Women Learning Gemara

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  • #2015595
    DaMoshe
    Participant

    R’ Chaim Jachter wrote a terrific article going through both sides of this argument. Here are some of the points:

    Opposition to women learning Gemara:
    Even though the Chafetz Chaim endorsed the Bait Yaakov movement he did not specifically approve the teaching of Gemara to women. He explains his position in his commentary to Sotah 20a (in his Sefer, Likutei Halachot):

    It seems to me that this [issue of refraining from teaching Torah to women] applies only at those times in history when everyone lived in the place of his ancestors and the Mesora was very strong for all, and this constituted sufficient motivation for everyone to act in the same manner as their forbearers….In this type of situation we can say that women should not study Torah and women will learn the ways of Torah by emulating their righteous parents. Today, however, when the Mesora has become very weakened, and it is common for people to live far away from their parents, and women learn to read and write a secular language, it is a great Mitzva to teach women Tanach and the Mussar of Chazal from Pirkei Avot and Menorat Hamaor, so that the truth of our Mesora will become evident to them. The alternative, God forbid, is for women to deviate entirely from the way of Hashem and Torah.

    The Satmar Rebbe (Vayoel Moshe pages 451‑452) points out that the Chafetz Chaim limited his permission to the study of Tanach and Mussar. Similarly, Rav Moshe Feinstein (Igrot Moshe Y.D. 3:87) rules that women may not study Mishnayot with the sole exception of Pirkei Avot.

    In favor of women learning Gemara:
    R’ Meyer Twerski explained the reasoning of his grandfather, R’ YB Soloveitchik, in allowing women to learn Gemara:
    The Halacha prohibiting Torah study for women is not indiscriminate or all‑encompassing. There is complete unanimity that women are obligated to study Halachot pertaining to Mitzvot which are incumbent upon them (Rama Y.D.246:6). Clearly, men are permitted to provide instruction in these areas. A father’s obligation of Chinuch relates equally to sons and daughters (see, for example, Yoma 82a). The prohibition of teaching the Oral Law to women relates to optional study. If ever circumstances dictate that study of the Oral Law is necessary to provide a firm foundation for faith, such study becomes obligatory and obviously lies beyond the pale of any prohibition. Undoubtedly, the Rav’s prescription was more far‑reaching than that of the Chafetz Chaim and others. But the difference in magnitude should not obscure their fundamental agreement: intuitively, it is clear that the guidelines of the Talmud in Masechet Sotah were never intended for our epoch. This is not an instance of modernism, but Torah intuition.

    The Tzitz Eliezer (9:3) appears to agree with this.

    R’ Ahron Soloveitchik cited the Torah Temima (Devarim 11:19) who quotes the Teshuvot Maayan Ganim. This authority writes that Chazal only prohibited coercing women to study Torah. If, however, they choose to learn Torah, then they deserve full support of the community.

    Rav Chaim David Halevi (Teshuvot Asei Lecha Rav 2:52) adopts a similar approach. He writes that high school girls who wish to study Torah are permitted to do so. He cites the Chida as supporting this view (also see Prisha to Y.D. 246). Rav Yehuda Henkin (Teshuvot Bnei Banim 3:12) points out that this approach explains the phenomenon of women in various generations who were Torah scholars. The examples of outstanding women Torah scholars include Bruriah (see Pesachim 62b and Eruvin 53b), the mother of the Prisha (whom the Prisha occasionally quotes and notes that she was proficient in many areas of Halacha), the grandmother of the Maharshal, the wife of the Netziv, the wife of Rav Isser Zalman Meltzer (regarding whom it is said that she helped edit the Even Haezel ‑ Rav Isser Zalman’s commentary to the Rambam) and Nechama Leibowitz.

    Rav Aharon Lichtenstein often points out that Talmud Torah promotes Ahavat Hashem (see the Rambam’s Sefer HaMitzvot, Mitzva number three). Thus he argues that women who study Torah have the opportunity to fulfill the Mitzva of Ahavat Hashem. Rav Lichtenstein and Rav Henkin argue that women who study secular studies at the highest level should also study Torah at the highest levels including the study of Gemara. Rav Amital and others report that the Lubavitcher Rebbe supported the idea of women studying Gemara.

    Yes, I copied and pasted most of this, so you can look it up for yourself if you choose to.

    #2015736
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    As I pointed out on the other thread, R Soloveitchik’s position that a woman learning secular studies must also learn gemara has been shown in real life to be incorrect.

