February 28, 2016 2:26 am at 2:26 am #617307
I tried raising this discussion before, didn’t go very far, so giving it a last ditch effort…
For all my fellow frumies here – if someone gets a pet dog would you still go over to their home?February 28, 2016 4:13 am at 4:13 am #1140426
I would be more likely to come over because I love dogs but can’t have one myself.February 28, 2016 4:32 am at 4:32 am #1140427popa_bar_abbaParticipant
Nope, never come over again. It’s me or that animalFebruary 28, 2016 4:55 am at 4:55 am #1140428
I lived next to a nice goyish family who owned 2 little dogs and my kids enjoyed playing with them outside. We never ‘went over’ to them. No, I would not come over, or let my kids come over, if you owned a dog. Sorry for my narrow mindedness.February 28, 2016 5:56 am at 5:56 am #1140429oilyhairParticipant
noooooFebruary 28, 2016 7:11 am at 7:11 am #1140430Burnt SteakParticipant
The question for me is not if I’d go over, it would be if I’d ever leave their pet dog. Dogs are awesome. Why would people stay away from them?February 28, 2016 12:02 pm at 12:02 pm #1140431
Considering we have 4 dogs, it would not be a consideration in accepting an invitation.
We do tell invited guests that we have dogs and that they are very friendly and like to greet and play with visitors to our home.
We also warn that if you are allergic don’t visit as 2 of the dogs shed, the others have hair not fur.
We have a large fenced yard, and when we retire to the dining room, the dogs will be outside (weather permitting) or closed into the children’s den.
Here in the country, we’d be hard pressed to find non-dog owners, including the shul rabbi.
That being said, we also have a cat, but she lives in the master bedroom suite and doesn’t mix with guests.
We had one particular acquaintance who refused invitations for years based on the dogs, until last year when we had a week of very hot summer weather and she called my wife and asked if she could attend an all ladies swim party wife was hosting for charity. My wife told her only the one female dog would be in attendance.February 28, 2016 12:32 pm at 12:32 pm #1140432apushatayidParticipant
Not without an invitation.February 28, 2016 3:01 pm at 3:01 pm #1140433flatbusherParticipant
Depends on the dog. I have been to houses with big, intimidating dogs and I would hesitate to go. I am not crazy about them, but small ones would not keep me awayFebruary 28, 2016 3:13 pm at 3:13 pm #1140434blubluhParticipant
Remember that some people (or their kids) have allergies to certain animals, so it’s always important to inform your potential guests like you would inquire about food allergies, etc.
Then, there are people who have a fear of animals no matter how friendly your think your pet is. Oddly, it’s sometimes the friendliest pet that frightens people the most because of its excitedly happy reaction to the visitors.
By the way, it’s not just dog owners, but also those with cats, large parrots, etc. who need to give this some thought.February 28, 2016 4:00 pm at 4:00 pm #1140435yehudayonaParticipant
I do home-based early intervention. Several of the homes I go to have dogs (mostly the little yappy types). As long as they’re kept from interfering with my work, I don’t care. At one of the homes I used to work at, I once saw another frum therapist who clearly had a fear of the dog. I wish the frum world weren’t so anti-dog, since fear of dogs is an impediment in this society.
A while ago, we had a dog, one that my daughter brought home. I found that while I was walking the dog, my non-Jewish neighbors, who usually ignore the frum people in the area, were quite friendly. I guess owning a dog doesn’t make you seem so alien in their eyes.February 28, 2016 6:23 pm at 6:23 pm #1140436
Right now the only thing holding me back from getting a dog is that it seems my family will get looked down at.February 28, 2016 6:32 pm at 6:32 pm #1140437YW Moderator-29 👨💻Moderator
Yea, that’s the only reason I don’t have cable.February 28, 2016 8:39 pm at 8:39 pm #1140438takahmamashParticipant
If you’re in shidduchim and people hear that you have a dog, psssssssst, that’s it.February 28, 2016 9:21 pm at 9:21 pm #1140439–Participant
Yea, that’s the only reason I don’t have cable.
Your IP block indicates otherwise.
Comcast Cable Communications, IP Services EDITED-10February 28, 2016 9:31 pm at 9:31 pm #1140440MaidofCHParticipant
(To takahmamash) Same with a cat. I’ll never forget a friend of mine who, during a visit with a shadchan, casually glanced at her watch and said, “I have to go home and feed my cat.”
“A cat!” the shadchan exclaimed. “Don’t tell anyone you own a cat!”
The notion of pets seems goyish to the East European set, who are generally very cold to animals. I generally avoid dogs and cats because of allergies. And while I respect animals, and despise any cruelty toward them, they are of no interest to me as far as pets.
