April 5, 2022 12:48 am at 12:48 am #2075489
This year especially I’ve seen quinoa at many Kosher stores. I understand the OK concluded it’s noot kitniyosApril 5, 2022 10:53 am at 10:53 am #2075628
I don’t see how it is any more problematic that maize (called “corn”, or technically “Indian corn”, in North America)? They are both “New World” grains used to make bread.
One should note that the machmir opinion in the gemara is that anything you make bread from should be treated as hametz (in that case, they were talking about rice), but the Ashkenazi opinion is more liberal and treat them as kitniyos. It does seem that someone who holds by eating rice and corn, should have no issues with quinoa, though there might be issues with making hallah, pita or pizza our of them.
Personally, I don’t use any of them, at least for food for humans.April 5, 2022 10:53 am at 10:53 am #2075650
Rav belsky held it’s kitnios, as it’s processed like the 5 grains, is a staple grain of its countries, is stored with the 5 grains, and is included in breads.
Rav moshe heiniman disagreedApril 5, 2022 10:53 am at 10:53 am #2075662DaMosheParticipant
Nope. I don’t like the taste. But if my family wants to have it, I’m fine with it.April 5, 2022 10:53 am at 10:53 am #2075665CTLAWYERParticipant
no, but I don’t eat or like it the rest of the year, eitherApril 5, 2022 10:53 am at 10:53 am #2075669sensibleyidParticipant
Yes it seems COR (kashruth council of Canada) has finally relented and allows itApril 5, 2022 10:53 am at 10:53 am #2075670ubiquitinParticipant
YesApril 5, 2022 10:53 am at 10:53 am #2075672lowerourtuition11210Participant
i dont eat it all year why should i eat on pesach? My family eats it though..April 5, 2022 10:53 am at 10:53 am #2075681hujuParticipant
I don’t eat quinoa ever.April 5, 2022 10:53 am at 10:53 am #2075692
While arguably it may not technically be considered kitniyos, there are still many frum yidden across all spectrums of hashkafah who will still not eat quinoa even on achron shel pesach simply because it doesn’t “feel pesachdik”. In a world where food scientists appear able to “engineer” just about any food for pesach, there are still some who adhere to a matzoh & potatoes core diet for yom tov.April 5, 2022 1:14 pm at 1:14 pm #2075758OrangeCountyChapperParticipant
While we enjoy quinoa in my home, and we don’t hold that it is kitniyos, we won’t go out of our way to have it on Pesach. We eat gebrokts and there’s already enough vegetables and protein to eat.
If I am a guest in someone’s kosher home, I would have no problem eating quinoa on Pesach. I would draw the line at quinioa “bread”.April 5, 2022 1:14 pm at 1:14 pm #2075760
There are frum that won’t eat anything outside the traditional minimum: chicken/meat, potatoes, carrots, onions…
Chumros on Peisach is the most revered beautiful thing. Each community, family respectively.April 5, 2022 3:48 pm at 3:48 pm #2075869
Rav Belsky would often say that it’s important to keep pesach minhagim, even those which seem irrelevant and dependent on European agricultural standardsApril 5, 2022 3:50 pm at 3:50 pm #2075873maskildoreshParticipant
To what level has Klal Yisroel decended that questions of Halacha are a matter of a poll in the CR?
And that prominent Hashachos are “relenting” due to consumer pressure?April 5, 2022 4:27 pm at 4:27 pm #2075883
You know the story with the Chayei Adam who wanted to asser potatoes and was told, you are taking away the chayei adam, person’s sustenance. The Geonim had no potatoes, so it was not assered even though we can make flower and bake with it. Maybe, a gezeira sh’ein rov hatzibur yecholim laamod bo, a prohibition that the majority cannot stand.April 5, 2022 7:31 pm at 7:31 pm #2075970
“To what level has Klal Yisroel decended that questions of Halacha are a matter of a poll in the CR?”
Recent polls show that more ehrliche yidden rely on the CR Poskim than any other virtual source of daas torahApril 5, 2022 8:22 pm at 8:22 pm #2075974
Eliezer. I heard a story about one of the Rabonim in Europe before WW2 that had threatened those that overpriced matzoh otherwise he will give permission to eat peas… it worked.April 6, 2022 4:06 am at 4:06 am #2076038yiddish mamaParticipant
Perhaps we can get an actual psak. Then we can call it the new world order. 🤣🤣April 6, 2022 7:57 am at 7:57 am #2076052beisyosefParticipant
Yes I will be eating quinoa. But then again I agree with the Behag that the issur of kitniyos is a minhag Shel shtus, and I agree with the chacham tzvi that it’s a chumra hamevi leyidei Lilah and we should get rid of such nonsense.April 6, 2022 10:17 am at 10:17 am #2076115
מנהגים = גהינם
Belittling minhagei yisroel, peppering anti Torah vile with sources, only makes bizui Torah worse.