    The controversy isn’t about a self motivated woman learning on her own, so the second part of your post is irrelevant.

    #2015754
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    The ehrliche poskim can debate the issue until z’man moishiach but the reality is that more girls today ARE learning talmud than ever before both in school and increasingly. in one of many regular online weekly learning sessions and podcasts. The pro/con arguments summarized above by damoshe are very informative but ultimately aren’t going to dissuade a baas yisroel who wants to learn and has found an appropriate venue.

    #2015758
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    “Thus he argues that women who study Torah have the opportunity to fulfill the Mitzva of Ahavat Hashem.”

    Women intrinsically have אהבת ה׳ since they didn’t sin by the עגל & מרגלים

    #2015766
    AviraDeArah
    Participant

    As was pointed out earlier, in quoting the satmar rov in contrast to the “pashtus” of the chofetz chaim, jachter is making a ghastly straw man argument and ignoring the open rambam which makes the distinction between torah shebichsav and Torah she baal peh. He is making it out to be that the chofetz chaim allowed basically everything but didn’t specify gemara, and comes the extremist and says “oh but he didn’t say gemara! So gemara must be different”, without framing this distinction as a crystal clear rambam.

    His quotes about individual women learning have nothing to do with the obligatory gemara studies in MO schools…he admits this himself by his quote from the mayim ganim.

    The comparison to secular studies stems from haskalah that makes an equivalence or at least a comparison between the intellect employed in true talmud torah to the methods used in science and math. This can be no further from the truth, but the purim torah made by self styled female “rabbits” proves this point quite easily… They have no capacity to “horev” over a rishon and come up with deep lomdus….they aren’t trained to do more than read the words and compare texts.

    #2015792
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    A woman can learn what she is mechuyeves, responsible like candle lighting. The aishes sema ruled that on Yom Tov the brocho should be said before lighting on which the Magen Avraham argues. The Chasam Sofer in Shabbos 24, on the mishna ein sorfim kodeshim be’yom tov. makes two rulings of hers related to each other.

    #2015794
    ujm
    Participant

    “but the reality is that more girls today ARE learning talmud than ever before both in school… but ultimately aren’t going to dissuade a baas yisroel who wants to…”

    The reality today is that more people cheat, wear short skirts and watch treif movies. They, too, aren’t going to be dissuaded by lectures, since they “want to.”

    #2015804

    I think we are narrowing down number of issues. Let me try to summarize consensus and disagreements. See if you agree:

    agreements:
    A1) A woman CAN learn whatever she wants and teachers will not send her away (Beruriah, etc)

    A2) communally, most agree that women need to learn relevant halakhot at much higher level than in previous generations due to change in lifestyle

    disagreements:
    D1) Who may/can/should learn.
    The question is of a communal policy of mass learning. Some may indeed feel “obligatory” as part of sending to MO school. In fact, when I told one learned friend what high school my daughters will go, exclaimed “And they will not learn Gemorah!?”. Still, I think even an ardent MO person will not press Satmar ladies into that, so it is more of “mass” than “obligatory”

    D2) what are “relevant halakhot” – one extreme “candle lighting”, opposite “ahavat Hashem” that is so vague that includes everything
    Chafetz Chaim is not at the first extreme with his suggestion of “pirkei avos”
    Current BY curriculum is also somewhat beyond that

    D3) how deep? one extreme – halakhot l’maase, another – in enough detail to appreciate it in current world including Gemorah.

    #2015805
    refoelzeev
    Participant

    Professor Marc Shapiro on seforimblog brings from Rabbi Mondshine that the Torah Temimah never saw Mayan Ganim. Here’s a quote (I’d post a link but links are forbidden):

    “Yet”The truth is that Epstein never even saw the book and thus did not know the true nature of Ma’ayan Ganim. He learnt of the relevant passage, which he places in Rayna Batya’s mouth, from an article that appeared in Ha-Tzefirah in 1894. We see this from the fact that the Ha-Tzefirah quotation mistakenly omits some words, and the same words are omitted in Mekor Barukh. This shows that his knowledge of this book came in 1894 and that he never discussed it with Rayna Batya, who died many years prior to this.”

    #2015807

    One item that needs to be clarified: secular studies are not as they used to be!

