November 7, 2013 3:24 am at 3:24 am #611212
I’ve been wondering, why is everyone making such a big deal over NY possibly getting more casinos? I mean, all that means is that now gamblers will have a choice between sitting on their couches and gambling their lives away on their ipads, or gambling in a casino. So what is the significance in that? BH, I don’t really understand the mind of a gambler but I would think that it’s easier to sit at home and gamble than to go out to a casino where there’s the possibility of being caught, so why is it bad if there are more casinos? Excuse my ignorance on this subject, I just don’t get why this is such a big deal.November 7, 2013 1:08 pm at 1:08 pm #986981
Its not a big deal in fact it was already fairly easy to gamble
There are racinos already at Aqueduct and Yonkers raceway. And even if you wanted a more casino experience its only 2-2.5 hours to a full fledged casino in NJ,CT or PA.
And you can buy Lottery tickets or play numbers games on almost any cornerNovember 7, 2013 1:18 pm at 1:18 pm #986982
You have never met a compulsive gambler. Nor have you watched the complete destruction that is inflicted on the gambler, his/her immediate family, the extended families, and countless others. You certainly have not witnessed the futile efforts to bail out the gambler from crushing debt. And you are clearly unfamiliar with the ease of developing a gambling problem, far more insidious than other addictions.
P.S. Gambling addiction is rampant among Jews. The membership of GA (Gamblers Anonymous) has an extremely high percentage of Jews.November 7, 2013 4:31 pm at 4:31 pm #986983rebdonielMember
I voted against this proposition because I oppose gambling, and see it as incompatible with the moral vision for society Judaism offers. More gambling will result in more problems for our society, more immorality, more degenerate behaviors, and more temptation.November 7, 2013 8:06 pm at 8:06 pm #986985
What a silly comment.
Racinos or lotto are nothing like full fledged casinos. There is a reason why Las Vegas is one of the busiest tourist destinations. Developers and NYS are going to invest Billions of dollars for something that is not going to bring in new money.
As far as convenience, how can you compare something being 15 minutes away to the casinos in Atlantic City or Connecticut?
What a silly comment.November 7, 2013 8:10 pm at 8:10 pm #986986
The most profitable casino in the US is the Racino at Aqueduct.
Ive been in Vegas, Atlantic City and Empire Casino (Yonkers) (Ive never been in Aqueduct) and I can tell you there is no difference. It all has the same feel.November 7, 2013 9:52 pm at 9:52 pm #986988
I cannot say I have been to all those establishments of ill repute as you have, because I have not. But I doubt the accuracy of your comments.November 7, 2013 9:59 pm at 9:59 pm #986990
I did a bit of research, it is the most profitable “SLOTS ONLY” casino.
These are not going to be slots only casinos. From what I am led to believe by those who have observed such things, the atmosphere at the dice tables or the cards tables are much different.
I guess I was correct in questioning your accuracy.November 7, 2013 10:14 pm at 10:14 pm #986991
Ive been in Vegas, Atlantic City and Empire Casino (Yonkers)
Why shlep when you could just go to the corner store for a lottery ticket?November 8, 2013 2:01 pm at 2:01 pm #986992
They have table games at Empire Casino (Yonkers) and it too is one of the most profitable casionos in the US.
DY : I dont like gambling, but there is a differnce between playing the lottery and being at a casino. Its much more intersting at a casino
FYI : I got to chinese auctions frequently and many of them have the same atmosphere as a casinoNovember 8, 2013 3:08 pm at 3:08 pm #986993
ZD, if casinos are more interesting, they’re more tempting, and if they’re more readily available, we’ll see, r”l, more ruined families.
Did you catch one teenager’s post about her father’s gambling issue and how horrible the consequences? heartbreaking.
I was opposed to the proposal for this reason.November 8, 2013 3:26 pm at 3:26 pm #986994
How many lives are ruined from Alchohol?
We all know about Kiddish Clubs, Drunkeness on Simchat Torah and Purim
Should we ban Alcohol too?November 8, 2013 3:35 pm at 3:35 pm #986995
What a ridiculous comparison.
This is not about a “ban” (I know you love that word)on casinos. They were illegal thus far. It is legalizing something that was not legal to date, even though it is known to have deleterious effects on individuals and communities. It would be comparable to legalizing cocaine or heroin.
