July 12, 2011 4:26 am at 4:26 am #597904
I’m taking a class in a secular college where I am the only frum (and by the looks of it, though you never know, only Jewish) girl. There are lots of goyim and a few frum boys. I do NOT talk to boys but it’s a calculus class and I need to ask someone my questions!
It’s not really an option to ask my professor.
Lets say I know the more mat’im thing would be to ask the goyish girl- would I be stepping over boundaries in tznius by asking the frum guy?July 12, 2011 4:32 am at 4:32 am #786230HealthParticipant
It depends on whether you can get the info you need from the Shiksa.July 12, 2011 5:14 am at 5:14 am #786231jewish unityParticipant
Although there wouldn’t be something specifically wrong with asking the guy, it’s probably better to ask the other girls. As an aside, I couldn’t tell if this is another question you have, but I think it’s davka a good thing to talk to the non-jewish girls. I think it’s low-risk high reward. There’s very little that can go wrong-obviously no relationship issues and i dont think they’ll be a bad influence b/c if they’re those kind of ppl I don’t think they’ll really want to associate with you. On the positive side, I think you can learn a lot from the different perspective on life they can offer, and I believe it’s a tremendous opportuinty for a Kiddush Hashem. Good luck with whatever you do!July 12, 2011 5:18 am at 5:18 am #786232ZeesKiteParticipant
Why can’t you ask us?July 12, 2011 5:25 am at 5:25 am #786233princess17Member
i think u should ask the goyishe girl over the frum guy forsure no question!!! thats my humble opinion u can take it or leave it!July 12, 2011 5:49 am at 5:49 am #786234
Tricky question, does your secular college have a calculus tutor? Most colleges supply free tutors to help out with the material.July 12, 2011 6:00 am at 6:00 am #786235bezalelParticipant
Why can’t you ask us?
You’re already taking calculus?July 12, 2011 9:17 am at 9:17 am #786236abcd2Participant
*Forget about you, one of those guys might also feel uncomfortable helping a girl 🙂
If you ask for help in front of others(the frum boys as a group, usually they hang out together) instead of just one on one you will not come across as it being a boy girl thing, or that your interested in one specific guy
however with your concerns.
It depends also on a) what a few questions are. math problems have to be explained usually and this could take some time a person will probably have to help you a bit before or after class Calculus usually cannot be mastered over a five minute class break.If you feel you need extensive help depending on how important your grade is you might want to get a tutor beside help from classmates.
b) if any of the frum guys are married, their wives might not appreciate them helping you long term one on one in such a casual atmosphere, while college is like a workplace it is much more casual.(requests of others in the workplace are an accepted norm,I assume in a workplace you would not hesitate to ask the best suited to help you on a project as long as you keep it professional and tznius)
*On the positive,I know of plenty of wonderful shidduchim (yeshivish btw)that came about as a result of being a small frum clique in college you never know if any of these guys have a friend or brother to redt to you.HatzlachaJuly 12, 2011 9:28 am at 9:28 am #786237DroidMember
Ask the goyish girls. But don’t become friends with them. And certainly don’t become influenced by them. But like everyone said, it’s still far better than asking a boy.July 12, 2011 11:45 am at 11:45 am #786238zahavasdadParticipant
I dont know what college you go to, but many have math labs with free tutors. They realize that calculus can be hard.
In truth once you get it Calculus really isnt that hard.July 12, 2011 12:16 pm at 12:16 pm #786239HaLeiViParticipant
A necessary question on a one time basis wouldn’t be an issue, but this could easily turn into much more than that. Do realize that you already have much in common with these boys, you are almost like their sister in face of the rest. I’m sure if or when a discussion comes up questioning certain foundations of our Emuna, you find yourself either meeting eyes or looking their direction to see how they take it. They might be looking out for you as well. Conversing with them would be like putting a match to a pile of white phospher.July 12, 2011 1:53 pm at 1:53 pm #786240
I would say ask the girls rather. It can get sticky when you start with the guys and there is no reason for that. Just my VERY humble opinionJuly 12, 2011 2:00 pm at 2:00 pm #786241
Bortez, I’m assuming you are a responsible and mature young woman. That being said, I think you would be doing nothing wrong asking the Jewish guy your questions. Here’s the catch: You obviously are not comfortable talking to guys. So, even if you DID ask the Jewish guy your questions, you would probably not gain much because you would be so flustered talking to him in the first place, it would be difficult to focus on calculus. Since it is essential that you know the material to do well in this course, you should ask whoever you would feel most comfortable talking to, so that you can gain the most information. I actually took a calculus course recently, so perhaps you can ask some questions here.