    First, current “universities” are really trade schools at best or waste of time at worst. I measured with kids complexity of American writing using current school grades – modern politicians come somewhere between 8th and 10th grade. So did Andrew Jackson, I think. Madison was at … grade 38. This is about 2 PhDs or maybe “Dr Rabbi”. So, most people now are not going to university to reject Yiddishkeit for some other type of morality. It ain’t there unless it is Yale Divinity School or something.

    2nd, we always admitted “yesh chochma b’goyim” and science developed tremendously in last centuries. Talmidei Chachamim were always interested in science and technology and I can’t imagine Rambam not learning quantum physics in our times. And all amoraim discussing natural remedies would be fascinated by mRNA vaccines. One used to have help from heaven to time his tefilah so that you start shmone esre at sunrise (there was no cheap way to measure time at night). Recently, I saw two Talmidei Chachamim arguing about a timing difference between two apps on their respective phones.

    These two point do not mitigate everything, of course, such as
    1) social problems when kids are sent away from home into coed places
    2) all science does not substitute for Torah knowledge and attitudes

    #2015767
    AviraDeArah
    Participant

    Also absent from this discussion is the yerushalmi which says that the reason is because of a combination of 2 factors; noshim daatan kalos(in regards to being tempted more easily than men) and the fact that Torah makes one “arum”,” crafty”, that she can cover up her sins if she is nichshal.

    #2015806

    A general outlook on this problem. I think we need to first be humble and realize that “modernity” presented a huge new era that Jews were not challenged with before. There was a lot of upheaval after 2nd Hurban and this is probably comparable. We had several moments with very narrow paths through which Jews developed, such as Yavno; remaining students of R Akiva….

    We are “just” a couple of centuries in. We lost a lot – assimilation, Reform, communism, Shoah. It is not just a fault of Reform that they became Reform, but a joint failure of Jewish communities that we did not offer the right response. We eventually developed several models that survived. Maybe if early Reform will see current structures, they would end up at YU or at 770 or at Beis Mussar or at a Tisch, depending what exactly they were searching for.

    so, at minimum, we need to appreciate that all current shitahs are part of this survival process and we need to hang in together. We are now wiser than 200 years ago and a lot of “hot” topics are resolved. Not many observant people now are converting to traditional religions, or going into Biblical criticism, or leaving because they need to work on Shabbos.

    #2015822
    AviraDeArah
    Participant

    Aaq, a school that teaches gemara to girls as a part of the class that she must attend is definitely coercion… coercion doesn’t mean tying people down, it means making them do it as part of their education.

    MO does that and there’s simply no defense for it.

    #2015845

    Avira > Aaq, a school that teaches gemara to girls as a part of the class that she must attend is definitely coercion

    I agree that this is different from a unique lady who is interested in learning, but I am saying that, as far as I know, most people do not advocate for a universal obligation. Most MO will not call you to teach your daughters Gemorah. Furthermore, as far as a family is free to choose a school with or without Gemorah, and, presumably, the kid has some input in the process, it is not fully “obligatory”

    On the other side, my daughters jump away when something might be a “mishna” or a “Gemora”. Maybe they were told that it is bad for a shiduch, not sure. At the same time, they are familiar with most of the material that I overhear from my Daf Yomi, except the pilpul and inappropriate topics. They just were not told at school that these are Gemoras.

    #2015868
    simcha613
    Participant

    It’s not so clear from the S”A that women aren’t allowed to learn Torah Shebal Peh. Even though the S”A says that one who teaches his daughter Torah it’s as if he taught her “tiflus” (tiflus being something negative), the S”A also say that women receive sechar for learning it! Now if the S”A was saying that it is assur, the S”A wouldn’t have said they get a reward for doing it. The S”A just says it can’t be taught to them which I understand to mean that it is not allowed to be imposed on them, however if they learn it by choice, then they receive reward.

    One also has to factor in (based on the S”A and the Rama) that a woman does not have a chiyuv to learn Torah which has no practical application, and has a chiyuv to learn Torah that has practical application (halachah, mussar, Tanach [Gemara in Megilah says that the only nevu’os that were recorded were those who’s messages are meant for all generations, therefore Nach is practical], etc…). It’s a positive thing to learn the areas which have no practical application (the S”A says they receive reward), it’s better than wasting time, but it’s not a chiyuv.

    Based on this, I think there are 4 criteria that need to be met for women to learn Gemara:

    1) They have to want to do it.

    2) It has to be for lishmah reasons, not feminist reasons.