Nevertheless, I understand why people like them. For some, pets can be therapeutic.February 28, 2016 10:09 pm at 10:09 pm #1140441
I think people who don’t like someone because they have a pet are jerks. So having a pet is a good way to filter out all those jerks.February 28, 2016 10:14 pm at 10:14 pm #1140442HealthParticipant
MaidofCH -“I’ll never forget a friend of mine who, during a visit with a shadchan, casually glanced at her watch and said, “I have to go home and feed my cat.””
I’m in Shidduchem, but we have cats. Really they aren’t ours, but they live outside of our house. They get fed by the Goyishe neighbor!February 28, 2016 10:38 pm at 10:38 pm #1140443YW Moderator-29 👨💻Moderator
Well that’s kind of creepy.February 28, 2016 11:37 pm at 11:37 pm #1140444writersoulParticipant
About that dog- that literally just happened with the family of someone I know. The mother really wanted a dog, so she bought one. A week later, she was advertising for a home for it, as she’d just been told that having a dog could ruin shidduch chances for her daughter. I was super shocked.February 29, 2016 1:11 am at 1:11 am #1140445
Hence why I strongly believe that from oilem is fooling themselves with the age gap nonsense. The shidduchim crisis is due to the overwhelming pickiness and nonsense which is espoused in the shidduchim process.February 29, 2016 1:57 am at 1:57 am #1140446
How do you define the shidduchim crisis?February 29, 2016 2:15 am at 2:15 am #1140447
That there are so many singles in the community who are desparate to get married. Now I’m not sure I would qualify that as a crisis per se, but all the forum publications have. Personal crisis it certainly is, not sure about it being a national crisis.
But as I said above, I don’t buy into the age-gap nonsense. It has more to do with how ridiculous the process has become.February 29, 2016 2:42 am at 2:42 am #1140448
The way you define it, it has little to do with age gap.
The way others define it, as not enough boys for the girls, it has a lot to do with age gap.February 29, 2016 2:46 am at 2:46 am #1140449JosephParticipant
Anecdotally, a lot more older singles have pets than the average frum families. Hence we see pets are bad for shidduch opportunities.February 29, 2016 2:51 am at 2:51 am #1140450
Siman, sibah, or misovev?February 29, 2016 3:06 am at 3:06 am #1140451HealthParticipant
SpeakerAV -“Hence why I strongly believe that from oilem is fooling themselves with the age gap nonsense. The shidduchim crisis is due to the overwhelming pickiness and nonsense which is espoused in the shidduchim process.”
I strongly agree!
And all these topics in the CR, that are about the Shidduch crisis are basically Nonsense!February 29, 2016 3:29 am at 3:29 am #1140452
The age gap isn’t completely made up, it just isn’t universal and isn’t the only factor.February 29, 2016 4:32 am at 4:32 am #1140453
I hate dogs. They smell gross and are stupid. people who dont want to consider you because you own a dog probably also smell bad and are probably also stupid. Especially if their only reason for counting you out is because that’s what everyone else is doing.February 29, 2016 4:41 am at 4:41 am #1140454
Babies also smell gross and are stupid, but grown ups don’t just tolerate them. Most people actually like babies. It’s “oh how cute, he just scratched his adorable little nose”, not “this baby is disgusting but will with proper care one day grow up to be a wonderful member of society”.February 29, 2016 4:56 am at 4:56 am #1140455
not many dogs grow up to be wonderful members of societyFebruary 29, 2016 5:39 am at 5:39 am #1140456
Syag, to the contrary. Dogs can contribute greatly if trained right.February 29, 2016 5:54 am at 5:54 am #1140457
sure they can contribute, but members of society?February 29, 2016 1:05 pm at 1:05 pm #1140458
“Babies also smell gross and are stupid”
Maybe your babies! Ever heard of baby lotion? Babies are bright and beautiful. How some of them end up gross and stupid when they grow up is an anomaly.February 29, 2016 6:44 pm at 6:44 pm #1140459
Baby lotion does not stop babies from smelling gross. They constantly spit up and dirty their diapers.March 1, 2016 4:39 am at 4:39 am #1140460
So what is the reason why so many from people have an issue with non-aggressive dogs?March 6, 2016 2:57 am at 2:57 am #1140461
anyone?March 6, 2016 1:54 pm at 1:54 pm #1140462
It is a fear/loathing imbedded in our DNA. Dogs were used to persecute yidden starting with Mitzrayim all the way to WWll.March 6, 2016 3:53 pm at 3:53 pm #1140463
It is not embedded in your DNA, it may have been drilled into your psyche by your parents, grandparents, teachers and other elders.
