January 22, 2019 11:27 am at 11:27 am #1665933
Maggid of PinskParticipant
My wife has recently started turning up to shacharis after borchu. What should I say/do to her to try and bring her back on the derech hayoshor?!
Thank you so much in advance for your helpful suggestions!January 22, 2019 12:02 pm at 12:02 pm #1666097
Switch to a hashkoma davening so that when she turns up, they’re already halfway through the leining.January 22, 2019 12:50 pm at 12:50 pm #1666131
To Avram: How does that solve the Magid’s problem?? He is obviously dealing with a complex “relationship” issues which has caused him great suffering and is threatening his reputation among the other daveners who might suspend him from the Kiddush club or invoke other sanctions.
As a starter, remember the origins and current role of hashkama minyanim. Most were established by frum shuls back in the early 1900s for the poor “greeners” who had to work on Shabbos at low-skilled factory jobs and risked losing those jobs (and their livelihood) if they arrived late to work (at a time that a six-day workweek was the norm). Over the decades they evolved so that in many cases the husband will attend the hashkama minyan and then the wife (who was watching the yinglach) could occasionally attend the regular shacharit service. Most importantly, the hashkamah minyan in many shuls is held in a smaller room or “chapel” w/o a mechitzah so if the poor Magid’s wife showed up for the early minyan, it would create total chaos and prompt another question here in the CR as to what to do when there is no varbeshe section?January 22, 2019 1:19 pm at 1:19 pm #1666151
Consider yourself lucky.
There are a few young husbands in my neighborhood who show up at the 2nd Yekum Purkan.January 22, 2019 1:19 pm at 1:19 pm #1666155
“How does that solve the Magid’s problem??”
Easy. He’s upset that his wife is “turning up” too early in the davening, so I proposed a solution where she does not have to alter her arrival time, but now arrives at the proper time he thinks a woman should arrive.
“He is obviously dealing with a complex “relationship” issues”
I solved the problem he presented to the CR. Let’s not go out looking for more problems.January 22, 2019 2:06 pm at 2:06 pm #1666171
GH: I took it that the OP was upset that his wife was showing up later then used to not earlier.January 22, 2019 2:08 pm at 2:08 pm #1666176
As a starter, remember the origins and current role of hashkama minyanim.
Current? I don’t know orthodox people still go to shul and work thereafter on shabbos!
Additionally most shuls daven past סזק״ש according to the מג״א
People who are מקפיד daven hashkamaJanuary 22, 2019 2:26 pm at 2:26 pm #1666200
She’s probably preparing the family meal, which is her primary duty. So she’s doing the right thing. Compliment her.January 22, 2019 2:26 pm at 2:26 pm #1666201
“Additionally most shuls daven past סזק״ש according to the מג״א
People who are מקפיד daven hashkama”
Or they make sure to say krias shema before the zman, like at the table on Friday night after dark.January 22, 2019 6:45 pm at 6:45 pm #1666377
Avram in md,
Or they make sure to say krias shema before the zman, like at the table on Friday night after dark.
That works but it’s better to say בזמן during תפילהJanuary 22, 2019 6:45 pm at 6:45 pm #1666400
Coffee addict, relax. It was worded clearly but he mrant the original role was to allow people to get to work and the current role is to allow the wife to go to the regular minyanJanuary 22, 2019 6:45 pm at 6:45 pm #1666410
Maybe I missing something, but I’m trying to understand the problem OP has.
Is his wife showing up too early?
Is even showing up the problem?
Is there a מחיצה?
Why is he looking over there?January 22, 2019 6:58 pm at 6:58 pm #1666431
☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
Is his wife showing up too early?
Is even showing up the problem?
Yes, after borchu.
Is there a מחיצה?
Why is he looking over there?
He’s looking for his wife.
(These questions remind me of the people who try to find the lomdus and farenfer all the stiros in Harry Potter)January 22, 2019 9:37 pm at 9:37 pm #1666435
OP pulling legs here… Nothing wrong with a little fun.🤣January 22, 2019 9:37 pm at 9:37 pm #1666453
…. And MDG…. Don’t get startled, but the saintly Maggid may be right here among us . Actually hiding from his metziyeh… Look closely , but be nonchalant about it..January 22, 2019 9:39 pm at 9:39 pm #1666464
Aye, maggid’l , maggid’l…..
Maaaaaaaaaaagid’l maggid’l…😉😉😉January 23, 2019 12:42 am at 12:42 am #1666787
He’s upset because his wife showed up at borchu but the toddler at korbonos.January 23, 2019 5:34 am at 5:34 am #1666945
Everyone has to chill out and just wait for Mashiach to comeJanuary 23, 2019 8:32 am at 8:32 am #1667043
He’s upset because his wife showed up at borchu but the toddler at korbonos.