    3) They need a teacher to guide them in the right way to learn Gemara.

    4) It can’t come at the expense of learning those areas of Torah that are a chiyuv for them to learn, but it can only come at the expense of things that are reshus (learning secular subjects, going shopping, etc…).

    #2015869
    simcha613
    Participant

    I researched this topic back in my youth, and I wanted to share my thoughts.

    It’s not so clear from the Rambam and S”A that women aren’t allowed to learn Torah Shebal Peh. Even though the S”A says that one who teaches his daughter Torah it’s as if he taught her “tiflus” (tiflus being something negative), the S”A also say that women receive sechar for learning it! Now if the S”A was saying that it is assur, the S”A wouldn’t have said they get a reward for doing it. The S”A just says it can’t be taught to them which I understand to mean that it is not allowed to be imposed on them, however if they learn it by choice, then they receive reward.

    One also has to factor in (based on the S”A and the Rama) that a woman does not have a chiyuv to learn Torah which has no practical application, and has a chiyuv to learn Torah that has practical application (halachah, mussar, Tanach [Gemara in Megilah says that the only nevu’os that were recorded were those who’s messages are meant for all generations, therefore Nach is practical], etc…). It’s a positive thing to learn the areas which have no practical application (the S”A says they receive reward), it’s better than wasting time, but it’s not a chiyuv.

    Based on this, I think there are 4 criteria that need to be met for women to learn Gemara:

    1) They have to want to do it.

    2) It has to be for lishmah reasons, not feminist reasons.

    3) They need a teacher to guide them in the right way to learn Gemara.

    4) It can’t come at the expense of learning those areas of Torah that are a chiyuv for them to learn, but it can only come at the expense of things that are reshus (learning secular subjects, going shopping, etc…).

    #2015945
    Mindful
    Participant

    What is the actual problem with a women learning Gemorah? We definitely from the genorah that women did learn gemorah. Yes, only few names are mentioned but obviously not every man that learned genorah is mentioned either. What would be the purpose of preventing someone from learning? Why do we care what the Satmar Rebbe said? He also said women have to shave their heads? How is that halachikally allowed? This is just one example of anti Jewish rhetoric of Satmar that is against holocho and Jeeish values and tradition.
    Why is there is push to keep women simple minded and ignorant? What is the purpose of this, and where in chazal do we see this? Most women in these “ultra orthodox” communities can’t talk about anything more complex than what they have in their freezer. The more “farfrumt” the community, the more ignorant the women are. And I mean ignorant in Jewish study and thought. It is very disturbing. The women in Tanach were all wise, educated, strong minded, independent thinkers. Isn’t that what we are supposed to nurture in our daughters?

    #2016033
    AviraDeArah
    Participant

    Mindful – it’s exactly that reaction that chaim jachter wanted to elicit when he quoted the satmar rov as if he were the only one who qualified the heter of the chofetz chaim as applying only to tanach.

    Your reaction is proof of his deceitful tactic working…. it’s far from “just satmar”… it’s chazal, rishonim wnd achronim across the board. Rav Moshe writes that it’s unnecessary to even address the issue, since it’s a simple gemara.

    Also, did you know that the beis halevi – not a satmar chossid – says that women don’t wear yarmulkahs because their hair will be cut off anyway upon marriage, so it’s already considered cut and is therefore like a yarmulkah?

    Your rant is an excellent caricature of the yatzer hora of modernity… purely emotional, copying feminist attitudes and making baseless claims of superiority over the more observant classes of Jews.

    #2016093
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    Mindful – I think a lot of your questions have answers but you would first need to sort thru the difference between real questions, fabricated questions based on things you think are true, and just plain old disgusting hateful anti-frum comments. If you ae able to do that, I would be more than happy to respond.

    Avirah – you don’t seem to understand that your rant is no less yetzer hora. You seem to think that if someone doesn’t understand and is angry about lies and misinformation fed them over years, that you can just spit and kick back at them and somehow that aggressive response will just spill over into love and understanding of Hashem’s Torah. Your style is partially responsible for the misinformed view people like her have of Torah and it’s leaders. Just stop. Nobody gave you permission to act like this. Don’t pretend you can be Rav Miller ztl. He knew his audience, he knew his venues, and he had a lot more to him than just his toughness. You can’t take a page out of Joseph’s book and just throw things on people’s heads in the name of holiness. It is not just wrong, it is destructive.

