May 24, 2016 1:34 am at 1:34 am #617744
Ever notice the engaged couples who post untzniusdig pictures of themselves when they announce their engagements on the popular Simcha Sites? It’s unreal that these couples unabashedly are showing the world that they are not Shomer Negia! What’s going on???May 24, 2016 2:51 am at 2:51 am #1153619
welcome to the new lower generation, where the kedusha is getting lower everyday.
1)what happened to the kedusha of a shul?-the place where you talk straight to Hashem-all the talking & texting someone while talking to the king o kings is that not insane?….
2)what happened to shabbos & its kedusha? today if a person kept 1 extra minute by mistake he feels he needs to get back that minute R”L when every minute i’m alive is a gift from Hashem
many other exapmles R”L
Welcome to the generation of living in instant-gratification & self-centeredness where everything is ME ME & ONLY MEMay 24, 2016 4:54 am at 4:54 am #1153620Avi KParticipant
What about the kedusha of business dealings? This is where the serious chillul Hashem exists.May 24, 2016 3:18 pm at 3:18 pm #1153621
Franco: I have wondered about that myself. I think it is both sad and nice (don’t lose me, I’ll explain) at the same time. It is certainly sad that we have so many people like that. And we should work so that our communities care more about it. But at the same time, people are engaged and it’s a Simcha and it’s nice that we are willing to celebrate with them and post whatever pictures they send in, even if it’s not a picture we would ever take ourselves (within reason, obviously). Can you imagine how hurt a couple would be if the sites refused to post their picture because they were touching each other?May 24, 2016 3:25 pm at 3:25 pm #1153622
The sites should at least pixelate the portion of the image where they are touching or are improperly clad (i.e. elbows/knees and above), if they don’t have the decency to not publish it.May 24, 2016 3:26 pm at 3:26 pm #1153623
and it’s nice that we are willing to celebrate with them and post whatever pictures they send in, even if it’s not a picture we would ever take ourselves (within reason, obviously). Can you imagine how hurt a couple would be if the sites refused to post their picture because they were touching each other?
That is the most perverse logic I’ve ever seen from you, Sam.
How untznius should we allow? (Don’t answer that).
Perhaps if frum society would not accept bad behavior, less would happen. We always say that (correctly) about abuse and fraud, why shouldn’t we say it about public pritzus? Is that not also a chillul Hashem?May 24, 2016 3:28 pm at 3:28 pm #1153624
a few years ago they did refuse pictures & the websites were just a list of Simchas with names & where from etc…. & nobody was insulted it was the condition & way of the website that we only list your info. with no pictures, so there was nothing for anyone to get insulted.
BOTTOM LINE: stop fooling & corrupting your mindMay 24, 2016 3:32 pm at 3:32 pm #1153625
Personally, posting everything online, no matter the pose, is a breach of tznius. Its one thing to share your simcha with your friends, its quite another to share it with cyberspace.May 24, 2016 3:43 pm at 3:43 pm #1153626
I agree with MA.
If you need to make a chillul Hashem and show pritzus “not to hurt people’s feelings”, don’t make a website or at least don’t post any pictures (YWN’ simcha listing doesn’t have pictures).May 24, 2016 3:44 pm at 3:44 pm #1153627
I should say a large portion of the blame belongs to these sites even when the images themselves are not pritzus. They frequently post simcha images with no permission from any of the baalei simcha. I’ve seen multiple times where the baalei simcha were upset to find their pictures on these sites.May 24, 2016 3:47 pm at 3:47 pm #1153628
The fault in those cases has to at least equally be shared with the “friends” who post without permission.May 24, 2016 4:00 pm at 4:00 pm #1153629feivelParticipant
“within reason, obviously”
Holding hands, and placing an arm on a shoulder is within reason!!
