Winning Lottery on Shabbos

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  • #1699693

    ZionGate
    Participant

    What’s the halacha about purchasing a ticket on a weekday, but the drawing is on Friday night (Shabbos) , and mazal tov !
    You won money on Shabbos.

    #1699731

    Joseph
    Participant

    You need to throw away the winning ticket.

    #1699739

    ChadGadya
    Participant

    If the draw is done by non-jews what could the problem be? (Also, the money isn’t yours until they give it to you.)

    #1699740

    ZionGate
    Participant

    Joseph,
    I don’t buy such tickets.
    But…. tell me how you quickly changed from UJM to Joseph when you 1st responded a few minutes ago?

    #1699773

    ZionGate
    Participant

    ChadGadya,
    But it’s your dollar , and you as a Jew invested to chance winning on Shabbos. Why should the drawers or drawing machine make any difference? Or when you get the money?

    #1699777

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    What would the issur be?

    #1699780

    ZionGate
    Participant

    DY,
    That’s what I’d want to know. Would you be comfortable with the millions won on Shabbos? It can’t be so poshut.

    #1699782

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Why can’t it be poshut? What issur do you think is involved?

    #1699784

    Meno
    Participant

    mazal tov !
    You won money on Shabbos.

    Thank you! IY’H by you!

    #1699786

    ZionGate
    Participant

    Making money on Shabbos with a Jewish dollar, all 100 pennies owned by him, not by a non- Jew.
    You see nothing inappropriate here.?

    #1699787

    ZionGate
    Participant

    Rabbi Yair Hoffman;
    Can you please do a column on this one?

    #1699811

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Meno seems pretty comfortable.

    #1699835

    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Ziongate

    Do you own stocks or do you sell it every week in the winter when shabbos starts before 5 pm?

    Anyways it’s not your money until you claim it

    והראיה if you “won the drawing on December 31st But you don’t claim it until January you have to report it on next years taxes

    #1699845

    ZionGate
    Participant

    CA,
    So I want to know if lottery and stocks are in every aspect the
    the same. I’ve a question whether they in fact are , and if yes, the that would answer it.

    #1699848

    Meno
    Participant

    If someone drops a million dollars in my mailbox on shabbos, am I not allowed to keep it?

    #1699853

    ZionGate
    Participant

    CA,
    I don ‘t quite get the claiming . If you won the drawing then it’s yours. How and when you claim or report it for tax purposes seems like a separate issue .

    #1699854

    ZionGate
    Participant

    Meno,
    I’d say yes, if no other issues are behind it.

    #1699860

    Meno
    Participant

    ZionGate.

    Yes I’m allowed, or not allowed?

    Also, it’s not yours until you claim it. If you don’t claim it by a certain deadline, you forfeit it.

    #1699872

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    If you won the drawing then it’s yours.

    No, it isn’t until you receive it. You don’t make any kinyan by holding a ticket with a winning number.

    #1699879

    ZionGate
    Participant

    Meno,
    Yes, I think you’re allowed.

    I understand the forfeiting part.
    So you’re saying it’s not a problem if one claims the draw on a Monday even though he won it Shabbos .

    #1699881

    ZionGate
    Participant

    DY,
    I hear you, but I’d like for poskim to weigh in, because at his time, as I told Josep…er, ujm , above, I haven’t bought Friday night drawings.

    #1699887

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    So go ask your posek…

    #1699893

    Dr. E
    Participant

    I’m sure that there is a Rosh Yeshiva out there who will find this totally permissible and you will be duly honored at the next dinner. And if it’s Powerball, your wife can even get into the photo with you.

    #1699898

    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Ziongate,

    Reporting is for income purposes

    If you don’t have to report it yet because not income in that year

    #1699900

    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    And that’s not what you asked in your op

    #1699902

    ZionGate
    Participant

    Dr E,
    He’ll allow my wife’s pic? But the usual pubs will Photoshop her out, the single women will think I’m single too , get my # and harass me, then my wife’ll suspect I’m doubletiming her.
    It ain’t worth it. Never mind kinyans, non-claims and such.
    You gave me the best answer yet.

    #1699904

    ZionGate
    Participant

    CA… my op implies any issues which may affect the drawing such as we’re discussing.

    #1699906

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    You’ve been very vague as to which issues you think there might be.

    #1699915

    ZionGate
    Participant

    DY,
    My issue is not vague.. It’s making money on Shabbos.
    You guys are giving good answers why it’s not necessarily so.
    However, I’m not yet comfortable with lottery winning, there may other issues here, and that’s why it SEEMS vague..
    You want me to give an explicit halachic reason and I don’t have one, that’s why I’m asking…. just like an another sheilah one would ask… It’s certainly not a no-brainer, because stocks have also been discussed over the years as to Shabbos ramifications.

