WWYD: Stolen Hagbaha
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- This topic has 27 replies, 15 voices, and was last updated 1 year, 3 months ago by Mayan_Dvash.
February 7, 2022 3:24 pm at 3:24 pm #2058299
The following happened in shul recently:
The gabbai asked me to do hagbaha, but by the time I got up to the bimah, the bochur who was asked to do gelilah was standing there in position to do hagbaha.
What would you do? Would you make a big stink about it, or would you just suck it up and bear the embarrassment of doing gelilah?February 7, 2022 3:39 pm at 3:39 pm #2058320
Next time run faster, rather than waiting to finish chewing the gum.February 7, 2022 3:56 pm at 3:56 pm #2058334commonsaychelParticipant
Agree with AAQ, now on to the next irrelevant topicFebruary 7, 2022 4:14 pm at 4:14 pm #2058344
Maybe currently, children do gelilla because they cannot lift the Sefer Torah. I don’t think it is an embarrassment as in the olden times הגולל נוטל שכר כולן, Megilla 32, gelilah was greater than everything. Dressing the Sefer Torah is a great zechus.February 7, 2022 4:43 pm at 4:43 pm #2058348
It is an embarrassment:February 7, 2022 4:43 pm at 4:43 pm #2058350ujmParticipant
In our Shul, popa_bar_abba is always our designated Gelila mechubed; as such, such a situation couldn’t occur.February 7, 2022 4:58 pm at 4:58 pm #2058366
Give the bocur a potch and let him know that such behavior from a pitzel will not be tolerated.. The Gabbai should immediately have sprung into action but I’ve noticed in a post-Covid world, reactions times have slowed.February 7, 2022 5:01 pm at 5:01 pm #2058354CTLAWYERParticipant
What embarrassment, they are both honors.
Did you pay for the honor of Hagbah that morning? If not, move on.
If it makes you feel better, discuss what happened with the Gabbai, so it doesn’t happen again,
Lastly, follow the methodology of modern synagogues, spend a few dollars and buy a set of honors cards for the Gabbai to hand out. They list the honor: Cohen, Levi, Slishi, etc., Maftir, Hagbah (or 1 and 2), Gelillah (or 1 and 2). The holder of the honor card comes up to the bima and hands the card to the Gabbai or puts it on the Shulchan. Everyone knows which honor the man is getting.
It is common to hand the cards for honors for a Bar Mitzvah or Wedding family to the father who distributes them to his guests (who may not be known to the Gabbai).February 7, 2022 5:54 pm at 5:54 pm #2058396
“Lastly, follow the methodology of modern synagogues, spend a few dollars and buy a set of honors cards for the Gabbai to hand out…”
Several years ago, the gabbai of our shul, in a moment of mindless extravagance, splurged on such a set of silver plated “kavod cards”….needless to say, within less than a month, we were down to 4 aliyahs and gelilah. After an emergency meeting of the Board, the gabbai was given an ultimatum to go back to the old system or alternatively purchase multiple sets of throwaway printed paper cards.February 7, 2022 5:54 pm at 5:54 pm #2058397
CTlawyer, this card system is not secure enough and will be forged/gamed/hacked. There should be a two-factor identification system. Maybe mail a password home before shabbos.
R Salanter had a similar situation when he had a chiyuv and someone else had a lesser chiyuv. He insisted on the other guy going first, commenting “my mother deserves I do this mitzva in her honor”February 7, 2022 6:14 pm at 6:14 pm #2058405ParticipantParticipant
You’re sure the gabbai asked you to do hagba and not glila?February 7, 2022 6:18 pm at 6:18 pm #2058408
Yea. Why would he ask me to do gelilah?February 7, 2022 6:32 pm at 6:32 pm #2058410OrangeCountyChapperParticipant
You shall not covet your neighbor’s house… nor anything that is your neighbor’s. This principle undoubtedly extends to honors. Making a big stink would be more shameful than the intentional stealing of an “honor”. Hashem will value your respective contributions accurately. However if the thief is a repeat offender I would offer him a strong mussar schmooze. And if that were the case I would hope the Gabbai counsels the offender accordingly before offering him another honor.February 7, 2022 6:57 pm at 6:57 pm #2058412☕️coffee addictParticipant
That happened to me once (and I bought hagba) I was wondering if I had to pay because I didn’t get the kibud, in the end I did anywaysFebruary 7, 2022 6:57 pm at 6:57 pm #2058413yungermanSParticipant
Actually gelila is more chashuv then anything during krias hatorah including getting an aliya so in truth i think you got the better jobFebruary 7, 2022 6:59 pm at 6:59 pm #2058416
That’s just what they tell people to convince them to do gelilah. Otherwise no one would do it.February 7, 2022 7:13 pm at 7:13 pm #2058419
Shlishi and Shishi always trump either hagbah/gelilah. The embarrassment to an ehrlich Yid would only be exceeded by being asked to come up to the bimah and replace the shaliach tzibur and sing Ein Kelokeini after musaf.February 7, 2022 7:37 pm at 7:37 pm #2058421
We always sing Ein Kelokeinu as a commemoration to someone who passed away relatively young and used to sing it.February 7, 2022 9:42 pm at 9:42 pm #2058435
Gabbai to the newcomer: Kohen? no, Levi? no, shishi.
I was once asked by a gabbai mumbling: kohen? Me:no. levi? no. isroel?
He probably did this automatically just to finish the list, but the question sounds offensive – is he suspecting me of being a mamzer or an akum?!
So, I answered “no” just to look at his face. Hope he was more careful after this.February 7, 2022 10:28 pm at 10:28 pm #2058446☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
in the olden times הגולל נוטל שכר כולן, Megilla 32, gelilah was greater than everything.
That’s because the person who did Hagbah rolled the Torah.February 7, 2022 10:28 pm at 10:28 pm #2058447☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
kohen? Meno. levi?
I didn’t know Meno was its own categoryFebruary 7, 2022 11:42 pm at 11:42 pm #2058457
DY, doesn’t that mean that gelilah is greater who currently roles the Torah?February 8, 2022 6:37 am at 6:37 am #2058538rightwriterParticipant
Tell him you want a do overFebruary 8, 2022 10:05 am at 10:05 am #2058606
The Magbia also rolls it. The one we call Golel mothers him and covers it.February 8, 2022 10:14 am at 10:14 am #2058608
Why in the world would you make a stink about it?? Either grow up and go on or work on would to be Maavir al midosav or maybe realize that everything is actually from Hashem and Litova. Which ever path young want to go now, do what you really know is the right thing. No need to elaborate.February 8, 2022 12:11 pm at 12:11 pm #2058676
Please excuse my typosFebruary 8, 2022 2:20 pm at 2:20 pm #2058705
okay2 > everything is actually from Hashem and Litova.
a good point. Maybe Meno did not notice that he did an aveira that morning, maybe slammed the door and woke up a widow on the way to the minyan and she is sad remembering her husband going to shul early – so maybe you were destined to stumble in your hagbah that morning.February 17, 2022 5:11 pm at 5:11 pm #2061558Mayan_DvashParticipant
Did he also forget to give you a lollipop of the color you wanted?
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