This difference is not even in the least bit subtle. You should be able to comprehend it.
And FYI, there is nothing wrong with getting drunk on Purim, it is in fact a halacha to do so.
But I suppose you believe you know better than the shulchan oruch.November 8, 2013 3:36 pm at 3:36 pm #986996🐵 ⌨ GamanitParticipant
zahavasdad- they tried banning alcohol. The crime rates went up like crazy. Read about the prohibition era…November 8, 2013 3:39 pm at 3:39 pm #986997
You wrote, “How many lives are ruined from Alcohol?
We all know about Kiddish Clubs, Drunkenness on Simchat Torah and Purim
Should we ban Alcohol too? “
Big difference, and it is one that matters. Alcohol can be used appropriately, and can be part of simchos and mitzvos. When used properly, there are no incursions into areas of issurim. We need to e careful to set up the proper and healthy undaries and gedorim to insure that alcohol remains a brocho, not the opposite ch”v. That fact does not exist with gambling. It is assur anyway whch you may study by examining the sugya of mesachek bekuvya in Sanhedrin, which you should review with the meforshim and poskim. Yes, casual gambling is also assur. Yes, the establishments that offer mini-casinos within the frum community during Chanukah are committing a grave issur, being machshil every one of their customers (besides being evil in their pursuit of everyone else’s money).
Just for your information, the Chinese auctions that are held as fund raisers for various tzedoko are actually relying on a flimsy technicality of halacha. These organizations know quite well that they can procure more of your money by making an auction, than they could by ordinary soliciting.
Those with propensities to gambling should not even buy the $1 ruboffs from the kids raising tzedokoh for their yeshivos. Donate – yes. Gamble – no.November 8, 2013 8:42 pm at 8:42 pm #986999N.GMember
I think casino should become illegal. I saw people play poker. Maybe the people that say it is not bad, don’t even know what poker is. People become in debt. It start with small amounts but if the player does good he’ll start betting a -lot of money. In casino it is even worst and dangerous. You have much more pressure, and I heard that the casinos make u get into it. People even bet up to a million bucks or more.Also they say people even get killed in casinos. Casinos should be illegal.November 9, 2013 11:37 pm at 11:37 pm #987000
ZD, no, they should not ban alcohol, but no competent rov should allow a kiddush club in his shul.November 10, 2013 2:28 am at 2:28 am #987001
Gambling is horrible in every wy. I know that from personal experience (VERY personal experience). I know that it’s bad- I’m just wondering if NY’s having more casinos will actually make a difference.November 10, 2013 3:14 am at 3:14 am #987002
Ive seen people drunk on Simchat Torah and Purim and Im sure if the Shulchan Aruch saw these people behaving this way it would have felt differently and these were Yeshiva boys whom I expected better.
It turned out had the amendment failed, Gambling would have spread anyway,but instead of casinos there would have been alot more VLT’s (Video Lottery Terminals) and Racinos downstateNovember 10, 2013 3:36 am at 3:36 am #987003
While it is true that people who want to gamble will find a way to gamble, and will go to say Atlantic City, I don’t think that’s a reason to create more casinos. And since I’m a resident in New York and vote here, I voted “no”. Casinos are designed to manipulate people into staying longer than they should and spending money they don’t have. There are much better ways to entertain people and make money in a way that does not ruin their lives. The last thing we need is more gambling. It’s just as addictive and destructive as any drug.November 12, 2013 2:19 am at 2:19 am #987004mewhoParticipant
anyhing can become addictive. a compulsive shopper can put his/her family into debt as well.
by the way, theres a beautiful hotel/casino in Bethleham , PA called The Sands. For those who dont like gambling , there is also an outlet shopping mall attached to the hotel.November 12, 2013 3:12 am at 3:12 am #987005
Out of all the responses to this thread, yours made the most sense. Are you new here? If you are, welcome! I’m looking forward to hearing other educated responses to some of the threads on the CR.November 12, 2013 1:27 pm at 1:27 pm #987006
Hey thanks! Yes, I am new. I appreciate the kind words.November 12, 2013 3:04 pm at 3:04 pm #987007
mewho commented that anything can be addictive. True. So can writing comments in the CR. But let’s examine the casino thing again. All business establishments are based on making money. Everyone wants to get paid for their product or service. But in the normal business world, the idea is generating revenue by offering something in exchange, either product or service. Not casinos. Casinos are an exception. It is a (legitimate) business that has the goal to take your money from you while offering you nothing but the fantasy that you are winning something or might be. It is conclusive that the entire industry built on gambling is “legalized” thievery.
