November 24, 2015 4:00 pm at 4:00 pm #616713
Say you have an item, like beer or gin, that doesn’t require a hechsher, but one company chooses to get one anyway. Now, say the hechsher they voluntarily get is a non-trusted one like triangle K or tablet K. Would you buy it? Or would you refrain from buying it even if you would normally buy it without a hechsher?November 24, 2015 4:38 pm at 4:38 pm #1114188
Anyways, why is this even a question if you use of without any hecsher?November 24, 2015 4:46 pm at 4:46 pm #1114189MDGParticipant
What is the problem?
Is it supporting a non-reliable hechsher?
Is it Maarit Eyin by having a non-reliable hechsher in the house people may be misled?
Or is there another problem?November 24, 2015 5:48 pm at 5:48 pm #1114190
I’m not saying there is a problem. I know my answer, I just wanted to see what other people say.
The question comes down to whether avoiding certain hechshers is actually a matter of trust of kashrus, or whether it’s a wholesale boycott of the organizations. Eg. Triangle K being too lenient when it comes to meat or wine does not necessarily have any weight on their ability to certify potato chips, but we don’t nit pick (at least most people I know don’t). So, yes, as MDG said, the problems would be: patronizing a non-reliable hechsher, and possibly causing unknowledgeable house-guests to think it is reliable.
My answer is that I would still use the item in question, but I could see why people the answer the other way and I still think it’s a good question.November 24, 2015 6:12 pm at 6:12 pm #1114191apushatayidParticipant
“one company chooses to get one anyway”
I would look into why they chose to get one anyway. Companies dont pay for something they dont need. It could be they are adding ingredients that make it an exception to the general rule of “not needing”, or perhaps the manufacturing or bottling process is the cause of a required hechsher, in which case the one they chose is not reliable for you. On the other hand, they might think it “hip” to have a hechsher on the bottle as a marketing ploy to indicate things like “quality” in which case who cares what they put on the bottle label. If this is a serious question, give it the consideration something as serious as kashrus deserves. If you are merely draying a kup then have fun.November 24, 2015 6:20 pm at 6:20 pm #1114192
Eg. Triangle K being too lenient when it comes to meat or wine does not necessarily have any weight on their ability to certify potato chips
I agree that some products are less problematic than others, but I think there is a relationship between reliability for meat and potato chips. There have been potato chips produced on the same equipment as pork rinds, with a “hechsher”.November 24, 2015 6:23 pm at 6:23 pm #1114193
Companies dont pay for something they dont need. It could be they are adding ingredients that make it an exception to the general rule of “not needing”, or perhaps the manufacturing or bottling process is the cause of a required hechsher
I don’t think one needs to be choshesh for that on a product which doesn’t require a hechsher. The kashrus symbol is a marketing tool.November 24, 2015 6:23 pm at 6:23 pm #1114194Torah613TorahParticipant
It would make me check again if something changed that required a hechsher.November 24, 2015 6:32 pm at 6:32 pm #1114195
I drink Vintage seltzer. Is there anyone here that wouldn’t, but would drink seltzer with no hechsher (unflavored is said to not require one)?November 24, 2015 6:43 pm at 6:43 pm #1114196
Sam Adams beer has a Star K. As far as I know, it’s entirely unnecessary for them to have it (unless there are some people who hold differently). I think it is as DaasYochid says, a marketing tool. The question is a serious one in the sense that I’m not just trolling. However, it’s not a serious question to be put into practice (I already have my way of dealing with it); if it were, this thread would consist of 50 thousand posters saying “Ask your LOR!!!”.
