Why People Don’t Go Through Beis Din

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Viewing 13 posts - 1 through 13 (of 13 total)
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  • #1616691

    1
    Participant

    How impartial can a beis din be when one party has a relationship with the court by hiring its services. There are many examples of a powerful powerful figure colluding with a beis din of which one of the dayanim has a relationship with, over a powerless person. Some frum companies make you sign a contract that says, “I agree to take up disputes with a court that we alrrady have a relationship with.” How’s that not sketchy?

    #1616987

    Joseph
    Participant

    Rav Moshe paskens that today in communities that do not have a single Beis Din that has authority over the entire community (which includes the vast majority of non-Chasidish communities around the world) either party has the right to insist on using a zabla Beis Din where each party to the dispute chooses one Dayan and the two chosen Dayanim choose the third Dayan.

    In general when the plaintiff opens a Beis Din case he can utilize any Beis Din to file it with against the defendant. But once the defendant gets the hazmana he can respond to it and state he’s choosing a different Beis Din to adjudicate the case.

    Of course if both parties had agreed in advance before their transaction that they’ll use such-and-such Beis Din in case there’s a dispute, they’re bound to stick to using that Beis Din. But I don’t see how any frum company can force you to sign such an agreement in advance. You can always refuse to agree to that before you do business with them or if necessary choose to do business with another company.

    #1617037

    1
    Participant

    “You can always refuse to agree to that before you do business with them or if necessary choose to do business with another company.”
    That still doesn’t mean that the company has an impartial relationship with a beis din.

    #1617065

    Joseph
    Participant

    Make sure you check out who a Beis Din is, and any potential conflict of interests, before you agree to use that Beis Din.

    #1617155

    1
    Participant

    Theres already a conflict of interest if a company has a designated beis din. We aren’t living in the days of the shoftim.

    #1617442

    Joseph
    Participant

    So don’t agree or sign an agreement to use that Beis Din.

    #1617465

    1
    Participant

    It also happens in an employer-employee relationship

    #1617492

    Joseph
    Participant

    The employee doesn’t have to sign the agreement; alternatively he can choose to not work there. That said, I’ve never seen an employee agreement (outside Israel) that specifies a Beis Din in advance. It probably exists but is likely quite rare in the U.S.

    #1617466

    akuperma
    Participant

    1. Very few cases can be dealt with solely by a Beis Din. You have an accident (a common source of litigation), there will usually be non-Jewish insurance companies involved. You engage in a standard commercial transaction, it probably involves non-Jewish credit card issuers and banks. Family law matters almost always involve non-Jewish agencies who have to sign off on parts of the transactions. Any deal that has a tax impact (and what doesn’t), the IRS and the state and local tax authorities are necessary parties to resolve the matter.
    Most real world litigation involves matters governed by “Dina Malcusha Dina”, which means the case is subject to the goyim’s law.

    #1617766

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    How am I and my children supposed to make a living if you all run to a Beis Din?
    I recommend one when appropriate and seek to have its ruling entered to the civil action.

    #1617768

    nishtdayngesheft
    Participant

    I’ve never seen an agreement that specifies a specific Beis Din, but I guess it can exist. But that doesn’t neccesarily mean there is something underhanded going on. It may just mean that they don’t want a run around to decide on a Beis din.

    I have seen a number of agreements that specify specific arbitration groups. I’ve seen these in contracts that had no Jewish parties. Do you assert the same allegations in such cases or do you limit it to botei din?

    #1617779

    1
    Participant

    I know a specific firm in name that stipulates in its service and employment contracts that they agree to take up any disputes only with a specific beis din. It’s not enforceable by law, but it’s enough to scare disadvantaged employees, coming right out of school. It’s a well-known company, as well.

    #1617828

    akuperma
    Participant

    CTLAWYER: In the past, a Beis Din would refer parties to an attorney for arbitration when the dispute was one solely governed by the goyim’s law. You could probably turn it into a profit center.

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