December 18, 2013 7:50 pm at 7:50 pm #995287
It was specifically about him being harmless at the moment”
But yet, he IS like an out of control vehicle, which is unpredictable in where and when it will strike. Ted Bundy looked not only harmless to his innumerable innocent victims, but actually ATTRACTIVE and sometimes even helpless. Let’s stop talking naarishkeit and get real.
I get that there are some liberal thinkers among us. Perhaps they believe in rehabilitation of these sociopaths also.December 18, 2013 7:54 pm at 7:54 pm #995288
Actually, if you’re a woman it’s more likely that you’re a potential victim for certain types of serial killers and therefore more justified in killing him first. It depends a lot on what type of serial killer this is and how many others are there- if it’s in middle of the night on a quiet street…December 18, 2013 8:00 pm at 8:00 pm #995289
You must know everything.
WIY: I did not say that! Please do not put words in my mouth. I just don’t encounter weird circumstances where a call or email to a rabbi is necessary.December 18, 2013 8:01 pm at 8:01 pm #995290
(women rely)… more on intuition “
Interesting that you point that out. That is an advantage that Hashem gave to women. It is why Hashem told Avraham Avinu to listen to all that his wife told him to do, because Sara’s Binah Yesaira told her that Yishmael would always be a danger to Yitzchak. It is why Rivka encouraged Yaakov to pretend to be Esav. She knew intuitively that Esav could never be the father of klal Yisroel, even as Yitzchal logically expected him to be, because “tzayid b’feev.” It is the reason that Rochel sought to hide her father’s terafim, because they were detrimental to the spirituality and kedusha of her family.
Women have throughout our history, proven to have the right instincts and intuition. It is because usually, women are better at reading subtle facial and other physical signals that people give off unconsciously, and at making quick decisions based on those signals. Men do NOT typically have this ability to the same degree, specifically BECAUSE they are more linear and so-called logical in their thinking.December 18, 2013 8:02 pm at 8:02 pm #995291
I think we have discussed this plenty, already. And Gamanit, I agree.December 18, 2013 8:52 pm at 8:52 pm #995292
Oomis, if logic doesn’t take the place of intuition, intuition doesn’t take the place of logic, either. You can’t have it both ways.
As I pointed out, even Nevua and Ruach Hakodesh can’t Pasken.
Sarah Imeinu said that from Nevua, as Chazal tell us. Rivka Imeinu also did that from Ruach Hakodesh, as Chazal tell us. Intuition is good to say something seems amiss although you can’t put your finger on it. It does not apply to making a decision about who is fit for starting Klal Yisroel.December 18, 2013 9:20 pm at 9:20 pm #995293
You can ask a Rabbi anything. It doesn’t require weird circumstances. It can be simply what Bracha is this food (instead of making the wrong Bracha on it….)
For example do you know the bracha for (without googling)
sushiDecember 18, 2013 9:29 pm at 9:29 pm #995294
WIY- why no googling? Instead of calling, she can google.December 18, 2013 9:43 pm at 9:43 pm #995295
For certain simpler things like these probably.December 18, 2013 9:43 pm at 9:43 pm #995296
WIY – No need for me to know all that. See:December 18, 2013 9:44 pm at 9:44 pm #995297
Yeah mods sushi is a tough one as well. Especially considering its one of the 5 main food groups 😉December 18, 2013 9:48 pm at 9:48 pm #995298
Well its just one small example. I dont want to put you on the spot but theres really a lot to know just for day to day life and things always come up if you pay attention.December 18, 2013 9:48 pm at 9:48 pm #995299Little FroggieMember
Chazal say she Avraham was a “tofel” to her regarding Nevuah, not because of her own intuition. She definitely used her womanly qualities while building her home, and that of klal Yisroel, but that’s not why she was superior to Avraham Avinu regarding Nevua.
Rochel hid her father’s terafim to wean him of avodah zara, as chazal say, not for her family’s sake. They were about to sneak out.December 18, 2013 9:49 pm at 9:49 pm #995300
WIY- so as long as she doesn’t run into anything too complicated she’s fine. As far as hilchos brachos are concerned by the way, girls tend to learn this better than boys. We memorized the brachos for over 200 foods before we turned ten. I still remember most, even ones I never ate.December 18, 2013 10:15 pm at 10:15 pm #995301
I don’t eat raspberries or blueberries (tolaim).
I certainly hope papaya is Hoadama; otherwise (i.e. if it’s considered a fruit) there’s an orla issue.