    #1699920

    Meno
    Participant

    Are you here for a psak, or are you here to hock it out?

    If it’s the former, this not the place for it. If it’s the latter, you’re not doing a very good job.

    #1699924

    ZionGate
    Participant

    Meno,
    Feel free to skip it over especially if you’re still hung over..
    In fact skip 90% of the CR . No reason to be nasty espec on Shushan Purim.
    You don’t think my q is legit?? Move on bro…

    #1699929

    Meno
    Participant

    I’m not your bro, boss.

    #1699930

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    Disclaimer:
    #1 I don’t buy lottery tickets
    #2 I have set up trusts for clients who have won multi-million dollar lottery prizes
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    That said, when purchasing a ticket for a lottery that has a Shabbos drawing, you are NOT buying a chance for a prize that will definitely be awarded on Shabbos. Very often there is no winner and the pool grows and the next drawing occurs on a weekday.
    This is different than buying a raffle ticket with a set prize drawing on Shabbos…knowing that all prizes will
    be awarded then.

    We had this discussion with our shul Rav when all houses of worship in our town were asked to sell raffle tickets to members to raise funds for a new ambulance for the volunteer corps. A Friday night was set for the drawing. Our Rav insisted that the drawing be changed to Monday so Jews,Christians and Moslems would not have issues with the date.

    #1699946

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    It’s making money on Shabbos.

    You didn’t make money on Shabbos.

    It’s certainly not a no-brainer, because stocks have also been discussed over the years as to Shabbos ramifications.

    I don’t think anyone ever questioned owning stocks over Shabbos (or, at least, it’s pretty much been settled), even though the company is open over Shabbos and the value might go up (more relevant to Yom Tov since markets are open).

    I think the issues discussed are orders to automatically buy or sell at a certain price.

    #1699954

    ZionGate
    Participant

    DY “….. don’t think anyone ever questioned owning stocks over Shabbos (or, at least, it’s pretty much been settled…
    Yes, they did question it, and yes, it’s pretty much settled as far as stocks are concerned.

    @ CTL
    “…..are NOT buying a chance for a prize that will definitely be awarded on Shabbos. Very often there is no winner and the pool grows and the next drawing occurs on a weekday….”:

    Interesting take which I didn’t think of, but eventually the numbers come in and may yet be on Shabbos.
    Which leads me to your Rav’s insistence that the raffle not be drawn of Friday night because of Jews, etc.
    Can you recall his reason? Because that can impact a Shabbos winning draw …. Or no?

    #1699957

    ZionGate
    Participant

    DY,
    Forgot to mention that to my recollection, Yom Tov was also in the discussion.

    #1699975

    Chaimy
    Participant

    Are you buying a lottery ticket or not? Are you afraid you might win and can’t collect it? Just give me the ticket if it wins we can ask than.

    #1700017

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @ziongate

    Our Rav was concerned about Maris Ayin, that the shul was participating in a raffle drawing conducted on Shabbos and the some might think attendance at the drawing was appropriate since the shul sold tickets,
    By moving the raffle to a Mon-Thursday,no house of worship would have congregants tempted to attend the drawing instead of religious services.
    Remember, OOT, many Orthodox shuls have a large percentage of their membership who are not observant but belong because of familial ties (names on the plaques, windows, cemetery rights and plots etc.).

    #1700049

    Brooklyn Yenta
    Participant

    Rav Moshe has a tshuvah on interest earned over shabbos/yom tov, he has an issue with it
    I would imagine the same issue would apply to the lottery ticket. I personally know a Rav who paskened it’s a problem.

    #1700070

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    I would imagine the same issue would apply to the lottery ticket.

    They’re not the same. You earn interest for every day they hold your money, so it’s schar Shabbos (although it’s only a problem when Shabbos is right next to Yom Tov, because they calculate from midnight to midnight, part of which isn’t Shabbos, so on a regular Shabbos, it’s muttar because of havla’ah).

    With winning a lottery, there’s no schar Shabbos. You don’t actually earn anything on Shabbos.

    #1700160

    Chaimy
    Participant

    the bearer of the ticket is the winner. It might not be the purchaser so make the ticket hefker and than after Shabbos make a new kinyan.

    #1700177

    ZionGate
    Participant

    Chaimy,
    A little bird sang to me that your motzei zman is earlier than mine. By the time I step out at Shmonei Esrei you’ll already’ve made kinyan on my hefker ticket. My mom didn’t raise a fool…
    LOLOL…

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