Who’s reason, the goyish velt?May 24, 2016 4:22 pm at 4:22 pm #1153630crgoParticipant
Personally, I think it’s a breach of tznius to put up pictures of girls looking as beautiful as they know how for the public to look at. Honestly, the few times that I looked at the site, I never once wondered about the more modern element who were touching – it didn’t even occur to me – but I always wondered what the chassidish/yeshivish/chareidim were thinking when they put they put their pictures up for the world to see. When I read the thread title – that’s what I thought this was going to address.May 24, 2016 4:41 pm at 4:41 pm #1153631golferParticipant
Could we please not have another ‘let’s-all-bash-people-who-are-less-observant-than-us’ threads? During sefira, no less?
There’s a very simple way not to be exposed to a lack of tznius on certain websites.
Problem solved.May 24, 2016 4:51 pm at 4:51 pm #1153632
Should we ignore public transgression of halacha and remain silent?May 24, 2016 4:57 pm at 4:57 pm #1153633eh100Participant
Those websites that show engaged couples touching are “choiti and Machti Es Harabim”. It shows younger girls and boys that it’s OK to touch when it’s actually a possible “Issur Deorysa” It’s simple as that.May 24, 2016 5:03 pm at 5:03 pm #1153634
Definitely not. The place to sound off though is not here.May 24, 2016 5:33 pm at 5:33 pm #1153635writersoulParticipant
These sites have their own clientele. YWN has a simcha section with just names, and plenty of people submit to these site with just names and a generic graphic- that’s really nice. But the sites advertise and thep people to whom they’re catering don’t care. Everyone has the option of not posting (most of my friends don’t). If they are posted against their will (as happened with my cousin, who was photographed with his kallah before they were engaged and posted without consent) they can complain and have it taken down. This is not a service or whatever that anyone has to use, and the wonderful thing about the internet is that it takes about thirty seconds to open a competing site al taharas hakodesh.May 24, 2016 5:48 pm at 5:48 pm #1153636lesschumrasParticipant
MA, what makes you think shul misbehavior is new? Dr Benjamin Rush, a signed of the Declaration of Independence, was invited in 1787 to a wedding held at the Spanish and Portuguese synagogue. In a,letter to his wife, he noted to his surprise that , during a service ( mincha ) held prior, a group of men were discussing business all during the serviceMay 24, 2016 6:05 pm at 6:05 pm #1153637flowersParticipant
>>Definitely not. The place to sound off though is not here.<<
Why not?May 24, 2016 6:15 pm at 6:15 pm #1153638
“they can complain and have it taken down”
By then it was shared on facebook dozens of times, tweeted and retweeted many times so taking it down is largely a moot point by then.May 24, 2016 6:33 pm at 6:33 pm #1153639old manParticipant
I cannot in any way justify the posting of these pictures. It strongly implies that what is shown is permissible.May 24, 2016 6:58 pm at 6:58 pm #1153641
Well what I was referring to specifically is that the couples are very obviously touching each other in the pictures…I think there’s a much bigger problem here that many are neglecting to address. Why is it that these frum couples not not don’t seem to know the Halachos of Negia, but they don’t even realize to be ashamed to show the world publicly that your not Shomer Negia! Can it be they don’t know it’s Assur? Do they not care? Which? And why do they think it’s fine to show the world their aveiros (assuming in worst case scenario that they’re aware they’re sinning!)??? I’m puzzled, and of course, the Simcha sites should indeed make a rule that only pictures that are tzniusdig and conform with Halacha will be posted!May 24, 2016 7:33 pm at 7:33 pm #1153642
“the Simcha sites should indeed make a rule that only pictures that are tzniusdig and conform with Halacha will be posted!”
