June 21, 2021 8:40 am at 8:40 am #1984871Yabia OmerParticipant
If פסח is spelled with a Segol who do people pronounce it Peysach?June 21, 2021 10:55 am at 10:55 am #1984946beisyosefParticipant
Also, if it’s spelled שלש סעודות why do ppl say Shala Shudis? Besides, why are all three put into that one seudah? Whyaren’t we like our sephardic bretheren who say seudah shelishit?June 21, 2021 10:55 am at 10:55 am #1984945beisyosefParticipant
If משה is spelled with a holom why do ppl say Moyshe?June 21, 2021 10:57 am at 10:57 am #1984930akupermaParticipant
Vowel shift. Common among all living languagues. Also remember that most English speakers of Hebrew are descended from Yiddish speakers, and Yiddish since it was largely an oral language (Yidden spoke Yiddish, but wrote in Hebrew) was more likely to have vowel shifting.
Note that Ha-Shem and Moshe refrained from including International Phonetic Alphabet notation, and did not include a sound recording of how Hebrew is supposed to be pronounced.June 21, 2021 10:59 am at 10:59 am #1984933
It’s the Yiddish translation of the passover holiday. It is the same reason for many other commonly used phrases in the Orthodox world that have no source in classical Judaism or are simply grammatical errors
Shaloch manos (as opposed to Meshloach manos)
chanukah mesiba (as opposed to mesibas chanuka)
I am sure the oilam can add to the list…June 21, 2021 11:02 am at 11:02 am #1984963ujmParticipant
Gut Yuntif!June 21, 2021 11:49 am at 11:49 am #1984966HaKatanParticipant
As others have noted, it’s a result of Yiddish language infiltration into lashon haKodesh.
When speaking conversationally, it’s perfectly fine to speak Yiddish or any other language. But, when davening, Lashon haKodesh should be used without mixing in Yiddish into that pronunciation of Lashon haKodesh.June 21, 2021 11:49 am at 11:49 am #1984970lowerourtuition11210Participant
beisyosef:is it a cholom or a choylom?June 21, 2021 11:49 am at 11:49 am #1984971BaltimoreMavenParticipant
Shalosh seudos does include all 3. See Torah Temima on the relevant possuk. The Gemora explains that by eating 3 seudos on Shabbos we are saved from 3 types of tzaar, namely the war of Gog and Magog, the fire of Gehinom and the birthpangs of Moshiach.
He says that Leil Shabbos we don’t really get schar because we are so hungry. Same for Shabbos day seuda. But SS, especially in the winter, is difficult and since we put ourselves through tzaar, Hashem saves us from tzaar.June 21, 2021 1:36 pm at 1:36 pm #1984984
Shalosh seudas rather than seuda shlishis is to emphasize its importance. When eating the third meal at raveh the raveh, a great eis ratzon, as the day of shabbos increases in kedusha, so the third meal when a person is not as hungry, eating lashem shomayim, weighs in greatness against all three meals.June 21, 2021 1:58 pm at 1:58 pm #1984988
Shabbos morning is called kedusha rabba. Explains tne Chasam Sofer that the kedusha increases in the morning over the night and so on. We say vo, voy and wom. We can explain this with the Tur that the three tefilos of shabbos are against three shabbosim. Friday night is against shabbos bereishis, of creation. The morning is kabolas hatorah and mincha is yom shekula shabbos, the time of techiyas hamesim.June 21, 2021 2:35 pm at 2:35 pm #1984991
Lowerourtuition-It is clearly a cholam. Take a look a this week’s parsha perek 24 pasuk 11. Look at the word “Oyvai” which has a cholam and also a yud. If all cholams were pronounced as “oy” there would be no need for the yud. According to the yeshivishe/chasidishe way of pronouncing things that would mean there is an extra letter in the Torah.June 21, 2021 2:37 pm at 2:37 pm #1984993
Stick that in your cholent pot and let it stew!June 21, 2021 4:24 pm at 4:24 pm #1985033Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipant
when a sefer becomes a personal name, should we use it correctly? Maybe, when the naming happened during their lifetime? There were no such people as Beis Yosef or Chafetz Chaim – only Beit Yosef and Chofetz Chaim …
It is amazing how well written Hebrew survived comparing with Oral (and with other languages). Maybe the point is that we can see how reliable written tradition is comparing with Oral. I may not be able to converse with someone from Munkach, whatever country it is, but I can read Rambam (in Hebrew translation)June 21, 2021 8:44 pm at 8:44 pm #1985073lowerourtuition11210Participant
always ask questions: What do you do with the passuk “ME HAISH HEHCHAFETZ CHAYIM” (TEHILLIM 34:13)?June 22, 2021 12:43 am at 12:43 am #1985089theywnreaderParticipant
I’ve also wondered about the pronunciation of peysach. Interesting that when referring to the korban most people say korban pesach, while referring to the yom tov they say peysach.June 22, 2021 12:44 am at 12:44 am #1985090Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipant
lowerourtuition – a good question. How do you think Isroel Meier HaCohen would say it?
