August 21, 2012 10:45 am at 10:45 am #604636Ragachovers AssistantMember
“Rabbi?” One student asked half-serious,”Will Moshiach Cancel My Credit Card Debt?”
That joke resulted in some laughter, but also in a 20-minute lecture about how Moshiach’s coming was not about the easy way out of responsibility. In fact, the rabbi added for good measure, “You’ll probably still have to pay off your debts, but,” he said with a big grin on his face, “you’ll do it with a smile on your face.”
(From “Not Just Another Scenario”, by Pinchas Winston – page 276)August 22, 2012 12:21 am at 12:21 am #892309
Does it not say that the nochorim will willingly make themselves available to freely serve Yidden, after Moshiach comes
(and will actually fight over the honor of who will be able to serve them)?August 22, 2012 2:02 am at 2:02 am #892310
Englishman: The Rambam certainly doesn’t hold that.August 22, 2012 2:15 am at 2:15 am #892311
Sam: You can always find some shitta somewhere to knock off almost most of anything.August 22, 2012 2:23 am at 2:23 am #892312
Englishman: The Rambam is not “some Shittah somewhere”. More often than not, we hold like him. But that wasn’t my point. It could very well be that the Rambam’s Shittah on Y’mos Hamashiach is not the one we Pasken by. But people have an almost mythical expectation for what Y’mos Hamashiach are like. And maybe that will be what they are like. But it needs to be pointed out that there is a major Shittah that says something very different.August 22, 2012 2:39 am at 2:39 am #892313KozovMember
Sam: Please provide the source.
By the way, the Rambam says there will be no hunger so to say there will be no debt would make sense too. The question is how. He also says delicacies will be found like dirt is.August 22, 2012 2:48 am at 2:48 am #892314HaLeiViParticipant
Sam, there is nothing unnatural about the most basic element of Moshiach — the recognition by all nations of the greatness of Hashem, the truth of His Torah, and the people he chose.
As I pointed out in the past, the point of Shmuel, and the Rambam, is that the laws of nature will not be different. The Hatzlacha and Hashgacha Protis, at least on the level that it was during the time of the Nevi’im, is not disputed. Don’t forget that Moshiach is the greatest Navi, and a Navi is proven with Nissim. That doesn’t mean the laws of nature will be abolished.August 22, 2012 3:06 am at 3:06 am #892315
Exactly. There is nothing unnatural about the gentiles wanting all to become slaves in order to serve G-d, by serving G-d’s people in their service to G-d. That, in fact, is the most natural desire any gentile can have once he sees the truth and the light of G-d via Moshiach. And there is no Rambam disputing any of that.August 22, 2012 3:12 am at 3:12 am #892316
HaLeiVi: The Rambam doesn’t hold of Hashgacha Pratis in the way that it’s normally thought either though.August 22, 2012 4:26 am at 4:26 am #892317KozovMember
Haleivi: Its difficult to say the Rambam holds the same as Shmuel. See Lechem Mishna Tshuva 8 7.August 22, 2012 5:12 am at 5:12 am #892318Avi KParticipant
Rambam says the opposite. In fact, we do not even want them to serve us (Hilchot Melachim 12:4).August 22, 2012 5:32 am at 5:32 am #892319Josh31Participant
It could be day zero: offer Korbon Pesach
Night one: eat it along with Matza, Marror and Chagiga
days 1-7 (except Shabbos) other personal offerings
Night two: chol Hamoed
night 7: one last day of full yom tov
day 8: back to workAugust 22, 2012 7:48 am at 7:48 am #892320HaLeiViParticipant
The Rambam uses Siluk Hashgacha as an Onesh. That allows for natural causes to harm the person to the extent that he deserves. This is perfectly in sync with what Chazal say about Me’elyon Lo Tetze Hara’os. But this is not really relavent.August 22, 2012 12:57 pm at 12:57 pm #892321ChortkovParticipant
I really don’t know a mekor for this, but doesn’t it say somewhere that the snakes will get there feet back when moshiach comes and each person will have two snakes – one to do cleaning and household duties and the other to go to faraway lands to get him gems and precious metals?
[Dunno what’s going to happen to the economy if everybody suddenly has loads of money, but i can;t wait to see!!!]August 22, 2012 1:02 pm at 1:02 pm #892322yaakov doeParticipant
Depends on which card. AMEX say yes.August 22, 2012 1:42 pm at 1:42 pm #892323akupermaParticipant
Since credit card (and most other debts) are denominated in fiat money (money with nothing backing it except faith in the issuing government), and meshiach coming will undermine faith in all existing governments, the money itself will become worthless. This is one reason why frum Jews usually have been more concerned with building up stable assets, such as zechus from learning and mitsvos, since assets based on this world lose value in the long run.August 22, 2012 4:28 pm at 4:28 pm #892324NaftushMember
I thought the only difference in Mashiach’s time will be the termination of ?????? ?????? . Or is our prayer for ????? ?? ????? ???????? meant to be taken in credit card terms?
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