Im not a Rav, or a posek, but this assumes halacha permits pictures altogether, does it?May 24, 2016 7:33 pm at 7:33 pm #1153643feivelParticipant
They never thought about it. In their circles men and women shake hands and even hug. They assume shomer negia to be a chumra, practiced by the “ultra-orthodox”. They never learned the Halacha. They just behave as is customary among their peers.May 24, 2016 7:47 pm at 7:47 pm #1153644zahavasdadParticipant
The Simcha Sites might not know who is married , Who are siblings etc
Only the people in the photographs would know thatMay 24, 2016 7:53 pm at 7:53 pm #1153646
The assumption is that when you see an engagement announcement and a picture of a young couple, they are not brother and sister, but the chosson and kallah.May 24, 2016 7:59 pm at 7:59 pm #1153647mazal77Participant
Can not verify if it is true, but a couple asked for their picture to be taken off, and they were told they had to pay the site to take it down. I think that some form of blackmail.
Honestly the Simcha sites should only post pictures with direct permission from the Couple. I am sure a vast majority of the pictured couples would never agree to have their pictures posted on the simcha sites. Those pictures will be on the web forever.May 24, 2016 8:13 pm at 8:13 pm #1153648
just because its been going on for a long time or because you see someone else sinning that does not permit you to sin C”V
BOTTOM LINE: talking in shul in front of the king of kings… involved MANY AVEIROS including a sin of kavod makom hamikdosh & fearing Hashem & many other sins etc….May 24, 2016 9:17 pm at 9:17 pm #1153649
DY and feivel: I won’t go into detail, but I think a fair Chiluk is whether the picture can in any way be considered provocative (mods, if you want to replace that word with another one by all means feel free; I just can’t think of a better one for this situation). Without giving examples to the other side, I think it would be fair to publish the hand-holding pictures or where there is slight touching because those are not pictures that would cause Hirhurim in people who view it. If there were pictures that would, then obviously they should not be published.
and feivel, a Chareidi Rabbi told someone I know in 6th grade that being Shomer Negiyah was just a Chumra. I don’t know what his Cheshbon was in saying that or whether he was just an extreme Am Ha’aretz, but to this day I have not forgiven him for letting that girl’s entire class think that it wasn’t really a thing.May 24, 2016 9:53 pm at 9:53 pm #1153650nishtdayngesheftParticipant
Unless the Rebbi was talking about people below Bar Mitzvah, then by definition he is not “chareidi”.
The story is not really believable.May 25, 2016 1:41 am at 1:41 am #1153651
I don’t think you’re understanding what type of people are posting the pics on these sites…,these are not strictly “modern orthodox!” These are yeshivish people (I know some of their families) who should know better, have been taught better!May 25, 2016 1:42 am at 1:42 am #1153652
I’m afraid you too are unaware of how these sites work, They most certainly do know that the couples aren’t yet married, as they have them listed as ENGAGED!!!May 25, 2016 1:44 am at 1:44 am #1153653
How can you say the hand holding is ok when it’s clearly assur and will allow others to think its permissible???May 25, 2016 2:09 am at 2:09 am #1153654writersoulParticipant
Look. This isn’t a community notifications bulletin. This is a business site. It thrives on the advertisements it posts for the kinds of people who read it. It then posts pictures of simchos to attract people. In order to attract as many people as possible, it posts all the pictures it gets. I know people who have had both types of pictures- the up-close-and-personal and the separated-by-a-flower-arrangement- and their one unifying factor is that someone posted them both to SimchaSpot and therefore their pictures were posted so that these two very disparate groups could both benefit from their advertising. They currently have no incentive not to post. If there were a mass yeshivish/chassidish ban and boycott, perhaps they would get the message and move in one direction or another (toward or away from the RW market, depending on which was more lucrative) but right now why should they choose to do anything different?May 25, 2016 2:20 am at 2:20 am #1153655
but right now why should they choose to do anything different?
To avoid Be’er Shachas.May 25, 2016 2:45 am at 2:45 am #1153656kapustaParticipant
You can vote with the unfollow button (and still check if you must) or by telling their advertisers that until they find other places to advertise, you will find other places to shop.May 25, 2016 4:08 am at 4:08 am #1153657
nisht: I wouldn’t believe the story myself but I was there. I was shocked and, like I said, I have no idea what his Cheshbon was. I won’t name him, but I still don’t get it.