    #2016106
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    “”You can’t take a page out of Joseph’s book and just throw things on people’s heads in the name of holiness”

    Azoy…so the Gadol Ha’trolls, aka “Joseph”, has been resurrected as Avirah. Who would’ve guessed….

    #2016146
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    We find that a father should not teach his daughter gemora but we don’t find her learning on her own.

    #2016181

    I wonder whether R Feinstein and R Tendler ever discussed this issue at a shabbos table, or maybe Rebetin Tendler had to reconcile what her father says v. her husband. Is there any information about this?

    #2016167
    AviraDeArah
    Participant

    Syag; there’s a difference between how i deal with people offline, versus how i respond to ideas expressed by anonymous users, in responses that are likewise anonymous and not aimed at any person individually. I have no idea who “mindful” is, I’m only pointing out that this reaction proved my point about chaim jachter’s horrific duplicity. And he is someone I’ll talk about because he’s a public figure who has spread disinformation on important Torah principles.

    Other posters, such as AAQ, I’ve developed something of a rapport with. I disagree with him a lot, but he seems to be talking m the aforementioned wavelength; it’s not personal or emotional.

    You’re right that there’s a time and place. I realize this may horrify some, but I’m involved in chinuch and have seen a fair deal of hatzlocha specifically with the subset of jewish communities that i rail about on here. Interpersonally, one must be non judgemental and “pick their battles” etc erc. I’m on here not to communicate with people, but to address what they say. I don’t think that’s destructive. I also don’t think I have a holy mission, a chiyuv machaah or something. If I can express torah thoughts that often are not spoken or known about, then I feel a sense of fulfillment in doing so.

    #2016205
    philosopher
    Participant

    AAQ, to think we are wiser than the gedoilim of 200 years ago is absolutely a folly. We are less wise, that’s for sure. Years ago almost no Jews converted except for a few individuals unless it was forced conversions, even then, masses of Jews died Al Kiddush Hashem. Today we unfortunately have individual Jews, mostly non-educated, who convert to Christianity. There Jewish women marrying Muslims and converting to Islam. And unfortunately we have boys and girls, too many too count, that go OTD. And we have adults who go OTD as well.

    We are a shvache dor, we are certainly not better than our ancestors.

    #2016209

    Avira > it’s not personal or emotional.

    At the risk of being flamed from all sides for stereotyping, this may be a challenge for women in learning Gemorah. As most women prefer to solve issues amicably, they may be offended by the way a lot of learning is expressed. Maybe they can do it better.

    #2016212

    Avira > I realize this may horrify some, but I’m involved in chinuch. ..Interpersonally, one must be non judgemental

    I am curious, could you clarify: if R Moshe Soloveichik have hired you to be a melamed of his son, would you try to discourage (directly or indirectly) him from going to the Free Polish University and to University of Berlin?

    to bring you to those times, here are several professors that a young Yoshe Ber would encounter there:

    Max Dessoir was born in Berlin, into a German Jewish family..An associate of Pierre Janet and Sigmund Freud, Dessoir published in 1890 a book on The Double Ego, describing the mind as divided into two layers, each with its own associative links[4] – its own chain of memory.[5] He considered that the ‘underconsciousness’ (Unterbewusstein) emerged in such phenomena as dreams, hypnosis, and dual personality..In 1889, in an article in the German periodical Sphinx, Dessoir coined the term ‘parapsychology’ (actually in its German equivalent, ‘Parapsychologie’): “If one … characterizes by para- something going beyond or besides the ordinary, than one could perhaps call the phenomena that step outside the usual process of the inner life parapsychical, and the science dealing with them parapsychology. ..Dessoir was an amateur magician who had used the pseudonym “Edmund W. Rells”. He was interested in the history and psychology of magic.

