Will Rav Amnon Yitzchak manage to change the music industry?

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  • #701540
    its_me
    Member

    bein hasdorim. are you trying to say that the rav its trying to make money from this? he is fighting for kvod shomayim and he is doing it lshem shomayim. all the singers he is against sing in mixed crowds. where are the heteirim for this? the fact that we (myself incl) cant live without music? thats not a heter. how can a song from a current,leading pop artist be incorporated into a jewish song (‘yofyofisa’) and be labeled an ‘alternative’ version without people getting up and shouting GEVALD!!? where is the music headed, and where are the singers leading us?

    it hurts me as much as you and maybe more (i am a music addict) but i see where all this is going and i owe it to the rav.he is right. its time for an overhaul. the jewish music industry is a business selling a product that affects out neshomas , just like the Jewish food industry is selling products that affect our neshamas. both need to be supervised.

    and yes..chazal say avira deretz yisrael is machkim. so even the air can have a hashpo’a on our neshamas. so i for one will buy a bottle of the yerushalmi air you are selling. but it does not need a hechsher . it has chazals already. but the jewish music that has evolved today into an ugly monster does not.

    #701541
    d a
    Member

    I saw a kids book that was printed in EY, WITH A HECHSHER, and there was a hashgafa issue with the book.

    #701543
    its_me
    Member

    (in no particular order) rav sheinberg rav elyashiv,rav vosner,rav shteinman, rav lefkovitz,reb chaim,reb nisim karelitz,reb shmuel aurebach have signed a psak halacha that even separate concerts are asur in EY and in the U.S., all the jewish singers are sinners, and its asur to sing their music, among other things in the psak. (shofar website)

    this seems like a very big step against jewish music. the only thing left is to wait and see if it will have an effect .

    #701544
    WIY
    Member

    its_me

    I have my doubts about the authenticity of this “psak” considering that we have video of Rav Shtaynman and Rav Elyashiv being pressured by Rav Yitzchak and refusing to give in to him to assur concerts. I hope the psak isn’t a forgery.

    #701545
    its_me
    Member

    ok, WIY , i saw the video too. but lets say that ALL the gedoilim signed ONLY out of respect for rav amnon yitzchak.(i dont think so but lets say) does that mean its not a psak halacha ? do we not have to follow it?

    #701546
    MichelleNY
    Member

    its_me, I don’t think this well informed yid means what you think. in fact your last comment is pretty preposterous – no rav would sign a psak “out of respect” for another rav. emet is emet. I think what he meant was, many times there have been forged signatures of gedolim on letters and posters regarding controversial issues such as this one. i.e., the rabbonim never signed regarding the matter at all. not saying this is the case in this particular situation, just that it’s a strong possibility.

    the only issue I agree with here is the mixed concerts. yes, it does make sense considering people like to go as a family with their children, and it is charming that they call it “family seating”, but in reality it’s just just families who are sitting there. and let’s be real, is a family of 6 more likely to miss a concert because mom and dad can’t sit together, or mom takes 2 kids, dad takes 2 kids? what in the world is wrong with that? will someone who attends concerts with their spouse and children please tell me if that would be a problem for them?

    #701547
    MichelleNY
    Member

    Since I’m not sure how clear my last post was, just a few clear points:

    1. Although to an extent I hear the goyish music argument, it is a kosher outlet! We are human beings, and although some of you may think you can live with no outlets other than pure shiurei Torah, (I so wish you the best of luck with that in the long run as I have tried it before) most people simply cannot last that way, and proper Jewish music is inspiring and BEAUTIFUL! PLEASE people get a GRIP!

    2. I hear how some rabbis may have a problem with concerts in general, but again, this is a form of entertainment which can be kosher when done the right way. This should be something that you consult with your personal Rav for his opinion.

    3. Mixed concerts, I think I explained pretty well in my last post – the mixed sections are just not necessary.

    #701548
    Chosson
    Member

    Where can I see the aforementioned video

    #701549
    apushatayid
    Participant

    Try shofar.net

    #701550
    its_me
    Member

    chosson its on the shofar website under the ‘media’ tab. the videos there are in chronological order and the video was taken in aug.

    #701551
    bein_hasdorim
    Participant

    its_me; whoa! In no way was i making fun C”V of reb Amnon Yitzchak

    Shlita who is a super bal Mekarev, and has brought thousands of yidden back to yiddishkeit.

