Women wearing tallis

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  • #616918
    Excellence
    Participant

    I have noticed that almost every online judaica store in the world has women’s tallis

    I thought this was forbidden. But to my surprise I saw an article where R. Feinstein permitted it under specific conditions. Can anyone translate that section of the Igros Moshe for me

    Not only that, but the judaica stores also sell women’s kippas.

    What do people think of this? I personally don’t want to buy from a store that sells sifrei kodesh beside women’s tallis. But with what I think is about 90% of judaica stores doing this how am I supposed to buy seforim?

    #1118646
    Joseph
    Participant

    I’ve been to very many seforim stores and judaica stores, and I’ve yet to encounter even one that sells a woman’s tallis or yarmulka.

    There must be something fishy in the waters where your are in the land down under…

    #1118647
    Excellence
    Participant

    There are a heap of online stores that do. Perhaps you could provide me a few names of stores who don’t? There are items I need that I don’t want to buy from the mixed stores.

    #1118648
    Joseph
    Participant

    Eichlers.

    #1118649
    feivel
    Participant

    We had a store in my area that sold “apikorsus” books like ” the five books of Miriam” R’L.

    I asked a shaila and was told it was permitted for me to enter there and buy products there if I couldn’t get them from elsewhere easily, or if it was more expensive elsewhere.

    #1118650
    Sam2
    Participant

    R’ Moshe has a Tshuvah that sort of implies a special-made women’s Tallis/Tallis Kotton might be okay. R’ Schachter’s points about feminism still probably stand, though.

    #1118651
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=920&st=&pgnum=83&hilite=

    Pretty strongly against feminism, wouldn’t you say?

    #1118652
    writersoul
    Participant

    Online stores generally sell for a more varied crowd because they’re so accessible.

    #1118653
    Sam2
    Participant

    DY: Of course. Not as strong as R’ Schachter’s though. Though R’ Schachter will probably claim that R’ Moshe would agree with him in the current climate.

    #1118654
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    He calls them ?????? ?????. What does Rav Schachter call them?

    #1118655
    lesschumras
    Participant

    Excellence, do you buy kosher food in a market that sells treif?

    Why can’t a Judaica store carry items for non-orthodox Jews? A Jewish store owner can sell food without hashgachas or with supervision below your standards

    #1118656
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Excellence, here is a translation (from R’ M. Broyde) I found of part of that teshuvah:

    [hearing the] shofar and [waving the] lulav and recite blessings [on these performances]

    However, it is obvious that this applies only if her soul yearns to perform mitzvot, notwithstanding the fact that she is not commanded to perform them. However, since it is not with this intent but rather stems from her protest against God and His Torah this is not the act of a mitzvah at all; quite the opposite, [it is] a forbidden act, for she commits heresy, thinking it possible for the laws of the Torah to be changed even in a grave matter.

    #1118657
    Excellence
    Participant

    Pharaoh’s school uniform! Lost the post I was going to make. Too tired to retype it… I’m using that as kapara for the next world…

    Dass, thanks for that. Basically: technically it’s marginally permissible, but essentially, it’s an act of defiance to pass over a boundary needlessly.

    Less, you have a point, but so does a pencil tip. They did not stand at Har Sinai. We did.

    I’m talking about stores selling sifrei kodesh beside abominable womens’ tallisim. Also, as a mashgiach, I work behind the counter and my standards vary for different products. You may be interested to know, just because a product has a hechsher or is under an internationally recognised kashrut office… does not mean it is so fully kosher. There are … gaps.

    #1118658
    Excellence
    Participant

    The question I have to ask myself, can I buy a book that’s only available there and not elsewhere? According to my rabbi, yes. But privately, I will be supporting a store assisting in misbehaviour…

    #1118659
    Sam2
    Participant

    DY: I thought R’ Moshe was saying it is situational, not like R’ Schachter who holds that even ideas that come from feminists are Kefirah.

    #1118660
    Matan1
    Participant

    According to R’ Moshe, could a woman with pure motives wear a tallis? Could she wears it in private?

    #1118661
    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    “Excellence, do you buy kosher food in a market that sells treif?”

    Actually, I live near an area where there’s a store that claims to be a 100% kosher-only supermarket, but they sell foods that are only kosher by the heterodoxy’s reckoning like gelatin, non-hechshered cheese (i.e. totally treif food). Then there’s a regular supermarket that just happens to have a kosher section. Most of the more religious folks in the area actually prefer the regular supermarket over the falsely labelled kosher market. Point is, the example you gave is more comparable to getting seforim at like a Barnes and Noble or a university library. The OP’s example is analogous to the misleading “kosher” market, which many would consider to be worse.

    #1118662
    yehudayona
    Participant

    Excellence, to whom are you referring when you say “They did not stand at Har Sinai. We did.”? Non-orthodox Jews? If so, when a non-orthodox Jew becomes a BT, does he or she retroactively stand at Har Sinai?

    On the original topic, when I lived OOT, there was just one seforim store. The owners were frum. They sold women’s taleisim — I remember seeing one that had the 4 imahos on the 4 corners. I think they also sold conservative and reform prayer books. I don’t know from whom they got a heter.

    #1118663
    Sam2
    Participant

    Matan1: Probably. I won’t say yes, but saying no is probably false.

    #1118664
    Excellence
    Participant

    Clarifying: When asked the difference to buying kosher food from a nonkosher supermarket owned by non Jewish people, compared to buying kosher items from a seforim store also selling nonkosher items.

    Well the non Jewish supermarket did not stand at Har Sinai. Only we did.

    I don’t mind buying an out of print sefer from Amazon if I can’t buy elsewhere. But it will bother me to support a Jewish store selling silky womens tallis.

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