Health, I’m sure you didn’t mean it this way, but “shiksa” is considered to some a derogatory word.July 12, 2011 2:38 pm at 2:38 pm #786242
Middle- I agree with you that the fact that she is asking means she would be uncomfortable and therefor not act like her natural self. You would then fantasize….. its just not worth it. You dont want him to decide that he likes you…July 12, 2011 2:44 pm at 2:44 pm #786243Dr. PepperParticipant
Post your questions here.
Many of us would love to help you.July 12, 2011 2:49 pm at 2:49 pm #786244enlightenedjewMember
Talk to the guy. What’s the worst that’ll happen, marriage??July 12, 2011 2:57 pm at 2:57 pm #786245
adorable, that is true. But- I am a guy, and if I were in a class with a Jewish girl, I would actually at some point go over to her and ask her if she needs help with anything class-related, because I would want to help a fellow Jew. I don’t care if it’s a guy or a girl. It would NOT necessarily mean that I like her. I know some of you think this is wrong, but that’s what I would be comfortable doing.July 12, 2011 3:06 pm at 3:06 pm #786246Pac-ManMember
Middle: Do you go over to all the guys in your class too asking all of them if they need help; or do you only do so to the girls?July 12, 2011 3:14 pm at 3:14 pm #786247
Pac, yes, obviously. The guys, too. I said in my previous post- “I don’t care if it’s a guy or a girl.” I would want to help out a fellow Jew.July 12, 2011 3:19 pm at 3:19 pm #786248zahavasdadParticipant
My advice go to the best STUDENT in the class. You probably have a good idea who has the greatest grasp of the material in the class.
It might be the frum guy , it might be one of the non-jewish girls. It might be a non-jewish guy.
Its pointless to ask for help from someone who has no grasp of the material either.
Caveat, if the person who seems to have the best grasp is Asian (or any other foreigner) , make sure they speak good english and you can understand them. When I was in college, It was hard to ask some of the Asians for help because they spoke english with a very hard to understand accent.July 12, 2011 6:52 pm at 6:52 pm #786249
I could definitely get the info from a non-Jewish girl. I just wanted to know if it it would wrong to ask a boy if
a. i have zero interest in them and am asking purely for the sake of the test coming up..
b. they (as a group) and I, are as far as i can tell, the smartest in the class.
Even I’m wrong about that,
c. There’s a comfort thing in asking a Jew rather than a goy Especially when I distinctly stick out as a religious girl, I’m sort of on my own.
There is a math lab on campus, but I volunteer during the day and come in to school with just enough time to make it in time for class.
abcd2- None of the frum young men are married, actually i think a few are younger (as in, 17, 18) than me! (there goes the “just marry them!” idea)
haleivi- you must be joking- hashkafic discussions in calculus class?! also, i try to make sure to sit in a place where eye contact is impossible during class
middlepath- i appreciate that, in that it’s terribly inconveniant that so many people assume that asking a question/volunteering help- automatically means you “like” him/her- which is SO not the case!
As soon as I have my notebook on me, i’ll post my question- thanks!July 12, 2011 7:07 pm at 7:07 pm #786250wanderingchanaParticipant
Wish I could help. Good for you for trying. I can’t imagine wanting to take math…July 12, 2011 10:40 pm at 10:40 pm #786251
bortezomib, If you’re volunteering (as opposed to a committed job), would it be possible to take off 1 day to the see the tutor? It would be much easier than dealing with one of the other awkward possibilities.July 12, 2011 11:30 pm at 11:30 pm #786252hudiParticipant
Yes it would be overstepping the boundaries of tznius to ask the frum guys.
