Home › Forums › Bais Medrash › Will you marry me?
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September 7, 2017 12:44 am at 12:44 am #1357363LightbriteParticipant
If you were an airline pilot whose job was flying banners in the sky for people, and you know for a fact that the Jewish man who wants to hire you to fly a banner saying, “Will you marry me?,” to propose to his nonJewish, what would you do and/or say?
Thank you π
September 7, 2017 1:26 am at 1:26 am #1357399Lilmod UlelamaidParticipantIt doesn’t sound like a job for an ehrliche Yid in the first place, precisely because of the type of problem you mentioned. And I’m sure there are many other problematic banners that people might want you to fly.
I also wonder if it’s even possible for a Shomer Shabbos Yid to have such a job. I think someone told me that it would be hard to find a job as a Shomer Shabbos pilot. I wonder if this would be the same.
Bottom line: find another job!
September 7, 2017 3:59 am at 3:59 am #1357428Little FroggieParticipantI once flew a plane. And I am Shomer Shabbos (I think). And I am still looking for a job (that’s why I’m here so much)
September 7, 2017 4:10 am at 4:10 am #1357443Lilmod UlelamaidParticipantI thought you worked in computers?
What do you mean by “I once flew a plane?” Are you really a pilot or do you mean that you flew on on a plane or that you flew a paper plane?
btw, I checked my above post, and I didn’t write that you CAN’T be a Shomer Shabbos pilot. I wrote that someone told me that it’s hard.
September 7, 2017 6:12 am at 6:12 am #1357449MrFestaGuyParticipantReally, Lilmod Ulilamaid, you think a person shouldn’t be a pilot because maybe somebody will ask him to fly a banner proposing to his non Jewish girlfriend?
Is that also true about someone who owns a print shop, the maybe that’s not a job for a Jew, as someone might ask him to print something to propose to his nj girlfriend?
Or a florist?
Stop with your narishkeit.September 7, 2017 6:12 am at 6:12 am #1357450iacisrmmaParticipantLU: Based on your first response then one shouldn’t be a (florist, caterer, baker, jeweler etc) as you may be asked to do something for the same type of wedding.
September 7, 2017 7:36 am at 7:36 am #1357458Shopping613 πParticipantAsk my Rav…of course! What’ the question?!
September 7, 2017 7:59 am at 7:59 am #1357470Lilmod UlelamaidParticipantspoken like a true seminary graduate!
September 7, 2017 8:03 am at 8:03 am #1357461Lilmod UlelamaidParticipantMrFestaguy &Iacisrmma – I never heard of this job before, but the way that LB described it, I thought it sounded like it involves flying banners that would contain things that are problematic for a Frum Jew most of the time. I don’t know how often the example she gave is likely to occur, but I thought that most of the time there would be other problems.
Again, I don’t know exactly what it’s about, so maybe I’m wrong, but I thought it would be similar to having a job that involves printing advertisements in a goyish magazine. And yes, I don’t think that a Frum Jew should take a job that involves printing advertisements in a goyish magazine. I thought that these banners were advertisements or something similar.
But if I’m wrong, I apologize.
As for the other examples the two of you gave, these things could be a problem there too, and I wouldn’t assume that it’s okay. I would find out how often it is likely to occur and then ask a sheilah about whether or not I should take the job as well as what I should do in such a situation.
September 7, 2017 9:34 am at 9:34 am #1357504LightbriteParticipantThe job title is Banner Tow Pilot, who works in Aerial Advertising.
Technically, maybe even Jews working in marketing and advertising may come across such issues.
But obviously this is personal and in this case, it is taken to a higher level (har har har for the pun π and yes by laughing at it myself, I’ve just maybe made it cheesy… so thanks for sticking with me here).
