January 26, 2020 7:57 am at 7:57 am #1825823bsharg2Participant
World Zionist Congress elections: important to vote. Elections occur once every 5 years. Decisions are made regarding how to spend $5 billion that goes to Jewish organizations and programs in Israel and around the world, and who should serve as board members for other organizations, like the Jewish Agency for Israel, the Jewish National Fund and the World Zionist Organization.
Eretz Hakodesh: Protecting the Kedusha and Mesorah of Eretz Yisrael
Orthodox Israel Coalition – Mizrachi: Vote Torah
Vision: Empowering the Next Generation
Vote Reform: ARZA Representing the Reform Movement and Reconstructing Judaism
Israel Shelanu (Our Israel)
MERCAZ USA: The Voice of Conservative/Masorti Judaism
Dorshei Torah V’Tziyon: Torah and Israel for All
Hatikvah: Progressive Israel Slate
Ohavei Zion: World Sephardic Zionist Organization
Herut Zionists: The Jabotinsky Movement
ZOA Coalition: Zionist Organization of America (ZOA), Torah from Sinai, Make Israel Great (MIG) & National Pro-Israel Partners – Courageously Defending Israel, Sovereignty & the Jewish People
American Forum for Israel
Americans4Israel: Unity, Peace & Security
Kol Yisrael: For the love of Israel – Making Zionism Compelling in the 21st Century
Shas OlamiJanuary 27, 2020 12:18 pm at 12:18 pm #1826377
Looks like it is very important to vote. I saw that Rav Asher Weiss, Rav Yitzchak Berkowitz and Rav Elya Brundy have all encourage people to vote. My questions are
1. Which party closest represent the Chareidi community ? Is it Eretz Hakodesh?
2. Is there any organization out there that is offering to fund the $7 sign-up fee? I know its relatively small but hey, every little bit helps.January 27, 2020 4:25 pm at 4:25 pm #1826537
Rav Brudny has NOT encouraged people to vote. I doubt the others have either.January 27, 2020 6:18 pm at 6:18 pm #1826571DovidBTParticipant
What does the World Zionist Congress do? Does it have legal authority to control anything?January 27, 2020 7:11 pm at 7:11 pm #1826579☕️coffee addictParticipant
I voted for OICJanuary 27, 2020 10:17 pm at 10:17 pm #1826577PhilParticipant
“Rav Brudny has NOT encouraged people to vote. I doubt the others have either”
Really? So what are we to make of Harav Asher Weiss’ very encouraging remarks on the eretzhakodesh.org website, as well as Harav Elya Brudny’s (“What We Say”), regarding individuals voting?
Is it all a very elaborate hoax? Is Elvis also living in your mother’s basement with you?January 28, 2020 12:11 pm at 12:11 pm #1826707
Rav Brudny says in that 4 minute clip you referenced at What We Say that “Agudas Yisroel was founded to lchatchila fight the Zionists”. And as such Agudah does not in any official capacity encourage participation in the World Zionist Congress elections.January 28, 2020 3:15 pm at 3:15 pm #1826802PhilParticipant
It’s really sweet of you to interpret it for everyone but as usual, you omit and distort whatever doesn’t agree with your twisted worldview. Starting at 2:30 in the video, Harav Brudny encourages individuals to participate in the elections.
You are seriously allergic to the truth.January 29, 2020 3:35 pm at 3:35 pm #1827234
Can one vote if he lives outside the US? I’d like to vote but I don’t think I can as I don’t live in the US or EY.February 3, 2020 10:13 pm at 10:13 pm #1828642LanderTalmidParticipant
You can vote if you are a citizen or resident of US wherever you live. (Eretz HaKodesh has a special flyer for Americans living in Eretz Yisroel)
Anyone have ideas how we can spread awareness to other frum people? (Eretz HaKodesh: Chareidi, Shas: Chacham Ovadyab, Orthodox Coalition: Mizrachi,YU,OU,Touro)
The last election had only 56,000 votes so each vote really counts!February 9, 2020 2:37 pm at 2:37 pm #1830222bsharg2Participant
@ChesterfieldIsGeshmake: yes you can vote, as long as you are a US citizen, no matter where you are living.