    I was poking fun at stuff that Absolutely do not require a hechsher, but get one, making yidden pay extra, for these

    items, the brainchild of some business minded folk who are close

    to some beis din or chosuve rov, convincing him of the benefits

    of their product L’toivas Ha’klal.

    taking advantage of the fact that many yidden especially in E”Y

    try to do the right thing on the highest level.

    I feel bad for those ppl although they do it l’sheim shomayim & will be greatly rewarded for it, they are still being taken advantage of. Read my earlier post on pg. 1 to see my opinion.

    #701552
    apushatayid
    Participant

    Some of the “psakim” dont sit right with me. What gadol refers to the singer “klipa shmeltzer” like that?

    #701553
    its_me
    Member

    apushatayid, the psak of the gdoilim is a psak if it sits right with you or not. they(the gedoilim) didnt call him names, it was rav amnon. i assume he took the liberty to make fun of the singers because he holds they are reshaim according to the psak of the gedoilim that called them machtei harabim. and oivrei aveirah. see the psak

    #701554
    apushatayid
    Participant

    Its_Me. What I meant was, I think the “psak” is a forgery. Rav Amnon Yitzchak and all the gedolim listed dont talk that way, about anyone, no matter what they think of him.

    #701555
    its_me
    Member

    i saw the psak on his site and on a news site (kikar). rav wosner shlita authored the psak. the psak doesnt call or mention any singers names. however facts are facts and rav yitzchak IS saying ‘klipa’ in his lectures. they are all available for viewing on his site. the gedoilim read the psak and signed it, and it says that on the psak too. this is all factual, and there is not much to it.

    #701556
    apushatayid
    Participant

    I am under no obligation to believe the “psak” is authentic. If I need a psak, I ask my Rav, I don’t consult the nearest light pole or wall surrounding a construction site.

    #701557
    its_me
    Member

    ok. is there anyone else that agrees with apushatayid? (you need to see the psak and decide if its authentic or if its a forgery)

    #701558
    WIY
    Member

    Its_me

    I don’t want to go into details here but if you google around a bit you will discover that some other blogs discuss it and explain why it shouldn’t be taken too seriously.

    Personally, I have a Rav he wouldn’t go along with this, and besides, I hardly go to concerts and when I do I always sit with family and we never have an issue of men sitting next to women they aren’t related to.

    #701559
    Ben Torah
    Participant

    I always sit with family and we never have an issue of men sitting next to women they aren’t related to.

    How is that possible? Your family has a mechitza all around it? Where are the “other” families sitting? Not at where your family ends?

    #701560
    WIY
    Member

    Ben Torah

    It works out. The women sit next to women and men next to men. What’s shver?

    #701561
    Ben Torah
    Participant

    It’s mixed seating.

    #701562
    its_me
    Member

    wellinformed yid .you have not said that you think the psak has been forged. if its a real psak, why should it not be taken seriously? just because some blog says so? also, who said the problem is sitting NEXT to women? the issur here is not negiah! its MIXED seating ! dont tell me you sit mixed at weddings too! does your rav have a problem with that?

    i understand that ALLOT of people make a parnasa- (singers,composers, distributors, newspapers, and websites just to name a few) from the music industry, and many dollars are raised for worthy causes from it. however there are lots of issurim being stepped on in the name of this parnasa

    ‘all for the boss’ made a stand against mixed weddings during a time when the issue was being grossly neglected. today we owe it all to him. he didnt care what the ‘blogs’ said. he did whats right.

    rav amnon is doing the same thing. he is making a stand against another breach in the wall of the jewish people. ‘JEWISH MUSIC’ that doesnt look jewish or sound jewsih, and produces nothing but issurim.

    #701563
    its_me
    Member

    regretfully , many frum newspapers and websites have chosen to totally ignore a psak halacha signed by rav elyashiv, rav shmuel, rav shteinman, rav sheinberg ,and many others and not be mefarsem it. so.. maybe you will tell me that they are not sure its authentic and thats why they are not publicizing it? to that i will answer that if any other type of news story finds its way to their ears, if they doubt its true they will make a few phone calls to verify it, and if its not sometimes they might even publicize that its sheker.

    fortunate are we that we have a tzadikim in our generation who will tell us the emes no matter how hard it hurts.