Don’t fantasize that it will ever be declared illegal by any level of government. The governments are in the business themselves, whether by running lotteries, or by regulating casinos to collect taxes on the winnings.November 12, 2013 6:08 pm at 6:08 pm #987009Eli51Participant
I have been to Las Vegas twice & I voted against the Casinos. This is because although gambling is an aveira the pritzusdika woman who work @ the casino is the bigger problem. Is this what we want our community & children to be exposed to?November 13, 2013 4:44 pm at 4:44 pm #987010garlicbreathParticipant
Now I only have to drive 5 min instead of 30 min.November 13, 2013 5:19 pm at 5:19 pm #987011
Are you being serious?November 13, 2013 5:38 pm at 5:38 pm #987012garlicbreathParticipant
No Mabe its Closer to 10 min but still beter
Than 30November 13, 2013 7:25 pm at 7:25 pm #987013–Participant
I strongly believe that allowing casinos will have a bigger impact on the Jewish community than allowing gay marriage.November 13, 2013 7:51 pm at 7:51 pm #987014
The casino in Aqueduct or Yonkers is very close to the jewish communities and Atlantic City is fairly close to Lakewood.
This law was not going to change thatNovember 13, 2013 7:54 pm at 7:54 pm #987015
ZD, no, but it will add casinos in Sullivan County.November 13, 2013 8:30 pm at 8:30 pm #987016
Aqueduct is accessible by Subway. its much easier to get to than Sullivan County who frankly needs the jobs. Its an economically depressed areaNovember 13, 2013 11:20 pm at 11:20 pm #987017
I fail to see what point you are making?
Gambling is a problem. So it was available in some form till now, this is any way going to greatly increase the presence. And it will be very close to where frum Jews live in the summer.
It will absolutely impact the hundreds of thousands of people who vacation in and about Sullivan county.
So, what is your point??November 14, 2013 12:21 am at 12:21 am #987018mewhoParticipant
it will surely affect the traffic going upstate in the summertime. get ready to take off from work on fridays and come up thursday so you dont have to worry about being on time for shabbosNovember 14, 2013 12:57 am at 12:57 am #987019
ZD, thousands of Yidden spend their summers in Sullivan County, and casinos there will tempt some of them.November 14, 2013 2:40 am at 2:40 am #987020
Oh. My. Gosh. You’re serious! You gamble? That is so awful! Are you married? Do you have kids? What gives you the right to do this to them? When I have time someday, I’m going to write a ranting post to educate you as to what gambling does to a person and his family. For a brief sneak peek check this thread out-
Remember that gamblers are sold to the Soton. Are you willing to sell your soul for some money?! If you are, you’re pathetic. Just saying.November 14, 2013 2:40 am at 2:40 am #987021
The Little I Know said that casinos steal from their patrons, and rather than provide a legitimate product or service only offer the fantasy of winning.
I think that casinos are bad for people and for society, but the fact is that casinos are great at entertaining people, and entertainment is a legitimate service that some people work hard to provide and others willingly pay for. Casinos are in show business – everything about a casino is designed to help people have fun (while they gamble their life savings away).
Would you say that Broadway cheats people because they have nothing more when they leave than when they arrive? Broadway provides excellent entertainment. The difference is that people know what they’re paying for Broadway up front whereas casinos use various methods – many of them deceptive – to extract money from people.
Some people go to casinos with $100 worth of quarters (and that’s it) and have a good time with their friends. They don’t expect to win, they expect to lose the $100 but have a great time. To me that’s the way to enjoy a casino.
However most people don’t do that. They get sucked in by the lights, sounds, free drinks and the atmosphere. They forget that chips are actual money and get careless. They lose track of time because there are no clocks or windows. And before you know it they’re deep in debt. That’s the part I have a problem with.November 14, 2013 10:10 am at 10:10 am #987022
Leeb W, I think that your analysis is correct except that you have the “some people” and “most people” reversed. Most folks go to casinos for entertainment and excitement and don’t gamble more than they can afford to lose. Some people can’t control themselves and get into trouble.