@LanderTalmid: Yes each vote does really count! The last election 5 years ago, the frum community was over-represented so we had good voter participation. Lets make it happen again!
I voted Eretz HaKodesh but as stated above, there are several frum parties running in electionFebruary 16, 2020 12:16 pm at 12:16 pm #1832150
I left a message on Halachah Headlines asking R’ Dovid to interview some of the people running to publicize it. If other people call in, he’ll take it more seriously.February 22, 2020 10:21 pm at 10:21 pm #1834415
Yay! He did it!February 29, 2020 10:53 pm at 10:53 pm #1836413
Answer from Hagaon HaRav Aharon Feldman shlit”a, Rosh Yeshiva Ner Yisroel, Baltimore:
Dear Rav Feldman,
Does the Rosh Yeshiva have any opinion regarding whether one should vote in the WZO election? In order to vote one has to affirm their belief in the “Jerusalem Program” which is the official platform of the World Zionist Organization.
Miami Beach, FL
In reply to your question regarding voting in the upcoming World Zionist election:
My opinion is that a Jew is forbidden to declare that he is a member, or ascribes to a program, of an organization whose platform fails to recognize that the Jewish nation is a nation which received the Torah at Mount Sinai. Such a declaration is a Chillul Hashem and may not be made no matter what material or spiritual benefits will thereby accrue.
With deep respect,
Aharon FeldmanMarch 1, 2020 1:29 am at 1:29 am #1836427klugeryidParticipant
I went back to look
It’s an innocuous looking check box above the signature line.March 1, 2020 1:30 am at 1:30 am #1836426klugeryidParticipant
Never saw anything asking me to affirm their belief in the “Jerusalem Program” which is the official platform of the World Zionist Organization.
Where did I miss it?March 1, 2020 2:25 pm at 2:25 pm #1836626
Maran Rav Chaim Kanievski shlita gave voting in it a thumbs up. Maran Rav Ovadiah Yosef Zt”l too. Sounds like it has the support of the major gedolim. Why should it be any different than voting for degel or shas? Can anyone explain what the downside is especially when so much is at stake? It seems like if the Orthodox would get their act together they could sweep this thing.March 1, 2020 3:48 pm at 3:48 pm #1836651
Haav Aharon Feldman shlita wrote a letter that HaRav Elya Brudny shlita has withdrawn his statement that was interpreted as supporting voting in the WZO election.March 1, 2020 5:05 pm at 5:05 pm #18366671Participant
Are we allowed to take money from Treif funds?March 1, 2020 6:38 pm at 6:38 pm #1836689
The requirements to be eligible to vote in the WZC elections are the following: “Voting is open to any adult Jew who … signs a statement affirming that they are someone who “views a Zionist State of Israel to be the expression of the common responsibility of the Jewish people for its continuity and future.”March 2, 2020 10:29 am at 10:29 am #1836821
Joseph: you’re twisting the words of R’ Feldman.
He said that R’ Brudny withdrew his statement of the MOETZES supporting voting. R’ Brudny still personally supports voting, but he’s not issuing any statements on behalf of the Moetzes.
R’ Brudny and R’ Kaminetsky actually reaffirmed their support, and they are now supported by R’ Chaim Kanievsky.
Joseph, will you now attack R’ Chaim for encouraging people to vote?March 2, 2020 2:51 pm at 2:51 pm #1836971
Joseph, there are now reports that R’ Feldman has withdrawn his opposition to voting, due to the psak from R’ Chaim Kanievsky.March 2, 2020 4:23 pm at 4:23 pm #1837017
DM: Which unconfirmed “reports”? I heard unconfirmed reports that Rav Chaim withdraw saying to vote after learning one must accept the Zionist platform in order to qualify to vote.March 2, 2020 4:40 pm at 4:40 pm #1837023
Joseph, were you talking to yourself again? Is that where you heard that from?