    #701564
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    It should be noted that all this talk about mixed seating is beside the point, because the newest decree says that even separate concerts are forbidden.

    The Wolf

    #701565
    apushatayid
    Participant

    Sadly, the problem with todays generation is that everyone (except me apparantly) takes their guidance from posters on walls. In response to my question, my rav has not told me it is assur to own music from the singers mentioned on some of the posters, and yes he is aware of the posters. When he is in doubt, he asks his Rav, who in turn has not told him it is assur to own or listen to some of the singers mentioned in the posters and websites.

    If you choose to get your psak halacha from a poster, so be it. I am under no obligation to believe the poster has accurately portrayed what any of the gedolim whose signatures appear may or may not have said, in fact, I am under no obligation to listen to it either. If my rav instructs me to follow what the poster says, its because he independently verified that the words of the gedolim have not been distorted by anyone to further their own agendas, and I listen to what he tells me. I have no problems with you taking your guidance from something hanging on a wall and in fact believeing it is true. I’ll stick with my Rav and his guidance and their is no chiyuv upon me to follow what someone wrote on a poster, no matter who he claims to represent.

    I might change my mind when people who put out these posters put their names on them.

    #701566
    Ben Torah
    Participant

    You can always ask the gedolim in question who are named as having assured the concerts. Many are reachable.

    #701567
    WIY
    Member

    Ben Torah,

    The bus and train are also mixed seating except that on those you end up often phyically touching a woman who is usually not Jewish and not dressed too Tznius. There are many people who have to put up with this a few times a day every day of their working lives.

    If the concert has mixed seating sections where the women sit next to women and the men sit next to men and everybody is anyways focused forwards on the stage what’s the big problem?

    #701568
    Ben Torah
    Participant

    WIY: Rav Moshe has a specific psak muttiring sitting on a train/bus next to them for the reason he gives — which are not necessarily applicable to a concert or potentially unruly situation.

    #701569
    WIY
    Member

    Ben Torah

    I have never attended or heard of any of the frum concerts (the ones advertised in Hamodia and Yated) ever becoming “unruly.”

    #701570
    its_me
    Member

    well informed, ben torah is right . you are mixing apples and oranges. a concert setting (or a wedding) is the perfect place for mingling of the genders where chachomim required a mechitza. how can you compare that to a subway car?

    #701571
    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    No.

    (answer to OP)

    #701572
    yechezkel89
    Member

    I highly doubt that any of the Gedolim assured the concerts. It was made up by their mesharism who constantly distort everything that comes from them

    #701573
    WIY
    Member

    Its_me

    You are right, they shouldn’t have mixed seating because of the teens. I’m out of my teens and I view a concert as family fun but I hear the potential for problems.

    But I still think that non mixed concerts are fine.

    #701574
    apushatayid
    Participant

    “mesharism”

    I think you are giving them to much credit.

    #701575
    Ben Torah
    Participant

    We know many Rabbonim oppose the Jewish entertainment industry. Are there any gedolim on the record who support these singers?? I haven’t heard of any.

    #701576
    apushatayid
    Participant

    “I haven’t heard of any.”

    Lo Rainu aino Raya.

    Ask your Rav if you are mechuyav to throw out your collection of music, or some of it? If he says yes, throw it out. When he does, remember, it is a psak for you, nobody else. Anonymous posters gracing the walls of Meah Shearim, Bnei Brak, Boro Park or anywhere else, are just that, anonymous posters that nobody is under any obligation to follow.

    #701577
    apushatayid
    Participant

    “Are there any gedolim on the record who support these singers?? “

    Are there gedolim on the record who support the orange juice industry?

    Did your Rav issue a psak? Follow it. If not, please dont invent one.

    ==========================================================

    “Are there any gedolim on the record who support these singers?? “

    Pun intended?

    #701578
    Ben Torah
    Participant

    The issue is more on concerts than CD’s.

    Can you inform us of one who is A-OK with them?

    #701579
    WIY
    Member

    Ben Torah

    In a perfect world we would have no need for concerts but in this day and age I think most Rabbanim would say it is permissible. Why would a non mixed concert be a problem unless you say its bitul zman or something, but theres no solid issur. Anyone can be a Kannai and Assur everything in sight.

    Remember America is not Eretz Yisroel, the Geodlim there are much more machmir and the realities are different. Remember a concert in Yerushalayim the holiest city on earth that is in Aveilus because theres no Bais Hamikdosh may not be so appropriate, but a concert in Brooklyn, would be fine.