Don’t you mean “He’s upset because his wife showed up at borchu but she comes at korbonos.“
And finds him at the kiddush clubJanuary 23, 2019 9:59 am at 9:59 am #1667064
The Kol Bo says that the Torah patters the women from time dependent mitzvos because their responsibility is towards their husband and family, so davening with a minyan was never their responsibility.January 23, 2019 10:00 am at 10:00 am #1667066
What are the rules in your shul with regard to women attending the Kiddush club if they arrive early for davening as in the the Magid’s sad tale? Do you need to have a mechitzah in the small room the gabbai has designated for the KC? Do you alternate and all the men go back in to the davening to hear the Rav’s dvar torah so the women can go in an get some hootch? There must be some clear guidelines for the womens’ Kiddush club operations.January 23, 2019 10:20 am at 10:20 am #1667130
The only guideline for women at any kiddush , bar mitzvah or sheva brochus that I’ve seen, are the ubiquitous liquirs of 100 flavors ; peach, mango, chocolate, watermelon, coffee, garlic, etc. .. . You know, ladies’ drinks. No bourbon, vodka, scotch to be displayed for the stronger gender..January 23, 2019 12:15 pm at 12:15 pm #1667138
Shes probably coming late becaise thats wht her mother did you need to have a serious conversation with your mil about how she raised her children.January 23, 2019 12:15 pm at 12:15 pm #1667141
“peach, mango, chocolate, watermelon, coffee, garlic, etc.”
Can you tell me where I can get my hands on some garlic-flavored liquor?January 23, 2019 12:49 pm at 12:49 pm #1667173
Shes probably coming late becaise thats wht her mother did you need to have a serious conversation with your mil about how she raised her children.
So trueJanuary 23, 2019 12:50 pm at 12:50 pm #1667177
Re: garlic liquor
Sold out, I was just told. The gabbai’s wife with the blue floppy shul hat is ordering again. Let’s be patient.January 23, 2019 1:03 pm at 1:03 pm #1667198
On a serious note, although it will upset some of the more machmir CR regulars, there are many MO shuls where women are now regular KC attendees with the local minhagim varying from shul to shul. And no, they don’t serve the gals flavored sugar syrup mixed with alcohol in lieu of real (big-boy) drinks….they imbibe the same stuff as the guys do with gusto..January 23, 2019 1:58 pm at 1:58 pm #1667210
Do they still have sugary, syrupy schnapps for guys like me who are… secure with our masculinity as we like to call it…?January 23, 2019 3:44 pm at 3:44 pm #1667346
On a serious note, although it will upset some of the more machmir CR regulars, there are many MO shuls where women are now regular KC attendees with the local minhagim varying from shul to shul. And no, they don’t serve the gals flavored sugar syrup mixed with alcohol in lieu of real (big-boy) drinks….they imbibe the same stuff as the guys do with gusto..
I wouldn’t expect anything less (sadly)January 23, 2019 5:34 pm at 5:34 pm #1667355
Moving even further off-topic, according to data from the national trade association for the liquor industry, the largest growth segment for the high end scotch, whiskey and clear spirits market are millennial women. Sadly, their data does not break out the growth rate among women of various religious backgrounds so we have no way of knowing if female Kiddush Club attendees (possibly including the Magidah of Pinsk) are part of that growth. Also, there is the additional factor of fewer Kiddush clubs holding forth during Hashkamah minyanim since most ehrliche yidden have some difficulty belting back a double scotch before they’ve had their leftover cholent and Corn Flakes for breakfast.January 23, 2019 8:12 pm at 8:12 pm #1667418
for familial reasons i once davened at shirah chadashah. the first thing i noticed was a top to bottom mechitzah. the second was that prior to youth groups, the young urchins were mostly in the men’s section so their mothers can have proper kavanah. 🙂
then again while only men had kohen and levi, the mother of the bar mitzvah had shilishi, unseen from the other side of the mechitzah, she stood next to table protruding on both sides of the mechitzah. 🙂January 23, 2019 8:35 pm at 8:35 pm #1667481
Dr Yidd: Sounds remarkably egalitarian which will upsetting to most of the resident poskim.January 23, 2019 9:09 pm at 9:09 pm #1667487
It should bother you tooJanuary 23, 2019 9:43 pm at 9:43 pm #1667500
Dryidd: bothers me.January 23, 2019 10:58 pm at 10:58 pm #1667530
it is avant-garde even for egalitarian minyanim. but the drasha by the rabbanit was superb; better than the vast majority of her male counterparts. you cannot expect less from the daughter of ,,,,,,,, 🙂
shlishi for anyone, man or woman, who can identify the rabbanit and a shot of 25-year-old Macallan (after the derasha) 🙂 🙂
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