Attack animals have been used to control people of all kinds over the millenia. Dogs don’t persecute people, other people do, and they use assorted tools to aid in the task.I type this at my desk. My 8 year old Yorkie is lying in a bed on the desk next to the computer. My grandson is on the rug playing with two of our other dogs.
My brother in law, who has lost his sight in a 30 year battle with diabetes is training to walk with a seeing eye dog. We are all comfortable with dogs, all grew up with them as pets and have no embedded fear/loathing in our DNA.March 6, 2016 4:39 pm at 4:39 pm #1140464JosephParticipant
“Dogs don’t persecute people, other people do”
You sound like a guns rights activist.March 6, 2016 5:16 pm at 5:16 pm #1140465takahmamashParticipant
It is a fear/loathing imbedded in our DNA.
Do you know how ridiculous you sound?March 6, 2016 6:41 pm at 6:41 pm #1140466dovrosenbaumParticipant
I don’t mind dogs, but what sickens me is the obsession people have with pets, often spending money on veterinarian bills, when that money could have gone to serve the needs of people.
The Rema’s psakim on tzaar baalei chaim match up with the Bereshis narrative that clearly gives man dominion over the rest of creation.March 6, 2016 8:01 pm at 8:01 pm #1140467
“Do you know how ridiculous you sound?”
ouchMarch 6, 2016 8:31 pm at 8:31 pm #1140468
How wrong your observation is. I am the complete opposite of a pro-gun activist.
I’ll not get into such a debate on this board as I don’t hope to change minds and my mind won’t be changed either.March 6, 2016 8:44 pm at 8:44 pm #1140469
to put it bluntly, who are you to decide whether I should spend money on a veterinarian bill or have to give that same amount of money away to “serve the needs of the people?”
That sounds like the dogma of a totalitarian or Communist state.
What I earn is mine. I give far more than the biblical tithe in tzedaka. If it gives my family pleasure to have pets and maintain them in a healthy state, it is not for someone else to decide that ‘my money’ should have gone to meet needs of other people.
That attitude is no different than begrudging my wife a new dress for Pesach or suggesting we eat noodles instead of beef, because the additional cost could have been spent on the needs of other people.
As long as I make the money and am properly charitable, I am entitled to spend the rest as I see fit, as long as it is legal and moral.
Besides, Veterinarians are entitled to make a living. They have great expenses in their education and equipping a practice. Who are you to say they shouldn’t have a chance to recover the cost and provide for their families.
As long as I am not asking others for financial help for my family, you have no right to pass judgment on my spending.
Before Pesach, I am marrying off a daughter. I am not going into debt to do so. It may be a more lavish simcha than you think necessary. But it will provide parnassah for the venue, caterer/workers, orchestra, florist, baker, and other vendors. What’s more for every dollar spent on my daughter’s simcha 50 cents is being donated to a Kallah fund. I have no obligation to do so, I do it gladly.March 6, 2016 11:57 pm at 11:57 pm #1140470dovrosenbaumParticipant
It just seems to me that there’s a blurring of the boundary between adam and chaya these days. People treating their dogs like people, with clothing, expensive treatments, etc. is just sickening to me. One of many moral faults with our decadent culture.March 7, 2016 1:05 am at 1:05 am #1140471
As I’ve stated I have 4 dogs. They are dogs, they are not people. Their only clothing are woven collars necessary to both hold their license and rabies tags and attach the leash if need be.
They are all rescues, not expensive purchases from puppy mill breeder.
That said, if they take ill, they receive appropriate medical care. One doesn’t just end a life because medical care costs money. Even if that life is canine, not human.
Expensive is a relative term. I don’t know what you earn, it’s none of my business. You don’t know what I earn, it’s none of your business, suffice it to say I would not have 4 dogs and their accompanying expenses if I could not easily afford it and all my other obligations are met.March 7, 2016 3:22 am at 3:22 am #1140472popa_bar_abbaParticipant
CTLawyer: It’s totally your right and completely normal to spend money on stuff you like. But I’m not buying the moralizing. When you spend money on your animal’s health instead of giving it to help a sick human, you’re spending the money to make yourself happy and that’s it. If you think it’s a moral duty, that’s just gross.March 7, 2016 3:29 am at 3:29 am #1140473
There is a story, of a tzaddik who watched a German kissing his dog before WWll. He said, a person who kisses a dog will one day kill people.March 7, 2016 3:37 am at 3:37 am #1140474
Some dogs need to wear clothing.
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