    Eugen Mittwoch (December 4, 1876 – November 8, 1942) was the founder of Modern Islamic Studies in Germany, and at the same time an eminent Jewish scholar…Coming from an old Orthodox Jewish family, ..He initially wanted to become a Rabbi. During his studies in Berlin he discovered Islamic studies and did his doctorate ..In the early 1920s Mittwoch was involved in the planning of the Hebrew University and its School of Oriental Studies.[1] He was invited to Jerusalem to receive a professorship of Arabic for one year, but apparently refused the invitation. ..Since he was a leading specialist on Ethiopian languages world-wide, Mittwoch did not lose his academic position in 1933 immediately like almost all his Jewish colleagues in Germany did at that time. This had to do with a special intervention by Mussolini with Hitler on behalf of Mittwoch..Mittwoch used his “privileged” position in Germany (he continued to receive his salary as a German professor until the beginning of the war) on behalf of the Jewish community, he became head of the American Jewish Joint Distribution Committee in Berlin. [of course you would know only things up to 1930]

    #2016241
    philosopher
    Participant

    I’m so inspired by women learning gemorah. When females learn gemorah, most of the time it’s mamesh, mamesh learning only l’Shem Shomayim, it’s mamesh learning only lishmu, and it’s got absolutely nothing to do with modern ideology of women doing the same things as men.

    I’m going to start learning gemorah because I want to shteig in my levels of feminist aspirations, oops sorry, I meant that I want to shteig in my ruchnius, and learning gemorah is the ideal and proper way for women to appropriately shteig in all levels of ruchnius that a Jewish woman should aspire to in tznius, yira Shomayim, chesed, etc.

    #2016305
    AviraDeArah
    Participant

    Aaq, just to be fair, rabbi yoshe ber would have been beyond my pedagogical abilities by age 8 – he was a veritable genius, all other considerations aside. I do appreciate the thought experiment though; very original!

    I could relate more to being given the opportunity to be a melamen for my grandfather. He grew up in the 1910s, and learned in 2 yeshivos of note. He eventually went to the University of Berlin and came out….well, “nisht arein gein”. If I were learning gemara with him I would relate halacha to mussar, hashkofa, politics etc the way some of my rebbeim did; show him the breitkeit, the breadth of Torah and how applicable it is to every situation. Perhaps if he were satisfied in his knowledge that “hafuch boh vehafuch boh dekula boh”, and wanted only to use secular studies to understand Torah, not as a “complement” or as something independently important, it would dissuade him from following the mad dash off the cliff.

    When I learn with my kids, I try to show them what learning can do for them, how enveloping and encompassing it is..we have a game where they try to find something in the world that has no connection to Torah, and each time I show them how everything is in the Torah. Once I took some of my boys on a laser tag trip – they said… that’s it, there’s no way you can find a Torah lesson in laser tag. I told them that laser tag teaches us that you can do something which seems to have no effect whatsoever…you don’t feel or see the laser coming out of the gun, but it definitely has a result!

    #2016446

    Avira, my question was partially unfair – there is also an issue of generations. As you mention, there were so many people going off the derech at that time, I would be the first to dissuade people from college at that time. You are probably right that those yehidim who went and survived had excellent preparation. I also agree on your approach with kids, I am doing exactly the same. The question becomes when they get a little longer.

    If your kids plan to go to chinuch, then there are no issues. Otherwise, the question is whether they need to learn things required in the world – and many of these things they missed while earlier attending Jewish schools. I am encouraging them and plugging the gaps, explaining that they are getting same as in MO schools, just not at the same time – were focused on Jewish education first and now doing remediate work on English writing while doing AP History at the same time.

    It looks like we got off women-gemorah topic a little. To come back, women who get reasonably general education, say a Law School, can relate to the issue of proving things, comparing different views, so if we do not give them background on what they are doing, they might not appreciate Torah at the level they are capable of.

    #2016470
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    My wife a’h wanted to go to Law School but her water did not let.

    #2016478
    ujm
    Participant

    RE: what water?

    #2016672
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    I don’t know how water got there when I meant father. I must have been asleep.

    #2017148
    mesivta bachur
    Participant

    see Trampled Laws by R’ Mordechai Willig SHLITA

    #2018497
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    See Magen Avraham (263,12) as mentioned above.

    #2018569
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    mesivta bachur, the above Magen Avraham above anticipated the essay on trampled laws.

    #2018609

    Women overall have less inclination to deal with abstract issues, like math, maybe because they have more issues to attend in real life. So, maybe women should not plan their learning around dafim of Gemorah, but focus on a wide variety of mitzvos that they feel are relevant to them, depending on a person this could be kashrus and niddah, or also chesed, education of their and other children, business, speech, etc. If they want to understand those issues in depth, they can surely learn whatever helps them learn it, and this might be Gemora, poskim.

    #2019041
    Avi K
    Participant

    DY, who proved it? Please cite sources.

    RE, tell that to Judge Freier. Anyway, she did not have to listen as it pertains to her life and livelihood.

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