I don’t envy you.April 6, 2022 10:20 am at 10:20 am #2076116
So it seems there is agreement that the debate on quinoa is really a debate on whether one can use all kitniyos, in other words, if we can have hallah, pita and pizza made from grains (rice, corn/maize, quinoa) other than the one’s listed in Humash.April 6, 2022 12:18 pm at 12:18 pm #2076194BaisIsThePlaceParticipant
Ah yes, matzah and potatoes, a food that no Jew had never eaten until well after the time of the Shulchan Aruch.April 7, 2022 11:36 am at 11:36 am #2076481Yserbius123Participant
Machlokes Rav Belsky and Rav Heineman l’havdil. I do believe that one of Rav Belsky’s main concerns was that it’s grown near grain. The Star-K puts a hechsher on some quinoa and I think the majority now paskens like Rav Heineman.
Corn is different because we have a near unanimous consensus by early acharonim that it should be considered kitniyos. So we (Ashkenazim) don’t eat it because of mesorah.April 7, 2022 12:42 pm at 12:42 pm #2076530
Putting aside the general admonition of “aseh lacha rav” and avoiding venue shopping for friendly psak din, perhaps someone could start a website where you could enter your pesachdike food preferences and find a source that is makil or has a mesorah allowingApril 7, 2022 12:43 pm at 12:43 pm #2076540
Once quinoa becomes widely acceptable, and we get used to having bread, pita and pizza made from quinoa, it will be very hard to convince people they shouldn’t use corn (maize). They are both American Indian crops that aren’t among the prohibited grains, and that were used by the American Indians in lieu of the prohibited grains (since before 1492, they prohibited grains were unavailable in America). If you say quinoa is kosher le-pesach, you are calling into question the halacha against kitniyos.April 7, 2022 1:42 pm at 1:42 pm #2076620
The Yaavetz brings from his father, the Chacham Tzvi, who said if I had a quorum, I would be matir kitniyos as the more matzos must be baked it becomes harder to watch out against chametz.April 7, 2022 3:32 pm at 3:32 pm #2076633beisyosefParticipant
I’m not belittling, I’m just saying that I agree with a rishon that the whole thing is shtus. Additionally, as I mentioned the Chacham Tzvi held it’s a bad minhag hamevi leyidei kulah. (as Reb Eliezer mentioned the reason being because it causes more matzos to have to be cooked and are rushed thereby causing ppl to eat chametz. And yes this happens till today. I stopped buying chatzos matzah when I once bought a par-cooked matzah).April 7, 2022 4:41 pm at 4:41 pm #2076671
Saying you “agree” with one shitah of rishonim is arrogant, presumptuous, and belittling of all the other opinions. It’s saying that you’re entitled to decide who among them was more correct. That’s when it’s a typical machlokes.
Here it’s a daas yochid; effectively saying that the vast majority of ashkenaz rishonim and achronim are wrong and that their holy words are chas veshalom “shtus”April 7, 2022 8:20 pm at 8:20 pm #2076789ElyParticipant
@sensibleyid “Yes it seems COR (kashruth council of Canada) has finally relented and allows it“
Do you want have a source for that?April 7, 2022 10:09 pm at 10:09 pm #2076844
Gadol > you could enter your pesachdike food preferences and find a source that is makil or has a mesorah allowing
Great idea, I used that app and I found a great community that paskened to let me eat not just gefilte fish but also sushi! Then came a (literal) wake up call to do selichos for a month! Give me my Manischewitz back with pri hagofen and not shehakol.
So, a correction: you input all desired kulos into the app and you get the best alternative. Mine came back as “Beis Shammai”…April 7, 2022 10:14 pm at 10:14 pm #2076849
akuperman > If you say quinoa is kosher le-pesach, you are calling into question the halacha against kitniyos.
you are proposing a geder on the geder which is generally not done. We get so attached to our beloved minhagim that we “feel” that they are m’deuraita.April 7, 2022 10:15 pm at 10:15 pm #2076848
Reb E & Chacham Tzvi > I would be matir kitniyos as the more matzos must be baked it becomes harder to watch out against chametz.
This is a case where a humrah is not a humrah because it is a kulah in another aspect. Just had it on the Daf Yevamot ~ 30.April 7, 2022 11:26 pm at 11:26 pm #2076856MindfulParticipant
To say kitnius is shtus is not belittleing the rishonim. Rishonim were clear on why they forbid kitnius and the situation that was prevelant in the their region at the time is not relevant to modern day. No one has the guts to cancel a food related stringency, they would be considered modern othrodox. It is only fine to cancel holochos of derech eretz, bein Adam lechavero, or man’s chiyuvim to his wife, as well as many others are fine to cancel. But the more food chumros you pile on the greater you are, and you don’t even have to work on your character.April 8, 2022 7:28 am at 7:28 am #2076870
Tosfas in Betza about burying the dead by the Jews on the second day Yom Tov where you have people who force the Jews to work differentiates a gezeira and a chashosha. A gezeira like second day Yom Tov even though the reason doesn’t apply, is still forbidden. Whereas a chashasha like leaving water uncovered over night and worrying whether a snake might have drunk from it, if they are no snakes it does not apply. Kitniyos is a gezeira and not a chashasha.April 8, 2022 1:26 pm at 1:26 pm #2076914
Thanks for that Reb E.