Pick a refined non-jewish girl (if you have those). You can identify the refined ones by their speech (they do not curse) and their dress (no low necklines).
Non-jews are not a different species of people, as I was shocked to find when I started college, straight out of seminary. They have personalities just like we do, and you might even identify with them and even (shocker) like them. However, it’s still important to keep a healthy distance.July 13, 2011 12:42 am at 12:42 am #786253
Hudi, I see that you are careful and motivated with hilchos tznius 🙂July 13, 2011 1:05 am at 1:05 am #786254Pac-ManMember
Non-jews are not a different species of people, as I was shocked to find when I started college, straight out of seminary. They have personalities just like we do, and you might even identify with them and even (shocker) like them. However, it’s still important to keep a healthy distance.
The Gemara suggests that the Shichvas Zera of a Nochri has different properties from that of a Jew, since the Nochri eats non-Kosher foods and is physically affected by his diet. The Chasam Sofer (Teshuvos YD 175) writes that this Gemara is relevant in practice. He rules that we cannot assume that a medical treatment that was tested successfully on a Nochri will also be successful on a Jew. Rav Elyashev shlita pointed out that the Chasam Sofer writes that the physical characteristics of a Yid are different than a Goy, and that what applies to one may not apply to the other. Therefore, said Rav Elyashev, how much more so regarding the mind/soul?July 13, 2011 1:16 am at 1:16 am #786255
Turns out I have a bigger aversion to going over to a frum boy than I thought I would, (which sort of ends my dilemma), so I ended up asking a non-Jewish girl. (This is not my first semester of college, so I am aware of the issue of boundaries…)
Another Name- good idea, I plan on doing that.July 13, 2011 1:32 am at 1:32 am #786256
bortezomib, I’m glad it worked out in the end. Good luck with calculus!July 13, 2011 3:14 am at 3:14 am #786258hudiParticipant
Another name – The smily face is enough for me.July 13, 2011 3:42 am at 3:42 am #786259
hudi, I meant it 🙂July 13, 2011 4:14 am at 4:14 am #786260charliehallParticipant
“It’s not really an option to ask my professor.”
My advice as a professor: Ask the professor. Do not let up until he can explain things so you can understand them. We professors are paid to answer these kinds of questions.
I will add that I learned the hard way that pestering professors with questions was essential to academic success.July 13, 2011 4:16 am at 4:16 am #786261charliehallParticipant
” He rules that we cannot assume that a medical treatment that was tested successfully on a Nochri will also be successful on a Jew.”
Notwithstanding the Chatam Sofer, there are no treatments that I am aware of that work differently on Jews and non-Jews.July 13, 2011 9:13 am at 9:13 am #786263600 Kilo BearMember
Notwithstanding the Chatam Sofer, there are no treatments that I am aware of that work differently on Jews and non-Jews.
There are, however, treatments that work differently on members of different races. I forgot which one in particular works differently for people of African origin – I think it is a blood pressure medication.
It would not surprise me that as we get further and further into genetic based treatments, there will be some that will work differently on many Jews versus many non-Jews based on our shared DNA.July 13, 2011 9:38 am at 9:38 am #786264Bob SquappstienParticipant
Ask your rabbi.July 13, 2011 9:04 pm at 9:04 pm #786265
bob- you are way too practical! LOL dont think this site is for you…July 17, 2011 4:54 am at 4:54 am #786266individualMember
Just a question bortez- are you planning on only working in the frum world after college? What will you do if you have to interact with a non-Jewish co-worker? Or deal with a client or vender? I know it’s a little bit different in college (I was assigned non-Jewish partners in college for multiple projects and I notice that some of them were less responsible), but not that different. It is good preparation for what is afterwards, it helps you establish those boundries that you need in the outside world.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.