September 7, 2017 9:34 am at 9:34 am #1357503LightbriteParticipantThank you everyone for understanding my question! Just realized that I didn’t even finish it… or state it in a proper grammatical sense or sentence π
September 7, 2017 9:56 am at 9:56 am #1357511LightbriteParticipantBased on online job descriptions, the Banner Tow Pilot jobs can involve Day or Night signs. I think for a frum Jew, one may be able to negotiate the hours and ensure that the task does not interfere with Shabbos, davening, or family obligations.
It’s not like a commercial pilot where the pilot is confined to a space with another pilot, which may be an issue of yichus, or around untznius women.
If the pilot is flying over a crowd at the beach, that’s also a shaila, because I don’t know if the pilot is close enough to actually see individual people in their likeness. Plus the pilot might be focusing more on the path to fly in the sky, rather than looking down.
September 7, 2017 9:57 am at 9:57 am #1357519LightbriteParticipantThe scary thing is that some pilots crash, and I pray this higher frequency becomes a thing of the past.
As for signs, maybe also advertising non-kosher restaurants or bars might be an issue, since there must be at least one Jew in the crowd. Right?
September 7, 2017 9:57 am at 9:57 am #1357530JosephParticipantRefuse any business for an intermarriage.
September 7, 2017 9:57 am at 9:57 am #1357541LightbriteParticipantMeanwhile, there are plenty of signs that might be totally permissible, or “kosher.”
Examples (from real banners):
The Yellow Pages
Assisted Living Home
Insurance Company
Politician (election campaign)So I guess it also depends on how much control you have over saying which ads you’ll fly, and if your management allows you to refuse a job without consequence.
September 7, 2017 9:57 am at 9:57 am #1357544LightbriteParticipantBut I wonder what a rav would say when someone asks for a “Will you marry me?” Banner.
Are you obligated to find out if the person is Jewish and if so, if the prospective spouse is too?
Do you think that this is like those other religious rights vs civil rights issues for people?
Thanks
September 7, 2017 10:26 am at 10:26 am #1357617ubiquitinParticipantLU
You gave fairly strong advice “Bottom line: find another job!”
considering you admit you dont know what you are talking about“I never heard of this job before, …I thought …I donβt know… I thought …Again, I donβt know exactly what itβs about, so maybe Iβm wrong, but I thought … I thought ”
If you dont know, ask for clarification
September 7, 2017 10:51 am at 10:51 am #1357666apushatayidParticipantIs “mesaye liovrei averia” an issue where the person can easily get what they need from the next person?
September 7, 2017 10:52 am at 10:52 am #1357671iacisrmmaParticipantFor those of us with “gray hair” and remember these types of planes…..they are usually small planes that literally has a banner tied to the back and is usually flown over open areas (e.g. beach). At one time these pilots also were able to leave messages by forming letters with the engine exhaust smoke. As for how low they fly, i don’t think they are looking at the people as much as controlling the plane.
September 7, 2017 10:53 am at 10:53 am #1357673ChaverParticipantMaybe you could fly instead a banner that says DON’T MARRRY HIM HE’S JEWISH.
September 7, 2017 2:49 pm at 2:49 pm #1357861πRebYidd23ParticipantWhen you propose by airplane, you’re not just proposing to the person you want to marry. You’re proposing to everyone in town.
September 7, 2017 3:25 pm at 3:25 pm #1357873DovidBTParticipant“If the pilot is flying over a crowd at the beach, thatβs also a shaila, because I donβt know if the pilot is close enough to actually see individual people in their likeness.”
FAA regulations prohibit flying an airplane that close to people, except for takeoffs and landings.
As far as the Shabbos issue, banner towing is probably a good way to be self-employed, assuming you can find enough customers. But you can do your own advertising. π
It could even be a way of doing kiruv. π
September 7, 2017 7:16 pm at 7:16 pm #1358525πΈDaddysgirl (look at my profile )ParticipantWhen I saw this thread I thought lightbright was proposing to someone……. rotf ππππππππππππππππππππππππππππππππππππ
That woild be cool if some couple were on a date and he pulls his phone out from his pocket and tells his fiancΓ©e to read….. lmho -
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