WHY LABEL

because everyone is so self centered and thinks their the best and only what they do is right. people dont think of others besides themselves

I think that some Jews have a need to label other Jews, because they identify with a specific hashkafa, and want to recognize others sharing that hashkafa. I don’t think that in and of itself it is a bad thing. It becomes bad when people use the labels to exclude others or deride them. But I know that I personally feel more comfortable when in an environment consisting of Modern Orthodox machmir Jews who see nothing wrong in sitting at a mixed table at a simcha (though there should eb a mechitzah for dancing purposes), than when I am with a more Litvishe, yeshivish crowd. I am friendly to everyone I meet (or at least I try to be), but my preference is what it is. Sometimes the labels are necessary, in order to ensure that shidduchim are not being redd to people who have nothing in common. Sometimes the labels are meaningless, because different people understand things in non-identical ways. What I call modern frum, may not be what you call modern frum. You might feel it is a woman who wears pants, or a man who wears a knit kippah. I might simply mean a girl who covers her hair after marriage, davens everyday, but is college and post-grad educated, and wants the same in her husband. Everything is relative and very subjective.

depends who is asking

regular typical black-hat to ultra greasy, anti materialism. that’s how i’d put it.

i did not mean anything negative at all. moderator – if you have a better choice of words, by all means, change it.

opinionatedbubby: there is no answer to your question, ask 100 people and you will most probably get 100 different definitions

and using areivim’s ratio, if those 100 ppl have 600 screen names between them that will become 3600 opinions from 100 people.

basically what your saying charlie is, that the whole CF could really be one person with 600 screen names.

Since there are only 6 posters (including areivim) we should only get 36 opinions out of the CR. Which sounds about right, and approximately one per user name, based on recent experience.

Labeling just comes automatically and its not necesserally a bad thing either.

The labeling is not the bad thing. It’s just a fact of life that some people are more Orthodox and some less. Rather it’s the attitude to these “labeled” people that upsets me. Were all equals and brothers (& sisters) at the end of the day so lets behave like that. Spreading Ahavas Chinom won’t do anyone any harm…

No, the labeling itself is bad and indeed destructive.

jewess – you took sociology? it goes into all that when discussion stereotypes, prejudice and racism. (all very different but there is a common thread)

notpashut- couldn’t have said it better myelf (this is the first time i’m “taking sides” in the CR. i’m gonna need therapy after this is over)

Wolf/notpashut,

The label itself connotes a rejectionist attitude.

You asked “If someone says I’m a white american jewish new yorker flatbush guy black hatter yeshivishe litvak, did he label me or did he just say who I am?” And each of those attributes excludes — i.e. implicitly, in a subtle sense, excludes — others “not like” you. Saying you are “Jewish” is a good exclusionary attribute, the others are not.

Labels like Orthodox, Chiloni, religious, modern orthodox, etc. are divisive and destructive to Jewish unity. A Jew may keep the Torah, may keep most of the Torah, may keep part of the Torah, etc. but they all are still Jews — and only Jews. Perhaps a Jew in need of improvement, but a Jew (and only a Jew) nonetheless.

squeak: thats not labeling. Hashem made that

An additional reason labels are dangerous, is that it legitimizes the illegitimate. Gee, I’m “left-wing modern-orthodox” and “my gedolim” are okay with mixed swimming. Or I’m “right-wing modern orthodox” and “my gedolim” oppose mixed swimming but are okay with lax tznius. etc. (Don’t get too hooked up on the examples; its the point that is important.)

u got it jewess!

And as for the yeshivish, it used to mean if the father had a rosh yeshiva, but now people are just labeling stam even if the kids are not at all like the parents

Omigosh!!

Wolf, Sjs, & myself AGREE?? Double shot indeed!!

It’s a good thing Rabbiofberlin hasn’t agreed as well otherwise I think we’d need to do something REALLY special to celebrate.

Joseph,

“Labels like Orthodox, Chiloni, religious, modern orthodox, etc. are divisive and destructive to Jewish unity.”

It’s not the label that’s divisive & destructive, it’s the way people use them.

The label itself, as I said, is just a description of who you are.

i feel that a person’s view of labeling reflects the way he/she conducts his/her life and his/her view of self (i can’t sit and type out my entire analysis- that’s just the conclusion)

I have never met a “left leaning Rabbi” that aren’t makpid about mixed swimming, tznius, etc. This is just right wing foolishness that doesnt understand the difference between halacha and how one practices halacha.

Anyway, why was my response about satmar deleted? I don’t think it was offensive at all. I’ll try rewording it, so here goes:

Satmar women do not learn tanach directly – they learn summaries in yiddish IIRC. So, they wouldn’t know a direct quote from Tanach.

~a~, I don’t think that there’s anyone who doesn’t need to hear a good thing about themselves once in a while.

Well fielded, Joseph!

<clears a path for charlie brown and areivim to enter>