    #701580
    apushatayid
    Participant

    Tell me who ASSURED concerts. Not which poster. Which posek. May I add, the source for the psak can not be a poster, certainly not an anonymous poster making claims in the name of poskim.

    #701581
    its_me
    Member

    apushatayid, if its convenient for you to assume that the psak is anonymous for your own benefit , thats fine. but don’t portray this as fact. the one who paskend and wrote the psak is rav vosner shlita, the one who brought the letter to the gedoilim to sign is rav amnon yitchack shlita and the gedoilm who signed, signed.

    this is not a psak that someone printed up in mea shearim and signed ‘the vaad for kosher music’ or some other meaningless organization. furthermore , this is not the first psak against concerts from the gedoilim. singers- its time to ‘face the music’

    #701582
    its_me
    Member

    well informed yid, we are all in golus and in aveilus over the beis hamikdash in brooklyn, L.A. or yerushalayim. we all break the glass under the chupa for that reason.

    the Union of Orthodox Rabbis of the United States and Canada signed a letter begging am yisroel to regect all forms of pasul’le ‘jewish’ music in kisleiv tof shin samach vov. have you heard of that body or is that an anonymous poster too? maybe you will say its an outdated psak? well ‘our’ music has only gotten worse since then, with all sorts of clowns singing and acting on stage and with ‘imported’ singers teaching us ‘new tricks’ at the most prestigious jewish concerts.

    #701583
    WIY
    Member

    its_me

    You seem almost happy that this may affect the singers business. Why is this so personal for you?

    #701584
    its_me
    Member

    WIY first of all, there is a way to make a parnasa and follow the rules set by halacha and our gedoilim shlita , if you are a shoichet, a plumber, a singer, a fundraiser, or a CEO. you can do your job in a questionable way , be over isurim and be considered a machti harabim or do it 100 percent kosher. its our choice and hashem will reward us if we pass the test of making a ‘clean’ parnasa. the music industry need not close up shop, and the rabonom know that. they are trying to make takanos, for our benefit. thats all. why do we need to sing psukim to rap-like music or rap mamash? or hip -hop? why?

    so i am not happy that it will affect anyone’s business, because it CANT. hashem is mefarnes everyone in his way, and one cannot lose by listening to gedoilei hador.

    why is it so personal to me? simple. because i am obsessed with music. i used to listen all the time to it. but rav amnon has helped me realize just how far our music has strayed. now i realize that i was listening to goyishe music dressed up as jewish music with psukim. now we are literally taking CURRENT goyishe POP music and integrating it into our songs (yofyofisa) and the producers of this song had the chutzpa to call it ‘alternative’! alternative? they found a nice word for ‘so totaly goyish ‘! one singer gets introduced as ‘the king of jewish pop’. jewsih pop?! is there such a thing as jewish ham? or a jewish church?

    so i am SHOUTING and i want am yisroel to look at where we are musically now, and where we are r’l headed with this. it must stop. it must change . the singers need to shape up because in this dor they are looked up to more than the gedoilim themselves! they should utilize this power hashem gave them for good not the opposite.

    i stopped listening because what i once thought was so full of meaning i now realize is achizas einayim.

    #701585
    WIY
    Member

    Its_me

    Are you aware that the song Sola Kokosh (spelling?) Is a goyish song yet the holy Kaliver Rebbe shlita sings it? It would seem like its not a problem for a Jew to take a non Jewish song and make it holy.

    #701586
    Helpful
    Member

    A Kaliver Rebbe, yes, knows when it is or isnt kosher to use. Chaim Yankel ben Yitzy Lochinkup, does not.

    #701587
    mosherose
    Member

    Whatever happened to the halacha that since the churban music is assur accept for a sudas mitzvah?

    #701588
    mosherose
    Member

    Who sez sitting next to yur wife in public is muttar even if no other men wll set next to her? Didnt Ezra make takanos that men shouldnt be around their wifes all the time like tarnegolim?

    #701589
    apushatayid
    Participant

    Again, poster psak. If that’s for you, go for it. I’ll ask my Rav.

    #701590
    WIY
    Member

    Mosherose

    If you are so crum oops I meant frum why are you wasting your precious time on the internet? You should be busy preparing a chabura or something….

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