wing in economics (as are orthodox Jews), and for the most part ignore racial and ethnic boundaries.”
They are left wing in spending other peoples money on them, i.e. mooching on the system. If/when they have money they don’t freely distribute it.
Arabs are racist. THe koran has been edited, but it used to have nasty comments about blacks.
Many Charaidi school have quotas against Sefaradim. Many Sefaradim went OTD when they came to E”Y because they could not get into religious schools due to quotas, and the zionists were too happy to get their clutches on them.May 8, 2015 5:09 pm at 5:09 pm #1076863
i see neither nfgo nor besalel really read my post
what i was saying is newbee asked, why is the left wing pro islam? meaning every person in the left wing
what besalel said was “So they flock to the one sanctuary where they feel their anti semitism can flourish without worry: the left.”
meaning that not all people on the left are however anti semites found their way thereMay 8, 2015 5:20 pm at 5:20 pm #1076864
@nfsgo3: I’m interested.May 8, 2015 6:56 pm at 6:56 pm #1076865Rebbe YidParticipant
I assume the OP meant the extreme Left. Certainly, the run of the mill left of center liberals, like most of the US Congress, are hardly pro-Islam.May 8, 2015 7:23 pm at 7:23 pm #1076866
like most of the US Congress, are hardly pro-Islam.
like hillary, who kissed suha arafat?
like wasserman-schultz, who is obama’s spokeswoman?
like pelosi, who said netanyahu insulted her?
like who?May 8, 2015 8:01 pm at 8:01 pm #1076867Amil ZolaParticipant
I’m pretty far left wing, and registered simply to respond to this post. I live in a community with a very diverse population here in the US. Muslims are my neighbors and members of my community. Just like Jews or any other religious group there are individuals who are more modern. My small town has two mosques. One rather conservative and one considerably more modern.
I don’t support fundamentalists of any kind, be they Jews, Xtians, or Moslems. The voice of moderate and modern Mulims is not something that is heard, esp. when it comes to frum publications. I’m pro human.May 8, 2015 8:41 pm at 8:41 pm #1076868
The voice of moderate and modern Mulims is not something that is heard, esp. when it comes to frum publications.
is it heard in regards to any publications? can you tell me their names (the publications or the people themselves)?
do they have message boards where moderate muslims defend jews?
i know the son of the leader of hamas is one, but he converted to christianity so any other names?May 8, 2015 8:56 pm at 8:56 pm #1076869
@coffee addict: They exist. After the charlie hebdo attack there were plenty of Muslim persons coming out on social media condemning the extremists. There was also that “peace ring” of 20 Muslims. (or 20 thousand according to stupid media)May 8, 2015 9:02 pm at 9:02 pm #1076870Amil ZolaParticipant
Where I live, which as I have said, is an area with a modern Muslim population, we do see news coverage on a local and state wide basis. There are sites on the internet, Patheos for instance, where their voices are heard as well, the religion section of Huffpo also reports on MMs, sometimes Mojo. Those are three international sites you can search for their reportage.
As to message boards where MMs defend Jews, I’ve never done the Google, it’s never been a concern of mine. But since it is your concern you may want to consider doing the Google and seeing what the results are. Report back with your findings ok?May 8, 2015 10:42 pm at 10:42 pm #1076871akupermaParticipant
Avi K (on Jews being left wing in terms of economics)-
We have a “welfare state” mentality – under halacha, the community had a duty to help the poor – the Beis Din could order you to give more tsadakah when needed. Communities heavily taxed individuals to support the poor. This is unlike the goyim who until the 20th century considered welfare to be something that was none of the government’s business. Whether in Israel or America, Jews take naturally to the idea that the poor should be helped, and that explains why we tend to be comfortable with the left-wing position on government welfare, entitlements, etc.
The traditional conservative position was that giving tsadakah deprived the poor of an incentive to work and created dependency – and therefore one shouldn’t give them anything since it would hurt them in the long run. This was part of the “protestant ethic” in western culture but is alien to our culture. Indeed, one can argue that the introduction of public welfare and the many entitlement programs was an example of Jewish influence in America.May 10, 2015 1:57 am at 1:57 am #1076872
i tried to google muslem message board defending jews couldnt find anything,
not sure what to google here and not interested in going to a muslem website to see the anti semitism to find a few supporting?
not sure what i’m supposed to be doing hereMay 10, 2015 2:34 am at 2:34 am #1076874
The traditional conservative position was that giving tsadakah deprived the poor of an incentive to work and created dependency – and therefore one shouldn’t give them anything since it would hurt them in the long run. This was part of the “protestant ethic” in western culture but is alien to our culture. Indeed, one can argue that the introduction of public welfare and the many entitlement programs was an example of Jewish influence in America.
that isn’t true, the torah talks about not being a slave to the master, due to a sense of dependency (eved ivri)
the torah says aseih shabascha k’chol v’al titzarech l’briyos
additionally, the highest form of tzedakah is giving a person a job, and not a snese of dependancy
democrats are for community support (forcing people through tax to give tzedakah) while republicans are for individual support (tax breaks for charitable contributions)May 10, 2015 4:06 pm at 4:06 pm #1076875
Militant Islam is most similar to Nazism.
Militant Leftism is most similar to Communism.
Both were very bad for the Jews.
Germany and Russia had a truce for as long as it suited them.May 10, 2015 4:37 pm at 4:37 pm #1076876Avi KParticipant
Who says that they were “heavily” taxed? In fact, individuals have an obligation not to burden the community. Rambam says (Hilchot Mattanot Aniim 10:18)
????? ????? ??? ????, ??????? ????, ??? ????? ???????, ??? ????? ??? ???? ?? ??????; ??? ???? ????? ?????, ??? ???? ????, ??? ????? ???????. ?????? ??? ??? ??????, ?????–????? ???????, ?????? ??????? ??????; ??? ????? ???????: ???? ???? ????? ??????? ????, ??? ???? ???, ??? ??? ????? ??? ????? ???, ???????; ???? ???? ?????.
Even captives should not be redeemed for more than their value so as not to burden the community (Yam shel Sholomo, Gittin 4:66).
Chazal certainly would not have approved of a system that rewards breaking up families and promiscuous behavior.May 10, 2015 9:31 pm at 9:31 pm #1076877yytzParticipant
The (far) left is not totally pro-Islam, in that they do not actually promote the teachings of the religion or its extremist groups like Al Qaeda. However, they tend to play down the Islamist terrorist threat (which is understandable to a degree because fortunately there really isn’t much terrorism in the US, and starting random wars as in Iraq actually increased terrorism), and much worse, support Palestinian terror groups.
They do this because in the current left-wing mindset, a group perceived as an underdog cannot really be wrong. Any criticism of any underdog is seen as “blaming the victim.” Violent minorities must always be right, or at least deserving of sympathy and excuse-making, while those seen as the upper-dog, the US or Israel (which they see as a European colonial project) are always critiqued harshly.
Even though most of the Palestinian propoganda is lies, and can be proven is such, the far left is not interested in listening to debunkers. They uncritically accept basically all anti-Israel rhetoric, because it goes along with their bizarre upside-down narrative of the Palestians as innocent underdogs who just want to live normal lives and the Israelis as the worst, most bloodthirsty European colonialists ever.May 11, 2015 3:34 pm at 3:34 pm #1076878nfgo3Member
Re newbee’s comment: You forgot something: Many parts of a pine tree are edible.May 11, 2015 4:19 pm at 4:19 pm #1076879
nfgo3: care to elaborate???
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