As someone who can’t eat wheat or potatoes i am very grateful for quinoa.April 8, 2022 5:53 pm at 5:53 pm #2076954
Mindful: “The more food chumros you pile on the greater you are, and you don’t even have to work on your character…..”
So true. Much easier to only eat cholov yisroel pizza than having to worry about being judgemental or lacking in empathy.April 8, 2022 6:36 pm at 6:36 pm #2076956
Am I reading too deeply here too? Disgusting comment. This applies to nobody, no rav or teacher has ever taught such an option. Unlike some factions perhaps where rewriting the halachos is much easier than actually respecting the ones given, no?April 10, 2022 2:36 pm at 2:36 pm #2077173GadolHadofiParticipant
As someone who mocks and denigrates anyone who disagree with you, it’s a bit hypocritical for you to point fingers regarding being judgmental or lacking in empathy.April 10, 2022 2:47 pm at 2:47 pm #2076961
> It is only fine to cancel holochos of derech eretz
Mindful, I am with you on the main points, but maybe we should conclude the opposite – take a lesson from being respectful to medieval kitniyos and apply this attitude to middos.
Also, it is worth celebrating kitniyos – as the new agricultural method that grows beans and wheat in the same fields is responsible for northern Europe overtaking southern in population and power, and similarly of Ashkenazim over SephardimApril 24, 2022 7:21 pm at 7:21 pm #2079525lakewhutParticipant
If it has mainstream hechsherim why be machmir?April 24, 2022 8:35 pm at 8:35 pm #2079534
“If it has mainstream hechsherim why be machmir?..”
For the very reason that they are approved by “mainstream” hashgachos.. If the average frum yid is accepting a certain hashgacha, someone who wants to step above the “average” can only be machmir by relying on a non-mainstream, ultra-conservative hashgachaApril 24, 2022 9:43 pm at 9:43 pm #2079538
Someone mentioned to me offhand that “some are machmir” and are not eating canned tuna …
Would this be a case of being pretty meikil on kavod hamlachim by holding that you would be happy to feed canned tuna to the visiting melech (whether you interpret this as a President, a Governor, an Israeli prime minister, or Gadol b’Torah, or “just” a shabbos guest?)
Imagine, melech Shlomo is coming to your house and you proudly serve him a bishul yisroel tuna sandwich. He might just turn around and decamp to the nearby house that serves a halav stam cake …April 25, 2022 6:19 am at 6:19 am #2079556
AAQ, the “some” who are machmir on canned tuna include rav moshe feinstein. He held that there needs to be a mashgiach on the boat at all times, to prevent mixtures of tuna and crustaceans. Salmon may have been different, since it has a distinct color. The issue didn’t involve bishul akum as far as I know.
The OU allowed it, and certifies bumble bee and other companies that do not have full-time mashgichim. Rav Aharon kotler held this was acceptable.
Canned tuna was one of the very few things that rav belsky would not eat with an OU certification.April 25, 2022 11:24 pm at 11:24 pm #2079893
Avira, these are separate issues. That discussion and my observation apply to the food for melachim.
As to Mix INS, I wonder whether technology and supervision changed for the better from r Moshe’s times? Nets were changed to avoid mammals, and there is solid and chunk tuna that is full or big pieces of fish, rather than a formless mass. What would be the status of crabs in tuna’s stomach?!April 26, 2022 4:10 pm at 4:10 pm #2080071Avram in MDParticipant
“If the average frum yid is accepting a certain hashgacha, someone who wants to step above the “average” can only be machmir by relying on a non-mainstream, ultra-conservative hashgacha”
Let’s not be so cynical. It’s been my experience that those who are “machmir” have reasons for doing so, such as not relying on a specific kula that an agency allows. Many therefore do rely on “mainstream” hashgachos for many items (same as other agencies!), but not for foods where the problematic kula is applied.
None of this has anything to do with derech eretz, mitzvos bein adam l’chaveiro, or spousal obligations. In fact, letting one’s own insecurities generate resentment towards other Jews who may be more stringent with specific halachos is in itself a violation of a mitzva bein adam l’chaveiro. Seriously, just get the chalav Yisroel, pas Yisroel, yoshon, heimishe hechsher, or whatever for your friend, use disposable/sealed packaging as needed, and show some love and respect, and you’ll find that you get it right back.April 26, 2022 4:11 pm at 4:11 pm #2080072Avram in MDParticipant
“Imagine, melech Shlomo is coming to your house and you proudly serve him a bishul yisroel tuna sandwich. He might just turn around and decamp to the nearby house that serves a halav stam cake”
Fish and bread are more prominent meal foods than cake. If you invite me to your house for lunch and serve me a tuna sandwich, great. If you serve me cake, I’d still be grateful of course but I’d think our definitions of what constitutes lunch are different.April 26, 2022 4:50 pm at 4:50 pm #2080112
I couldn’t eat quinoa on pesach this year cuz I left it in the car. But I did make fake bagels from Quinoa flour. If anyone wants to make the argument that quinoa should not be okay because of the flour, taste my bagels first.
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