Franco: I’m not saying it’s okay. Chas Veshalom.
As to the Taana that people might see this and think it’s okay, I don’t really hear it. Anyone with any modicum of Halachic knowledge knows it’s not okay. The fact that people are dishonestly Moreh Heter with themselves doesn’t change that.May 25, 2016 4:12 am at 4:12 am #1153658big dealParticipant
Sam, I strongly disagree with you. Every time one of these pictures that are not tznius is posted, a little more of our senses are dulled. You have enough of this going on and eventually it gets to a point where it’s ok and normal. And then every couple will need to have such a picture.May 25, 2016 4:15 am at 4:15 am #1153659big dealParticipant
There are, unfortunately, some halachos that aren’t properly followed because of the herd mentality. Why stick it in people’s faces?May 25, 2016 3:14 pm at 3:14 pm #1153660
>>The place to sound off though is not here.<< Why not?<<
Because the photos in question are over there. The owners/editors of the sites that post and host these photos are the ones who can effect a change, not the owners of this site. By reading and commenting on this site, you help the owners of this site generate ad revenue with increased eyeballs. People are typically motivated by fear, or money and they are especially motivated by the fear of losing money. If you let the owners of those sites know that they will lose readership (and ad dollars) because they post and host material that is not appropriate they will respond, unless they specifically have an agenda they are looking to push and could care less about ad revenue (would you want to be part of such a site?).May 25, 2016 3:14 pm at 3:14 pm #1153661gavra_at_workParticipant
Why the lack of Tznius on Internet Simcha sites?!
Same reason “Why the lack of Tznius on people’s walls”, where many people show pictures of themselves in an intimate pose with their spouse. The internet is an extension of one’s wall.May 25, 2016 3:59 pm at 3:59 pm #1153662HealthParticipant
Sam2 -“I was shocked and, like I said, I have no idea what his Cheshbon was.”
I know what he’s thinking – he’s MO!May 25, 2016 4:48 pm at 4:48 pm #1153663ApragerParticipant
‘???? ?.May 25, 2016 11:22 pm at 11:22 pm #1153664mw13Participant
Im am not at all trying to justify the posting of pictures of people violating Halacha; but if you see pictures that bother you on a particular website, the most obvious response is to stop looking at that website.May 26, 2016 7:15 pm at 7:15 pm #1153665lesschumrasParticipant
MA, you missed my point. Of course it’s not right. But , unlike what you implied ( ” what has happened “) it’s simply not new behaviour.May 26, 2016 7:57 pm at 7:57 pm #1153666cinderellaParticipant
You don’t want to see it- don’t look.May 26, 2016 8:31 pm at 8:31 pm #1153667nishtdayngesheftParticipant
You were there in the sixth grade?May 27, 2016 3:27 pm at 3:27 pm #1153668Shopping613 🌠Participant
Why would someone want a picture of them to be on the web at all? I don’t understand the whole idea. What are you trying to show off and to whom? Why should everyone see what you look like? It’s just a guf.
Secular society influences us too much.
I actually believe the couples holding hands SHOULD be on those simcha sites. If there are not shomer negiah than obviously posting on their social media is probably a daily occurrence. While the pictures of so called “frummer” couples wouldn’t be on the web in the first place if they are so “frum”.
I uderstand pictures may get up there by other people but why is that happening? Make sure to tell everyone before that there are no pictures being posted online. Perhaps put up a sign outside the girls house that everyone can see while they walk in for the l’chaim. If you really care about something you’ll put up some sort of barrier.
Also, it’s illegal to put pictures up of someone that were taken in a private area (your own house) when there are signs or you have verbally told the people there not to do so.May 27, 2016 3:45 pm at 3:45 pm #1153669zahavasdadParticipant
Many times professional photographers take pictures and you sign that they have the right to use the photographs in commerical places
Many other times these photos are taken by friends, You are not going to sue your friend
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