btw, NYT obituary says Chofetz, they should know! NYT wished him long life so much, they listed his as 105, not 95.June 22, 2021 1:20 am at 1:20 am #1985101ParticipantParticipant
and chasidim say “paysach” …you’d think it was a tzeirei.
@aaq “chafetz” or “chofetz” you mean ashkenaz pronunciation versus sefardic?June 22, 2021 10:47 am at 10:47 am #1985228
Why do the litvishe say a choylam like cheilam an ei? Every natinality has their own dialect like the chassidishe cow says mee an ei is an ay.June 22, 2021 3:22 pm at 3:22 pm #1985284
The holy Berditchever explains why we called it Chag Hapesach even though the Torah calls it Chag Hamatzos because we emphasize the greatnes of Hashem and He emphasizes our greatness. Similarly, I said, that succos we emphasize the ananei hakovad that shows the miracle Hashem provided instead of the tents we created.June 22, 2021 3:25 pm at 3:25 pm #1985272
Even Oberlander say peisach with a tzeirei instead a segol. I don’t know why but sometimes they switch like zecher rav tuvcha or zeicher rav tuvcha, I say both.June 30, 2021 9:25 am at 9:25 am #1987352
I believe when they say peysach, they are reminding themselves of the pasuk in tehillim kuf yud tes, so this way when they have conversations, they are still learning Torah…June 30, 2021 10:46 am at 10:46 am #1987393
DYK, can you elaborate on it, where in kuf yud tes?June 30, 2021 12:44 pm at 12:44 pm #1987451
Kuf yud tes goes in the order of aleph bes. The specific pasuk is “peysach divarecha yair meivin pisayim”. Yes, it is spelled a bit differently, but nothing wrong with people having conversations about two separate topics.June 30, 2021 12:44 pm at 12:44 pm #1987461
Pasuk kuf lamed. It is the only place in tanach that it says the word peysach. At least that’s the only place I noticed it. Anyone else read through all of tanach, or am I one of the few people crazy enough to do it? I would challenge anyone who hasn’t done so yet, to just lein all of tanach. You’d be surprised how much you can pick up in reading and comprehension.June 30, 2021 1:32 pm at 1:32 pm #1987475
This reminds me of a joke where a store keeper wanted to indicate he has kosher for pesach milk. Affer puting a sign out, people avoided his store. He wrote chalav kosher lapesach but wrote chalav with a chuf, kasher with a kuf and lapesach with a sof reading, kelev kasher lapesach, the dog is tied to the door.June 30, 2021 1:39 pm at 1:39 pm #1987476
On a more serious note, after 120, we are questioned about our life here on earth. In order to answer, we will remember everything that happened. Image what it’ll be like to come up there having leined all of tanach, in addition to Mishnah and Gemara? That should be a tremendous motivation to accomplish this feat.June 30, 2021 1:39 pm at 1:39 pm #1987477
Start a tractate with enlightenment. Meseches Brachos starts with Meimosai in targum rather than mimosai in lashon hakadosh to indicate that Hashem rests with people learning the talmud as the malachim don’t care for targum or according to the chasidim who say to recite krias shema from fear.July 4, 2021 1:47 pm at 1:47 pm #1988482
We also find by amolek, zecher and zeicher.July 5, 2021 12:01 am at 12:01 am #1988527GadolhadorahParticipant
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