Rabbi Yitzchok Hisiger, one of the editors of the Yated, spoke with R’ Feldman. R’ Feldman told him that he was being mevatel to R’ Chaim and withdrawing his opposition.March 2, 2020 11:44 pm at 11:44 pm #1837144
I just don’t get why YWN isn’t talking about this drama and the issues involved. I haven’t seen a single (non-sponsored) article on the WZO electionsMarch 2, 2020 11:46 pm at 11:46 pm #1837183dreambigParticipant
The WZC constitution requires of all members, I quote: “prevent the membership of bodies or individuals who adhere to or advocate discrimination based on origin, nationality, race, gender or [redacted; I don’t know the forum rules] orientation”. Yet every Orthodox Jew does, because he adheres to the Torah, which has very clear things to say about Mishkav Zochur, Kohanim, Levi’im, Mamzeirim, Jews by birth, and so on, discriminating based on orientation and origin, at the very least. So we, by their own laws, cannot vote.March 3, 2020 2:32 pm at 2:32 pm #1837333
I also do not understand why YWN is not covering this. We do not need all of the lashon horah and back and forth dirt but if R’ Shmuel Kamenetzsky shlita got a green light from R. Chaim Kanievsky isn’t that newsworthy?
Certainly a lot more important than telling us some temani draft dodging kid got let out jail!March 3, 2020 7:09 pm at 7:09 pm #1837423
Joseph, the letter from R’ Chaim has now been confirmed. He wrote “Kedai meod lehatzbia.” Will you now be mevatel yourself to the wisdom of R’ Chaim and vote for a frum party in the election?March 3, 2020 8:39 pm at 8:39 pm #1837442
DaMoshe: If I get a Psak from Rav Chaim that Modern Orthodoxy is sinful and one mustn’t associate with such groups, do you promise to disaffiliate with any community or group that identifies with them?March 3, 2020 9:52 pm at 9:52 pm #1837462☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
Joseph, the letter from R’ Chaim has now been confirmed. He wrote “Kedai meod lehatzbia.”
Where can we see this letter?March 4, 2020 7:57 am at 7:57 am #1837541
Joseph: If you had a psak from R’ Hershel Schachter saying so, then I’d listen, as my Rav is a student of his.
I asked since you seemed to be following R’ Aharon Feldman (at least your earlier posts were quoting him). Since he changed his stance, you had the rug pulled out from under you. Will you still follow him?March 4, 2020 1:00 pm at 1:00 pm #1837542NKChossid612Participant
Any yid with one ounce of yiras shomayim should know that klal yisroel’s legitimate poskim forbid taking part in this bizayon to the olam hatorah.March 4, 2020 1:04 pm at 1:04 pm #1837615
DaMoshe: You take everything that religious-hating website claims at face value since they use a religious sounding brand name?March 5, 2020 10:24 am at 10:24 am #1837914
Joseph: It’s been reported on multiple sites, so I’m not sure which one you’re referring to.March 5, 2020 11:13 am at 11:13 am #1837952
DaMoshe: Name one reputable site. Take your time thinking before posting.
None of them are trustworthy.March 6, 2020 9:12 am at 9:12 am #1838197yisroellazearParticipant
I read what R. Feldman wrote and discussed it with R Kornfeld, his son in law. While there may be other opinions by other G’dolia Torah, R. Aaron Feldman has been my Rebbe for 45 years, and I follow his opinion. “Osey l’chah Rav..”March 7, 2020 7:56 pm at 7:56 pm #1838322rationalParticipant
Of course one should vote.
Every Jew should “view the Zionist State of Israel to be the expression of the common responsibility of the Jewish people for its continuity and future.”March 7, 2020 11:34 pm at 11:34 pm #1838430
AN OPEN LETTER REGARDING THE WZO ELECTIONS
By HaRav Aharon Feldman
In response to the question of many, I have not retracted my opinion that it is forbidden to vote in the WZO elections. The source of this rumor is Yitzchok Hisiger who quoted me as saying that I was “mevatel my daas” to R. Chaim Kanefsky shlita who had written that one should vote. This was transmitted to the online press who interpreted it as a retraction. But as Hisiger himself writes, “This is not true. He did not retract his opinion in my conversation with him.” I meant by saying I am mevatel my daas that out of deference to this zekan hagedolim that I would not publicly oppose him. However, this was before I became aware of the full details of R. Chaim’s response.