DY: Wow I did not know that about the pork rinds story. My initial assumption on the matter, (which is perhaps still partially correct) was that there are probably lists of items from unreliable hechshers that are problem items, and others that are technically not. But, to keep people from accidentally transgressing, the practice is to just avoid all items from such hechshers. Although, it seems like most of us here agree that that doesn’t include items that wouldn’t even need supervision.November 24, 2015 7:32 pm at 7:32 pm #1114197apushatayidParticipant
“As far as I know, it’s entirely unnecessary for them to have it”
why do you assume this? they brew a number of “craft” and “small batch” specialty beers too. why not see what the star k themselves has to say about kashrus of beer. http://www.star-k.org/articles/kashrus-kurrents/2183/beer-halacha-clarifying-the-kashrus-of-beer/November 24, 2015 7:40 pm at 7:40 pm #1114198
I wouldn’t call a hechsher on beer “entirely unnecessary”. There are some potentially problematic additives which could be (and in some microbreweries, have been) added. True, the agencies all say that domestic unflavored beers from large breweries are fine, and they are right; achazukei issur lo mechazkinan. However, since things can and do change, I think it’s a maaleh to have a hechsher.November 24, 2015 8:13 pm at 8:13 pm #1114199theprof1Participant
beers in america made do require a hechsher because they often add a treif ingredient to make a head. european brewers never add anything to their beers. its against the law to put in anything besides malt and hops and water.November 24, 2015 8:35 pm at 8:35 pm #1114200
“why not see what the star k themselves has to say about kashrus of beer.” Most of their conclusion seems to corroborate my view. I never denied that some people might prefer a hechsher, but the common practice around me seems to be the lenient opinion. Anyhow, the topic was not specifically about beer or star K. DaasYochid’s vintage seltzer example is a perfect example of the intended question.November 24, 2015 8:40 pm at 8:40 pm #1114201popa_bar_abbaParticipant
beers in america made do require a hechsher because they often add a treif ingredient to make a head.
Which ingredient is that? I’m fairly certain that you are either (i) wrong, or (ii) saying something as fact that is actually a minority opinion.
european brewers never add anything to their beers. its against the law to put in anything besides malt and hops and water.
And yeast. And a bazillion other additivis, like isinglas.November 24, 2015 8:43 pm at 8:43 pm #1114202
I think (ii).November 26, 2015 2:49 am at 2:49 am #1114203☢️ Rand0m3x 🎲Participant
(Kosher is a serious marketing point, in case anyone doesn’t know.)November 29, 2015 10:17 pm at 10:17 pm #1114204
“(Kosher is a serious marketing point, in case anyone doesn’t know.)”
Even for water?
Interesting thing happened after I made this thread. There was a beer I had which lacked a hechsher, normally no big deal. But, this brand always has hechshers otherwise. Should I be concerned? Ironically, if none of this brand’s beers had hechshers, I wouldn’t be thinking twice, but why all but this one?
P.S. again, this isn’t a true halachic question, so everyone hold your horses on the “ASK YOUR RAV!!!” stuff.November 29, 2015 10:21 pm at 10:21 pm #1114205
Interestingly, when researching this I found this: http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/the-incredible-star-k
Small world. Guess I’m not the first person in the CR to have noticed this.
Neville = Popa? Plot twist.November 29, 2015 10:46 pm at 10:46 pm #1114206
Is there a good reason for bottled water to have a hechsher?November 29, 2015 10:47 pm at 10:47 pm #1114207zahavasdadParticipant
Where have you heard the Domestic beers need a Hechsheer?
I dont think Budweiser or Michelob has one and Ive seen them at Rebbes Tishes (and I mean real Yeshivish ones, not a YCT one)December 1, 2015 8:15 pm at 8:15 pm #1114208GoldilocksParticipant
Joseph, I have heard that there is a reason for bottled water to have a hechsher. Companies sometimes process the water on machinery that is also used to process milk.December 1, 2015 8:37 pm at 8:37 pm #1114209
Does that mean that it might be preferable for one to avoid water without a hechsher?December 1, 2015 9:20 pm at 9:20 pm #1114210cherrybimParticipant
“Triangle K being too lenient when it comes to meat or wine”
While all national hashgachos have had major kashrus mishaps, this has never happened to the Triangle K; and no one has ever been able to trip them up. Enough with the motzi shem rah!
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