I used to have sushi on occasion, but for some reason, the thought of it has recently nauseated me.December 18, 2013 11:21 pm at 11:21 pm #995302
You can text to 612-BROCHOS (276-2467) with any food item and you get an instant automatic response.December 18, 2013 11:41 pm at 11:41 pm #995303
HaLeiVi, which posek oversees this?December 19, 2013 12:32 am at 12:32 am #995304
They tell you the source. It comes off certain Kuntraysim.December 19, 2013 12:43 am at 12:43 am #995305
Rochel hid her father’s terafim to wean him of avodah zara, as chazal say, not for her family’s sake. They were about to sneak out. “
FTR, her father WAS her family, and she wanted to stop him from a life of spiritual depravity. I know she was about to leave. That was the point of her taking the idols away, so he would no longer have them. What is being referred to as nevuah, WAS nevuah, but do women not similarly have experiences that border on being “nevuah” today, because they have a better intuition and instinct than men?
I don’t know about any other women who post here, but I have personally experienced that intuition MANY times, B”H.December 19, 2013 12:46 am at 12:46 am #995306
We’re getting so off-topic. So Who is for killing the killer? Raise your hands, and let’s move on.December 19, 2013 1:08 am at 1:08 am #995307
Oomis, we were talking about hilchos brachos. Please don’t change the subject.
🙂December 19, 2013 2:54 am at 2:54 am #995308
DY, what bracha are we supposed to make when confronted with a cereal killer (borei minei mezonos???) 🙂December 19, 2013 3:13 am at 3:13 am #995309
Text it to 612BROCHOS, let’s see what they say (probably hoadomo because the ikkar is the corn).December 19, 2013 4:52 am at 4:52 am #995310
Excerpted from the star K brachos for breakfast page:December 19, 2013 4:53 am at 4:53 am #995311December 19, 2013 5:33 am at 5:33 am #995312
I wasn’t talking about corn flakes, I was talking about oomis’ joke.December 19, 2013 2:43 pm at 2:43 pm #995313
Well its just one small example. I dont want to put you on the spot but theres really a lot to know just for day to day life and things always come up if you pay attention.
WIY – My comment yesterday was a bit facetious. I know things are always coming up, but they’re nothing too complex that my father or brother wouldn’t be able to help me with.
oomis – You sound like someone after my own heart. I’m all for killing the killer, as long as it’s not a really gruesome death, like I don’t think I could stab someone, but I think I could easily do a neat bullet straight to the heart.December 19, 2013 4:14 pm at 4:14 pm #995314
I wouldn’t want to stab someone EVER. It IS too gruesome. BTW, I believe that the injunction about shedding blood is why the church for centuries preferred to execute people by hanging or burning them to death, as no actual blood was technically being shed, so they could feel good about themselves during the execution. Just a little factoid, of no use to anyone. I feel better now…December 19, 2013 4:43 pm at 4:43 pm #995315
They need people like u in the army.December 19, 2013 4:49 pm at 4:49 pm #995316
WIY – lol. Yup, up there by the front lines. And I happen to have some experience handling guns, so your idea isn’t that far off. I’m actually pretty good at shooting moving targets 😉 Maybe in my next life…December 19, 2013 5:07 pm at 5:07 pm #995317
Text it to 612BROCHOS, let’s see what they say (probably hoadomo because the ikkar is the corn). “
DY I TOTALLY got that. I have been known to be quite corny, in fact, I am notorious for that! Cerealously!December 19, 2013 5:11 pm at 5:11 pm #995318
it may be a whole grain product and the brocha is Hoadama, or it may be ground and the brocha is Shehakol. To determine the brocha, one must look carefully at various flakes. If they have jagged edges, the surface of the flake is bumpy, it comes from a grit22 and the brocha is Hoadama. If the corn flakes are relatively smooth (very small bumps), and the edges are smoother, the corn flakes are from a more uniform pellet (made from corn flour) and the brocha is Shehakol. “
On a serious note, thank you for psoting this. It is really good information. Maybe it’s just easier to wash and make hamotzi.December 19, 2013 5:20 pm at 5:20 pm #995319
You have been to a shooting range? (video games don’t count lol)December 19, 2013 5:51 pm at 5:51 pm #995320
oomis – lol 😉
WIY – Yup, a few years back. I thought it was so cool that they didn’t ask me if I have suicidal thoughts before handing me the gun. But the attendant assigned to my group was too on top of everyone so I couldn’t try any shtick.December 19, 2013 6:27 pm at 6:27 pm #995321
Well I hope you have gotten past those thoughts…December 19, 2013 7:45 pm at 7:45 pm #995323
No i don’t entertain such thoughts anymore b”h.December 22, 2013 6:43 am at 6:43 am #995324
Getting back to the original topic, I don’t think I’d ever kill anyone. Because then the guy wouldn’t have the opportunity to do teshuva… So maybe I’d give him a few minutes to repent, then I’d kill him. Its a great question. Got me thinking 🙂December 22, 2013 3:16 pm at 3:16 pm #995325
It’s quite rare for a serial killer to do teshuvaDecember 22, 2013 4:06 pm at 4:06 pm #995326
Fkelly, how would we know? Although if he’s halachically a rodef, it’s not our business to worry about that.December 22, 2013 11:12 pm at 11:12 pm #995328
So maybe I’d give him a few minutes to repent, then I’d kill him.