The response was to the query of Rav Shmuel Kamenetzky shlita who asked: Is it is permitted to vote in the WZO elections “in order to save kodshey yisroel.” (No one has seen the letter; this was read to me.) Protecting kodshey yisroel means stopping the assaults on Chareidi Judaism by the Israeli government in matters of the Kosel, geyrus, marriage, recognition of Reform etc. But this is an incorrect presentation of the issue; they will not save kodshey yisroel, as explained below. I therefore feel that until a correct presentation of the issue is made before R. Chaim, his response is irrelevant to the issue before us.
I am mevatel my daas to R. Chaim, but he is discussing saving kodshey yisroel and I am discussing the facts. There is no conflict.
The World Zionist Congress, the decision and policy making body of the World Zionist Organization, has 750 delegates, of which 152 are elected from the U.S. There are eleven slates in the US section, so it is not probable that Eretz Hakodesh will receive more than 50, most probably 25, of the 152 delegates. Can 50 delegates against 700, with the control of the Organization out of their hands, save kodshey yisroel? This is nothing less than a fantasy.
I do not fault Rav Shmuel Kamenetzky for framing the question the way he did, since he relied on the facts as presented to him. Led by Rabbi Pesach Lerner, these advocates have been manipulating the Chareidi public, including many important Rabbonim, with a clever campaign designed to convince them to follow their fantasy.
For one hundred years Gedolim such as the Chofetz Chaim, R. Chaim Brisker, R. Elchonon Wasserman, R. Reuven Grozofsky, the Brisker Ran and (y.l.) Rav Moshe Shternbuch, have taken the non-compromising stance that we must not join with the Zionists in any of their organizations. Without exception, this was considered by them a serious issur of hischabrus lireshaim, and fraught with danger for the Jewish people. Joining with them meant agreement to the basis of Zionism which is a redefinition of the Jewish people as a nation dependent not upon Torah but on land and language.
Eretz Hakodesh, the name of the slate being voted for, has misled the public by studiously avoiding mentioning that joining Zionist organizations was considered a very serious issur by all gedolim, one which the Chofetz Chaim said it is worth closing a third of Yeshivos to avoid (Letters of R.Elchonon Wasserman p 154ff.).
Its website says that “participation in the elections is not an endorsement of the anything the WZO was or is.” This deliberately omits that to vote one must accept the Jerusalem Program. This Program states that Zionism is “the national liberation movement of the Jewish people … (it)views a Jewish Zionist democratic State of Israel to be the expression of the common responsibility of the Jewish people for its continuity and future.” In other words, the survival of the Jewish people is unrelated to Hashem and His Torah, but only to a secular State dedicated to turning the Jewish people Into a nation like all other secular states.
In another distortion, Rabbi Pesach Lerner in Hamodia describes the Jerusalem Program as merely “speaking of Jewish unity and its bond to Eretz Yisrael, the value of Aliyah and promoting Jewish values,” deliberately omitting that it is a statement, as cited above, which is antithetical to the basis of Torah Judaism.
In his campaign, Lerner has consistently attempted to trivialize the opposition of the Gedolim to joining a Zionist organization. In an op-ed piece in Mishpacha, Lerner writes that “the Torah community has traditionally not been involved or active in the WZO election…and gedoley yisrael have generally stayed away from any involvement.” The grievous sin of participating in a Zionist organization is presented as a matter of personal taste in which the Torah community has “traditionally not been involved” and which “gedoley yisroel have stayed away from.”