From a halachic perspective, my opinion is (and i’m sure some of you will be fighting to be the first to disagree with me) that recreational casino goers are not considered mesaseik bekuvya and are not pasul l’eidus.November 14, 2013 3:03 pm at 3:03 pm #987023
With Casino gambling legal almost everywhere Las Vegas had to re-invent itself and now over 50% of its revenues are from non-casino sources.
Atlantic City is also trying to reinvent itself the same. You actually need more activies than gambling to be successful.
The fact of the matter is Sullivan County is an economically depressed area and they need tax revenues and jobs there. At one time when the Borscht Belt was huge people would go, now only Charedi jews go there and then only for 2 months.
All the anti-casino arguments would hold true if it wasnt generally legal. But its legal most places now, might as well keep the jobs and tax revenue here
And BTW quite a few jews have made huge fortunes from Casinos Dr Irwin Moskowitz and Sheldon Adelson both of whom I think give alot of TzedkahNovember 14, 2013 11:32 pm at 11:32 pm #987024
OK, that was a bit harsh. You’re not pathetic. I just… Well, I feel bad for you. I hope you forgive me for that irate post.November 15, 2013 7:13 am at 7:13 am #987025MammeleParticipant
People here don’t seem to care that Sullivan county has all year round Yidden living there as well. There’s the Yeshiva in South Fallsburg and a Small Viznitz shtetl — in Kiamesha lake close to Monticello — and more Yidden scattered elsewhere.
Additionally, many see viable potential for the Catskills to solve the Heimishe affordable housing crisis. To only worry about the summer crowd despite the huge number of vacationers is being unfair and shortsighted.November 15, 2013 1:20 pm at 1:20 pm #987026
Perhaps the should open an “adult” video store next to you. It is legal in almost all states. The person who wants to make money, which you just stated should be the deciding factor.
I am sure that you can give us a critique of the different venues just as you so kindly did with gambling venues.
Your post never got to the pointNovember 15, 2013 1:42 pm at 1:42 pm #987027
Nishtdayngesheft, that was visious and uncalled for. There’s no reason you can’t debate ZD in a civil manner.November 15, 2013 1:48 pm at 1:48 pm #987028
ZD, you’re presenting the reason that Sullivan County wants casinos, but not every revenue raising idea should be implemented. There is a big human downside which should override the economic benefit.November 15, 2013 2:26 pm at 2:26 pm #987029
Historically, the hospitality industry has been the mainstay of Sullivan County. There is no manufacturing to speak of nor is the much in the way of agriculture. Since the demise of the Borscht Belt, Sullivan county has been an economically depressed area. Casino gambling is simply a modern iteration of Sullivan County’s traditional industry. So the answer to the OP is yes, it will change things sort of back to the way they were.
Is it good for Yidden? Well, if you own property in Sullivan County you’re going to do well. If you’re a compulsive gambler, it may be a little easier to lose your shirt although, remembering the six hour odyssey to get to Grossinger’s back in the day, that might not be so.
Just a note. If any of you do plan on sampling the delights of the new casinos, please don’t go in levush. It’s embarrassing to to see all those bekeshes on the casino floor.November 15, 2013 3:07 pm at 3:07 pm #987030apushatayidParticipant
This is just one in a long line of things society has legalized in its quest to become the most hedonistic society in the history of mankind. Anu mashkimim…., Anu Ratzim…., they are doing us a favor by drawing the lines and making the distinctions more clear for us. When things are black and white, decisions are not difficult.November 15, 2013 3:56 pm at 3:56 pm #987031
Apushitayid, I’ve posted on other threads about this and it rankles me every time I read a post like yours. You simply have no knowledge of history nor any idea of what secular America is like. All you know is the opinion of Rebbes and Mechanchim who are as cloistered as you are. I take personal offense when folks like you, who really don’t know what they’re talking about, run down my country. Is casino gambling good? for most it’s harmless fun, for some it can be a trap and a nightmare. In the grand scheme of things, America is the greatest country on the face of the earth and it’s place in the golus is unique. To say that, since the churban, Jews never had it so good is an understatement. Not only are we Yidden blessed to live here, the rest of America, the “Goyim” who you despise and denigrate, is hard working, respectful, broad minded, fair and upright. Your characterization of America as “the most hedonistic society in the history of mankind” is so obviously silly that I won’t waste time and effort refuting it.
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