Grand idea, but how do you plan on letting him know that you’re giving him this chance? Did you plan your speech already?December 23, 2013 4:52 pm at 4:52 pm #995329
once innocent – To add on to my question – are you one of those that truly believe that every person is intrinsically a good person and means well? I’m just trying to understand why you would give him a second chance…December 23, 2013 10:32 pm at 10:32 pm #995330
In response to your second question, yes.
I dunno exactly how I would do it. Maybe like give him a whole mussar shiur and then kill him…? It sounded better when I was thinking of it…December 24, 2013 1:03 am at 1:03 am #995331
Once innocent- Really? Have you never heard of psychopaths? Your average serial killer is most probably a psychopath with almost no chance of doing teshuva because he doesn’t feel any emotion other than pleasure when he’s killing his victims. So your mussar schmooze isn’t going to wake something up in him and make him see the light. Plus if he’s a psychopath he’s probably an expert manipulator and would convince you that he’s seen the error of his ways and repented. Then you’d be sorry you didn’t kill him and prevent the death of his next innocent victim.December 24, 2013 1:54 am at 1:54 am #995333
That’s true, I suppose.
Like I said, sounded better in my mind.
I hereby concede defeat to the more level headed members of the cr!December 24, 2013 2:25 am at 2:25 am #995334December 24, 2013 2:55 am at 2:55 am #995335
Thanks for the welcome 🙂
Onto other topics- Aww… That hurts the inner child in me. I want to think of people as humane and sweet! It makes the world less scary. And what happened to the “Anyone can do teshuva no matter how far they’ve fallen blahblahblahblah” speech that my teachers are always reciting? (Side bar-What IS up with that? Do teachers get bonuses for every time they say stuff like that?)December 24, 2013 4:55 am at 4:55 am #995337
Yes they definitely do! They probably have a log book to see who can say it the most!
Well you’d hope that most people do have a spark of humanity. But I don’t know that every person really can do teshuva. I mean if someone can’t feel emotion than they can’t have the teshuva feeling.December 24, 2013 2:16 pm at 2:16 pm #995339
I think we all would like to believe there is goodness in everyone. Esav had SOME goodness in him in Kibud Av, but Halacha is that Esav sonei es Yaakov. I am sure that Adolph Hitler was all warm and fuzzy with Eva Braun, but if he were standing in front of me today…
Some people cannot be redeemed. Drug dealers on the street,addicts, pimps,gang members, these are members of society who do what they do because they WANT to.
Serial killers WANT to murder. It gives them pleasure to do so, and they often take trophies from their victims, so they can relive that pleasure over and over. There is no saving them. Only STOPPING them. Would you ask a shark to do teshuvah as it eat a swimmer in the ocean? It does that because THAT’S what it does! A psychopath or sociopath cannot do anything else. And for those who argue, keep them locked up, give them meds… well they can get pretty smart at NOT taking their meds, and why endanger other people around them, even if they ARE locked up. Can we say “Hannibal Lecter?” (Yes, I KNOW he is a fictional character, but there are such people in the world, Jeffrey Dahmer comes to mind). And who is to say they will STAY locked up????December 24, 2013 2:33 pm at 2:33 pm #995340
once innocent – Regarding doing teshuva I believe a bit differently. Every Jew intrinsically loves Hashem and believes in Him. People may deny this and act like they don’t, but a small part of them does not and will not forget the truth. They may have suppressed this because of the pain they were in and now they say it doesn’t mean anything to them. One day these suppressed feelings will come forth from under those walls and they’ll finally feel it and start living by it. But again, as fkelly said, if the person can’t feel emotions anymore it is a lost case. You will hear this from teachers all the time because the fact that you’re in a bais Yaakov school sort of proves that you’re not a lost case.December 24, 2013 3:58 pm at 3:58 pm #995341
It’s not YOUR job to worry about his teshuva. It’s your job to worry about protecting yourself… He can do teshuva the second he has between the bullet hitting him and death
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