Lerner, again, writes in Hamodia that participation in the WZO is no different from participation in the Knesset. With this he displays superficial thinking and ignorance of articles by Rav Reuven Grozofsky (in his Boayos Hammon) and Rav Elyashiv (in his denouncement of Shas for joining the WZO in Yated Neeman, Parashas Bo, 1970) who explain at length that there is no comparison between the two. In the Knesset elections, the citizens are not opting to join the Zionist endeavor. They are willy-nilly citizens who are merely protecting themselves and their tax money and ensuring their survival from onslaughts by the government, whereas joining the WZO is a willful act of identification with Zionism.
Menachem Grylak, publisher of Mishpacha, contributes to this trivialization. In an op-ed piece he writes:
“For a great many readers, the word Zionist is a turnoff… They may fell disinclined to take part [in the voting) simply on grounds that this isn’t something for the heimeishe crowd. Some of you may this sudden call to take part in a WZO election is coming right out of left field, especially those of you educated in the direction of a non-Zionist agenda.”
Here, again, is the deliberate obfuscation of the fact that Zionism has always been considered a serious aveyra, but that it is something which the “heimishe crowd” objects to out of meaningless habit or upbringing. The combination of outright falsehood, use of weasel words, and a heavy dose of condescension in this statement is nothing less than abhorrent.
Eretz Hakodesh in their advertisements also claim that they will receive a share of the $1 billion budget of the WZO, but do not explain how, as a small minority, they will get this money. Besides, since when are serious issurim for sale for money?
The presentation before Rav Shmuel Kamenetzky and then to R. Chaim Kaniefsky that Eretz Hakodesh is out to save the kodshey yisroel is consistent with this campaign of distortions and obfuscation. R. Chaim’s ruling that one should vote in the WZO elections would be understandable only if he was told that the salvation of kodshey yisroel depended upon it. Otherwise, why would he overrule the Gedolim before him, including his shver, Rav Elyashiv?
In summation, until a full and honest presentation of what Eretz Hakodesh is able to accomplish is given to R. Chaim and other gedoley hador, I continue to urge the public to refrain from voting in the WZO elections. If one has already voted he can nullify this by disputing his credit card charge.
With tefillos that Hashem enable us to continue to be a mamleches kohanim vegoy kadosh, and with deep respect,
Aharon FeldmanMarch 8, 2020 1:47 am at 1:47 am #1838449yehudayonaParticipant
Inquiring minds want to know if the NK in NKChossid612 stands for Neturei Karta. And which of the 613 mitzvos does he eschew?March 8, 2020 12:16 pm at 12:16 pm #1838564
And note that HaRav Aharon Feldman shlita is no super right winger. He’s the Rosh Yeshiva of the American out of town college-permitting Litvish Yeshiva.March 8, 2020 4:42 pm at 4:42 pm #1838629
@bsharg2: I’m not a US citizen so guess I can’t vote then. Even so, I encourage everyone who can vote to do so. All of the gedolim have told us to if we are able. I’m not a zionist, but it’s still important to protect the yeshivos there and the kotel from dangerous groups like WoW and the reform movements. Please, even if like me you don’t support Zionism, hold your nose and vote, as otherwise it’s going to get a lot worse.March 8, 2020 8:26 pm at 8:26 pm #1838631
The anti zionist progressives are also voting in the election, even though they aren’t zionists, because they want to get their reform representatives in to stop the settlements. If these people are able to hold their noses, then l’havdil elef havdalos by us too we need to just hold our noses and vote. Otherwise, we risk more money going to the Reform and even more bizyonos perpetrated by reform groups and the anti religious.March 16, 2020 10:47 am at 10:47 am #18403175ishParticipant
“then l’havdil elef havdalos by us too we need to just hold our noses and vote.”
This is like saying that if we could gain influence by joining the Catholic church we will just have to hold our noses. Tziyonis is a type of Heresy and to be a member of the WZO you have to affirm Tziyonus.March 16, 2020 10:59 am at 10:59 am #18403185ishParticipant
Regarding the difference between voting in Israel and in the WZO see here:March 16, 2020 2:40 pm at 2:40 pm #1840408
Are the results back yet for the WZO elections?March 23, 2020 11:11 pm at 11:11 pm #1842352Follow Daas TorahParticipant
They’re in and Joseph I hope ur not upset that the reform lost their majority
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